General/Other My Time With Sub-Zero

[Z-911-Z]

Alright, so here's the deal. After all the topics and posts about SZ being crappy and some even saying he's the worst in the game, I decided to randomly pick him up temporarily. Last night I hit up training mode and memorized the bnbs, the specials, and all the set-ups for about half an hour. I went online and got the idea to use SZ first and try him out in my first ranked match online. I ended up winning pretty handily, so I went "hrm, maybe I might like this guy" and went ahead and just played as him the entire time.

So basically here I'm going to log all of my matches with Subby, to see just how horrible this character is. Here's some other miscellaneous information:

- This was literally the first time I started playing Sub worth a damn, the only other times was during story mode and in the arcade ladder to get all of the endings.
- I realise I'm obviously not going to be the prodigy of Tom Brady or anything, so I went in doubting that I'd be winning matches with players of high TS.
- I'm not sure how long this will go, I guess for as long as I use Sub? That or I get bored of writing these up or die from alcohol poisoning. Whichever comes first.

Alright, without further random mumbo jumbo here is the log from last night.

Day 1(Resurrection):

Wins:

- Low-level Noob Saibot
- Mid-level Raiden
- Another Noob Saibot
- Rookie Kung Lao
- Mid-level Cyrax
- Mid-level Kitana
- Annoying Johnny Cage
SPOILERS: Johnny Cage dislikes ice clones.
- Yet Another Noob Saibot
- Mid-level Liu Kang
Note: B312B312B312

Losses:

- Lagfest Spam Saibot
- High-level Sonya
- Uber Nightwolf
Note: I have no clue why I seem to attract these guys. It seems like every other time I play ranked for a while I run into these people. I swear if all of the monster online Nightwolf players banded together they would probably take over an entire continent.
- Another Sub-Zero
Note: This match wasn't played seriously by either of us, we were both clearly messing around with stance dances and random teabags.

Record for the Day: 9-4(Three losses if you want to discount the mirror match)

My Thoughts:

- I love Sub-Zero's footsies, his D4 seems underrated.
- I found out after a few matches that ice clone is best used up-close, should only be rarily used elsewhere if your opponent can't do much to you if you're turtling on life lead.
- Sub can win a bunch of projectile trades, even if he doesn't get a full combo he can at least close the distance more to get back into his groove.
- Pretty much never used Ground Freeze, I have used the ex version a few times but it got me combo'd all the time lul. xD *Sweat drop*
- I find Sub's combos to be pretty easy to use online, much better than trying to use Kano's anyway where you need to be more prceise on using 212.
- I'm honestly surprised that I never encountered any Smokes, instead I was busy dealing with the freaking army of Spam Saibots. Seriously, these guys are why I'm afraid to use my own Noob online for fear of being shoehorned into their group.
- Even during losses I've had fun playing this character, I'm not sure why I just seem to enjoy the play style.

 

[Qwark28]

He's Tom,of course you'll like him.

 

[NKZero]

Nice to see someone picking up Sub Zero despite the claims of him being complete dogshit lmao! It seems as if you're playing him the right way, trying to be aggressive and using the ice clone to scare opponents up close as opposed to as a barrier to turtle behind.

Against Noob, it's all about patience. You will inevitably get knocked down a few times but you have to find a way to get in and once you're in that D4 range, they will panic and start throwing out the up knee. When a D4 hits, they have to block and thus your pressure commences. Also if you are at a distance from Noob you can throw out the occasional EX freeze (you'll obviously win the trade).

Hope you enjoy playing with the character and that he's a permanent pick up

 

[Qwark28]

he aint dogshit.

just has to work hard,hes very comfy vs pressure too.

 

[NKZero]

I never said he was....read my post carefully. Or perhaps you're supporting what I said? Idk lol....sorry if you are

 

[Z-911-Z]

Nice to see someone picking up Sub Zero despite the claims of him being complete dogshit lmao! It seems as if you're playing him the right way, trying to be aggressive and using the ice clone to scare opponents up close as opposed to as a barrier to turtle behind.

Against Noob, it's all about patience. You will inevitably get knocked down a few times but you have to find a way to get in and once you're in that D4 range, they will panic and start throwing out the up knee. When a D4 hits, they have to block and thus your pressure commences. Also if you are at a distance from Noob you can throw out the occasional EX freeze (you'll obviously win the trade).

