Need help with fighter's thought processes. Is it a guessing game?

[Deadite]

I need help, as of now I'm scared of falling into the habit of brainless button meshing in a fighting game, I always wanted to tread into the map on how to play fighter properly, so here I am, I'm here to face the problems that's been hurting me.


The game I'd like to play is Injustice. I watched a lot of gameplay on Youtube (Both MK & Injustice). I know some fighter terms like Punish, Parry, strings, meterburn, interrupt, but my issue is basic, so my knowledge on these terms are limited.

In combat decision, do I guess on what move my opponent's gonna make, or can I actually see the beginning of a move, and should I train my reflex so I can catch them? Should I be looking for the opponent's gaps, like before and after an attack where they've no time to block?

Do I have to think a few steps ahead of my opponent's moves, like in chess? I need to know what I should be thinking, besides memorizing combos, I feel like I'm blind as a bat.

I find myself asking questions, like "Why did he know when to block?" "Parry? Do I guess that my opponent's gonna attack?" Also, I'm having trouble figuring out whose character I should be looking at in a match up.

Please, I'd really appreciate any help I can get.

 

[Juggs]

The first thing you should do is read David Sirlin's book on Playing To Win: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw

 

[Pakman]

A lot of it comes down to knowing exactly what your opponent can do at certain ranges. Lets say he's full screen - he's likely to do one of the following: projectile, dash towards you , jump towards or some kind of travelling move in order to get close to you (and do some damage). In those cases you can visually see what he is doing and can react accordingly.

But if he's up close and is waiting for you he's playing the neural game: waiting for you to press a button and strike instantly. There will be periods of time in matches where this will happen and if he is not budging then you throw a feint/bait to bait his twitch reaction.

Think of it as high speed chess except as soon as you press a button (touch a piece) you have to play it. Likewise there are down times when neither of you are in range to attack each other so you use feints or baits - heck sometimes you can risk it for a biscuit and dive right in and start the fight yourself.

Hope that made a little bit of sense

 

[MashPotatoTower]

I recommend looking up some Evo gameplay footage of any game. Usually they will have really good commentary that can help you get in the mind set.

Knowing what characters are capable of and learning what to do when you need it all comes from experience. Just like getting good at anything

 

[Deadite]

I recommend looking up some Evo gameplay footage of any game. Usually they will have really good commentary that can help you get in the mind set.

Knowing what characters are capable of and learning what to do when you need it all comes from experience. Just like getting good at anything

But the questions I'm asking is very basic. When to dodge, when to block, why is there an exachnage of quick, small punches between 2 players?

I know EVO gameplay covers a lot of things in this category, but it never explain the very question I asked. I need this straighten out otherwise I'm driving myself mad, I've been running away from fighter games since I was a kid because I never got this figured out.

A lot of it comes down to knowing exactly what your opponent can do at certain ranges. Lets say he's full screen - he's likely to do one of the following: projectile, dash towards you , jump towards or some kind of travelling move in order to get close to you (and do some damage). In those cases you can visually see what he is doing and can react accordingly.

But if he's up close and is waiting for you he's playing the neural game: waiting for you to press a button and strike instantly. There will be periods of time in matches where this will happen and if he is not budging then you throw a feint/bait to bait his twitch reaction.

Think of it as high speed chess except as soon as you press a button (touch a piece) you have to play it. Likewise there are down times when neither of you are in range to attack each other so you use feints or baits - heck sometimes you can risk it for a biscuit and dive right in and start the fight yourself.

Hope that made a little bit of sense

Yes it does, you gave me a lot to think about.

 

[BigMilk]

Think of it as a real battle w you vs someone else. Why would you block? If you think you have to take a hit then block. Why dodge? of you think you can evade a hit then dodge and capitalize on them missing. Some things you can react to and others you can't, so you have to change accordingly. Thats where experience comes in. Good players make reads, which is not only thinking during battle but guessing what your opponent will do. And most players look at multiple things during battle, their opponents moreso than themselves. You will automatically do that more the more comfortable you get at the game.