Hope you enjoy playing with the character and that he's a permanent pick up

Indeed, and thanks for the pointers they're always welcome. Sub seems like a good meter user with ex freeze to beat out zoners and using ex slide to suddenly switch sides with opponents and put them in the corner for pressure. Look forward to beating up more Noob players tonight, though with my luck I'll be hitting up the Smoke uprising again, that's always fun. -_-;

But yeah, I had fun. Hopefully this'll continue being fun and I'll keep Sub as a main or at least a fun secondary to go to.

 

[Qwark28]

I never said he was....read my post carefully. Or perhaps you're supporting what I said? Idk lol....sorry if you are

im agreeing w you

 

[NKZero]

Indeed, and thanks for the pointers they're always welcome. Sub seems like a good meter user with ex freeze to beat out zoners and using ex slide to suddenly switch sides with opponents and put them in the corner for pressure. Look forward to beating up more Noob players tonight, though with my luck I'll be hitting up the Smoke uprising again, that's always fun. -_-;

But yeah, I had fun. Hopefully this'll continue being fun and I'll keep Sub as a main or at least a fun secondary to go to.

Surprisingly enough Sub Zero doesn't fare too badly against Smoke. A max range D4 cannot be countered with a B2 but keep it at max range. Also watch out for random smoke bombs. Obviously you cannot zone in this match-up and use of the ice clone is important as you should try to limit Smoke's mobility in any way possible.

Anyways good luck. Beat those other ninjas and show them that Sub Zero is still the top dog....if not on the tier list then by the mere mention of his name

 

[Z-911-Z]

Yeah, I definitely don't think Sub is as bad as people say. I understand he's been nerfed a lot by a bunch of factors, but he still isn't something to sleep on for most characters.

 

[Lord Beef]

Yeah, I definitely don't think Sub is as bad as people say. I understand he's been nerfed a lot by a bunch of factors, but he still isn't something to sleep on for most characters.

Yeah, he's not crappy, its just that he gets pwnd by low hitbox characters. And kung lao ...ohhhhh kung lao

Sent from Somewhere to Somewhere Else

 

[NB Semi Evil Ryu]

I've always believed that the danger in Sub-Zero is not so much his tools and what they accomplish on execution, but rather how the player USES those tools.

Perhaps the same could be said of all characters, but I think that this statement stands out more in Subby's case.

 

[Salad Petresky]

You win because online not many know how to deal with ice clone. I mean there are people just love to jump into that clone online its ridiculous. People who know how to fight sub will give him a hard time, especially cyrax and zoners

 

[OnizukaPM]

You win because online not many know how to deal with ice clone. I mean there are people just love to jump into that clone online its ridiculous. People who know how to fight sub will give him a hard time, especially cyrax and zoners

Offline when i jump into clone im ALWAYS like WTF i didnt mean to jump, this is the part where i love Subby

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Yeah, I definitely don't think Sub is as bad as people say. I understand he's been nerfed a lot by a bunch of factors, but he still isn't something to sleep on for most characters.

The people who think he is "really" bad... are the ones that use Mileena, Kitana, and the likes. They have no reason to fear him.

 

[Faded Dreams V]

- I love Sub-Zero's footsies, his D4 seems underrated.

Underrated? I SWEAR by his D4.

Anyways, I recently picked him up, and after a week, he ended up being my 4th best character somehow. Like, I found him so piss easy to learn, but incredibly fun to use. Hell, I like using him more than my secondaries. The majority of people online don't know a thing about footsies, so they don't know how to fight against a Sub-Zero that does more than turtle behind an ice clone and spam ice balls. Offline, I can see why Sub-Zero is shit though. So many bad matchups. I think Mileena, Kenshi, Kitana, Smoke, Freddy, Kabal, and Kung Lao destroy this character. He's also so easily outzoned. Like, you really, really need to master your matchups if you want to succeed with this character.

 

[Z-911-Z]

The people who think he is "really" bad... are the ones that use Mileena, Kitana, and the likes. They have no reason to fear him.

Yeah, I can see that. That's kinda like how THTB thinks Johnny Cage is low tier, lul.

Underrated? I SWEAR by his D4.