 

[Soul Bound X]

it kind of is a guessing game. you try to out smart your opponent and read them based on their actions and how they play. you'll start getting it once you have more experience

 

[Seapeople]

A lot just comes from getting comfortable with the game. Learning the basics of frame data is also huge because that's how you can figure out what your best, fastest, and safest attacks are. That's why you see people using a lot of pokes up close because they're generally your fastest attacks and help create some space. However, in MK if you block a poke you can immediately poke back, so the up close game can get very in depth.

UsedForGlue made a video a while ago that explains the concept of mix ups. There's tons of ways to mix someone up but this should give you a good idea:

Also if you haven't checked it out already, the Fundamentals of Injustice thread is really helpful.
http://testyourmight.com/threads/fundamentals-of-injustice.29564/

 

[TheSpore]

Deadite are you a PSN player or XBL player. If your on PSN we can work together.

Anyway, to answer your question there are many ways to practice it, to understand how each character works play as them, learn there abilities through exp. this will also help aquaint you with the game itself, every character has a paticular style of play involved in them and will helpyou learn different tech. and styles. Take these things and apply them to your main. DOn't just learn a long stringed 30+ hit combo, learn to simply link strings together, this will help you understand how to utilize the character's abilities and be able to form a combo using every attack available.

Other than straight up practice thats about all one can do. Also read about the match ups this will help you understand what each character's weakness and stregnths are against you main(s).

 

[Deadite]

There are so many useful answers provided from different users so I'm gonna ask more on the subject.

I heard people use the term "Punish", I watch a lot of tournament play on Youtube, and the broadcaster seemed to get to use this term a lot, so does it mean the player is taking risk for high reward? Can you tell me what kind of situation justify for risking to get Punished?

Is there a general answer on what almost always is the fastest attack, what always is the slowest? I know with different character the answer varies.

Deadite are you a PSN player or XBL player. If your on PSN we can work together.

Anyway, to answer your question there are many ways to practice it, to understand how each character works play as them, learn there abilities through exp. this will also help aquaint you with the game itself, every character has a paticular style of play involved in them and will helpyou learn different tech. and styles. Take these things and apply them to your main. DOn't just learn a long stringed 30+ hit combo, learn to simply link strings together, this will help you understand how to utilize the character's abilities and be able to form a combo using every attack available.

Other than straight up practice thats about all one can do. Also read about the match ups this will help you understand what each character's weakness and stregnths are against you main(s).

XBL, I will convert to PC if Injustice gets a PC release.

 

[Vocket]

Punishing is simply attacking an opponent after he has done a move that is unsafe or that leaves him wide open to a counter response. In more technical terms, it means the opponent has done something that leaves them in frame disadvantage and you can do a move fast enough to respond and damage him, usually with a combo.

As for the fastest attacks they are generally the low short reach moves. We call them pokes and are universally the fastest move in most fighting game. In Injustice every character has a D1, (in xbox terms it means to press the x button while holding down. We use short hand notation so tell us if you are comfortable understanding 1234 or LMHS). D1 does a fast and short reach punch or poke while you are crouching.

The slowest move depends on each character and has to learned by seeing all of the character's moves.

P.S. Nice name, I love the Evil Dead series as if it was my firstborn

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

I just wait. Humans are prone to error, wait and punish.

 

[Deadite]

Punishing is simply attacking an opponent after he has done a move that is unsafe or that leaves him wide open to a counter response. In more technical terms, it means the opponent has done something that leaves them in frame disadvantage and you can do a move fast enough to respond and damage him, usually with a combo.

As for the fastest attacks they are generally the low short reach moves. We call them pokes and are universally the fastest move in most fighting game. In Injustice every character has a D1, (in xbox terms it means to press the x button while holding down. We use short hand notation so tell us if you are comfortable understanding 1234 or LMHS). D1 does a fast and short reach punch or poke while you are crouching.

The slowest move depends on each character and has to learned by seeing all of the character's moves.