Anyways, I recently picked him up, and after a week, he ended up being my 4th best character somehow. Like, I found him so piss easy to learn, but incredibly fun to use. Hell, I like using him more than my secondaries. The majority of people online don't know a thing about footsies, so they don't know how to fight against a Sub-Zero that does more than turtle behind an ice clone and spam ice balls. Offline, I can see why Sub-Zero is shit though. So many bad matchups. I think Mileena, Kenshi, Kitana, Smoke, Freddy, Kabal, and Kung Lao destroy this character. He's also so easily outzoned. Like, you really, really need to master your matchups if you want to succeed with this character.

Sub seems to be a character that's easy to pick up, but hard to master. You need to follow gameplans against every character to a tee or else you'll find yourself having to do acrobatics to get around projectiles. That's not even taking into account knowing which projectile Sub can tank with ex slide without having it get blocked and having to eat a full combo.

Either way, if I started playing in offline tourneys I'd definitely keep Sub as a handy secondary. He has some pretty bad matches, but I believe he also has some very good matches. This may be the start of a beautiful friendship with this character.

 

[salvificblood]

Underrated? I SWEAR by his D4.

Anyways, I recently picked him up, and after a week, he ended up being my 4th best character somehow. Like, I found him so piss easy to learn, but incredibly fun to use. Hell, I like using him more than my secondaries. The majority of people online don't know a thing about footsies, so they don't know how to fight against a Sub-Zero that does more than turtle behind an ice clone and spam ice balls. Offline, I can see why Sub-Zero is shit though. So many bad matchups. I think Mileena, Kenshi, Kitana, Smoke, Freddy, Kabal, and Kung Lao destroy this character. He's also so easily outzoned. Like, you really, really need to master your matchups if you want to succeed with this character.

Smoke, Kabal and Kenshi don't destroy him. He's 5:5 with all of them, even Kenshi because once you get in on Kenshi, 21 and crossup pressure gives him absolute hell and if you're using b121 on your combos he can't armoured wakeup to keep you out. Characters that give Sub hell are: Kung Lao, Mileena, Kitana, Raiden (this character is so full of bs). Other hard matchups would be Jax, Sektor and Freddy but the four above are his absolute worst matchups. I also suspect Jade, Sindel and Stryker are sticky wickets for Sub-Zero but I think with more matchup experience, they'll be 5:5 for me... maybe.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Welcome to the character.

You'll find that me and sal love the character.... give around the same advice... yet disagree with sooooooo many match ups!!! LOL.

 

[Faded Dreams V]

Smoke, Kabal and Kenshi don't destroy him. He's 5:5 with all of them, even Kenshi because once you get in on Kenshi, 21 and crossup pressure gives him absolute hell and if you're using b121 on your combos he can't armoured wakeup to keep you out. Characters that give Sub hell are: Kung Lao, Mileena, Kitana, Raiden (this character is so full of bs). Other hard matchups would be Jax, Sektor and Freddy but the four above are his absolute worst matchups. I also suspect Jade, Sindel and Stryker are sticky wickets for Sub-Zero but I think with more matchup experience, they'll be 5:5 for me... maybe.

Isn't Kabal's zoning worse than Kitana's? I mean, Kabal rapes Kitana with his zoning, so I assumed it's even worse for Sub-Zero.

As for the Kenshi matchup, it's honestly easier said than done getting in on a really good Kenshi. And if he has Armor, cross-ups aren't guaranteed to work. I just based this on watching Pig of the Hut beat LionHeart. That looked painful.

And lastly, the Smoke vs. Sub-Zero matchup. Eh, this one I'm iffy about. Might be 5-5. But from my experience, I def think it's in Smoke's favor. He beats every single thing Sub-Zero does. Just on my battles, I'd say 6-4 or 5.5-4.5.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Isn't Kabal's zoning worse than Kitana's? I mean, Kabal rapes Kitana with his zoning, so I assumed it's even worse for Sub-Zero.

As for the Kenshi matchup, it's honestly easier said than done getting in on a really good Kenshi. And if he has Armor, cross-ups aren't guaranteed to work. I just based this on watching Pig of the Hut beat LionHeart. That looked painful.

And lastly, the Smoke vs. Sub-Zero matchup. Eh, this one I'm iffy about. Might be 5-5. But from my experience, I def think it's in Smoke's favor. He beats every single thing Sub-Zero does. Just on my battles, I'd say 6-4 or 5.5-4.5.

Kenshi KILLS Sub.
Smoke is 5=5 because He can actually stay on top of him.
Kabal is different from Kitana... in that Sub can actually keep him in the corner.