P.S. Nice name, I love the Evil Dead series as if it was my firstborn

Can you specify a situation where you'd be willing to do a move that'll risk being Punished by your opponent? That was my question. *fistbump for knowing Evil Dead*

How to use a cancel to abuse a situation? Like, you want to fake an attack so your opponent would try to parry, and you abuse the other player's parry?

I just wait. Humans are prone to error, wait and punish.

If you read the opponent is waiting to punish you, what would you do? Let's say he's the Joker (Injustice) and he's about to Parry to gain his Ha. (You're welcome to use your own examples.)

Can I use a Cancel to abuse this situation?

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

If you feel hes waiting to punish you dont do anything unsafe. Especially if you have the life lead. Make him chase you down and try to attack you if you

 

[Deadite]

If you feel hes waiting to punish you dont do anything unsafe. Especially if you have the life lead. Make him chase you down and try to attack you if you

Can you be more specific on what would you do, if you feel like your opponent is about to Parry? Would you do a cancel, and when he Parry the cancel, nothing's gonna hit you, and you'd have created a gap you can punish him with?

(You can use MK example)

 

[Red Reaper]

Can you be more specific on what would you do, if you feel like your opponent is about to Parry? Would you do a cancel, and when he Parry the cancel, nothing's gonna hit you, and you'd have created a gap you can punish him with?

(You can use MK example)

Parry's are character specific in MK as I'm sure they are Injustice.

Generally if you expect them to parry, you get in range to attack and just wait for him to throw it out. Generally you get a Full Kombo if they do a parry and you don't attack, like in the Injustice Demo on Batman or on Cyber-Sub in MK. Some slow moves are react-able. So if he's always waiting to parry a slower move, do a faster one that he kan't react to. If the move is soo slow that he doesn't even have to think to parry, then I recommend refraining from doing the move in that match up at least.

As for your first question, play the game, and if you have an offline Scene, show up as much as you kan. They kan often help you get better no matter what level you're at. The Frame Data in game for Injustice also helps.

When in Doubt, block and (if klose) prepare to tech a throw even if you fail to tech, it's less than eating a full kombo for doing something stupid. At mid range, block and prepare to react to jumps or attacks that miss. Don't worry, you'll get better at understanding everything once you start playing more as long as you have the korrect mindset and you don't give up.

 

[Lord Beef]

Deadite, I think you are getting into some very specific meta-game type stuff here. A lot of what you are asking comes from knowing your opponents options at a certain place or time on the screen and how to either eliminate some of those options. I suggest the same thing that Juggs suggests, read Playing to Win. Then perhaps watch some footage from major tournaments and see how the commentators give you a window into how the players are thinking and why they are doing what they are doing.

The best thing I can say to you is to start slow. Don't try to get too wrapped up in, "Why these two players exchanged a couple punches here" or, "why this happened there". It will only bog you down. Focus on learning your character's combos, tools and spacing until they are in muscle memory. Then move on to the basics of fighting games(when to attack, when to play lame, how to work a life lead etc) Then move on to learning match-ups. Focusing on learning specific match-ups once you have learned the basics of your character(s) is one of the best ways to start learning the concept of mix-ups and meta-game.

Match-ups are what carry all of that crazy character-specific stuff in the game. A good example would be punishing, in MK9 if you don't know how to punish certain moves to the fullest with all of your characters, you will get wrecked. Lets take Mileena's EXTele Kicks for example: Not every character punishes this move on block with the same starter, and some can't punish it all. These are the type of very specific things you learn once you start getting into character match ups.

It can all seem very overwhelming, and yes, on a competitive level there is A LOT to know and learn about a fighting game. But thats what makes them so awesome. I equate them to chess, you vs your opponent. Mind vs Mind, Wit vs Wit. So yeah, start with the philosophy of playing to win, then learn your character and move on to match ups. Take it one step at a time and most of all, LEARN FROM YOUR LOSSES AND MISTAKES.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Both, if you can react, then do so.

If you can't, then read. But there are things that some may be able to react to and you can't. In that case, if you're too lazy to train your reactions then read. But it comes with obvious consequences such as taking risks when you don't have to.