 

[Z-911-Z]

Yeah, Kitana's ass boost is retarded. Pretty much a get out of jail free card for corners. >_>

 

[salvificblood]

Isn't Kabal's zoning worse than Kitana's? I mean, Kabal rapes Kitana with his zoning, so I assumed it's even worse for Sub-Zero.

As for the Kenshi matchup, it's honestly easier said than done getting in on a really good Kenshi. And if he has Armor, cross-ups aren't guaranteed to work. I just based this on watching Pig of the Hut beat LionHeart. That looked painful.

And lastly, the Smoke vs. Sub-Zero matchup. Eh, this one I'm iffy about. Might be 5-5. But from my experience, I def think it's in Smoke's favor. He beats every single thing Sub-Zero does. Just on my battles, I'd say 6-4 or 5.5-4.5.

Kabal's zoning isn't really worse for Sub-Zero and the difference is, Kabal has to take bigber risks to escape Sub's pressure and his normals are not as good at keep Sub out which Kitana's seem to be designed to do. Kitana can be airborne for pretty much the whole fight and it's very difficult for Sub-Zero to deal with characters who can consistently switch sides on him, even if he has a theoretical punish in the slide.

Against Kenshi you have to be prepared to take risks and bargain away some life to get in. I am not saying it's easy for Sub to do it, of course.

If used correctly, Sub's slide will prevent the Smoke player from throwing out too many smoke bombs which allows you to advance. D4 is Sub's best offensive tool because we have a faster version than Smoke. Smoke is another character Sub-Zero can start to bully (especially in the corner, obviously), once he gets in and remember, when Sub has a lifelead, Smoke has no way to chip damage Sub so you can turtle on the lead.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Kabal's zoning isn't really worse for Sub-Zero and the difference is, Kabal has to take bigber risks to escape Sub's pressure and his normals are not as good at keep Sub out which Kitana's seem to be designed to do. Kitana can be airborne for pretty much the whole fight and it's very difficult for Sub-Zero to deal with characters who can consistently switch sides on him, even if he has a theoretical punish in the slide.

Against Kenshi you have to be prepared to take risks and bargain away some life to get in. I am not saying it's easy for Sub to do it, of course.

If used correctly, Sub's slide will prevent the Smoke player from throwing out too many smoke bombs which allows you to advance. D4 is Sub's best offensive tool because we have a faster version than Smoke. Smoke is another character Sub-Zero can start to bully (especially in the corner, obviously), once he gets in and remember, when Sub has a lifelead, Smoke has no way to chip damage Sub so you can turtle on the lead.

WORD!!! Seriously... we have this stuff on another thread...in MAJOR detail... and almost even a fight!!! It is good stuff and tons of information to start off with at least. At the very least... you'll find out who knows what they are talking about... to an extent.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Indeed, and thanks for the pointers they're always welcome. Sub seems like a good meter user with ex freeze to beat out zoners and using ex slide to suddenly switch sides with opponents and put them in the corner for pressure. Look forward to beating up more Noob players tonight, though with my luck I'll be hitting up the Smoke uprising again, that's always fun. -_-;

But yeah, I had fun. Hopefully this'll continue being fun and I'll keep Sub as a main or at least a fun secondary to go to.

The thing I've found that works really good against Smoke is ... 22. It's faster that a lot of his stuff and can stop cross overs, catch a blind air teleport after he reappears, and punishes a blocked teleport.

So say he does 3D12 on you while you're blocking, 22 immediately after his last hit hits your block. A lot of the time you can catch him in 22 freeze.

 

[salvificblood]

The thing I've found that works really good against Smoke is ... 22. It's faster that a lot of his stuff and can stop cross overs, catch a blind air teleport after he reappears, and punishes a blocked teleport.

So say he does 3D12 on you while you're blocking, 22 immediately after his last hit hits your block. A lot of the time you can catch him in 22 freeze.

Absolutely, disrespect Smoke's d1 at the end of the string and mash out 22 because the whole point of Smoke doing d1 at the end of the string is to establish a mindgame for mixing you up later with other blockstrings, throws or crossups. Also, do not be afraid to njp Smoke if he's staggering his strings and crossing you up. I used to lose badly to Smoke by respecting his offense too much, now I make him d1 me at the end of the 3d12 string.

For blocked telepunch, either do 212, freeze as he's landing or b12214, slide (do it early in the ball animation) for 29%