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Trauma_and_Pain

Filthy Casual
but seems like zoning was never allowed to live in mkx.
I actually think MKX top zoners do just fine. The zoning is very weak compared to IGAU, but I thought IGAU zoning could be too much at times.

In MKX, a good player behind a good zoner like Quan, Acidic, Kitana, Hish qu Ten or Sektor can zone people for a time... and then the opponent finds their way in, which is how it should be. It's then up to the zoner to create space somehow to get back to the distance they like. I think it works very well.

But yeah, on topic, Balanced zoning needs help.
 

ShadyHeart

Relationship with Sonya ended
DO NOT TOUCH MILEENA



f0xy is schooling people on the neutral game.
I do feel like nothing she has is overpowered. People complain all the time about B12 but it's slightly negative and can be low profiled easily by a D4 or some such or just beaten by a faster move. "But what if she uses a sai or roll after the B12? You get punished for trying to do something!". Yeah well she gets full combo punished for using ANY special after B12 except for regular sai if you block it and regular sai will end her pressure unless she uses EX roll, which is of course full combo punishable. The only reason I said in a previous post about piercing maybe deserving a few love taps is just slightly toning down certain things like giving B12 a VERY slight increase in recovery frames (like 2 frames or so) just to make it a bit less oppressive against certain characters that have bad low pokes.

If any of her universal moves get nerfed it would be pretty stupid. I think we can all agree ravenous and ethereal don't need a nerf.
 

imblackjames

Ive seen the leprechaun
They need to buff dualist. I say
•Orbs absorb 1 projectile. To help him in mus where he gets out zoned.

•Enhanced fireball has less pushback. So he can jail more consistently.

•Orbs have better hitbox and less recovery. So his setups become more safe and AA setups become more viable.

•Stance Switch has less recovery. Therefore making his links easier and giving him more damage.
ill take the last two i don't want dualist to get too good. it's a pain fighting you already lol

honestly i was thinking different ones for dualist though 1) healing stance does 1% for as long as you hold it 2) damage buff stays regardless of stance 3) low profiles with his low projectiles
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
I do feel like nothing she has is overpowered. People complain all the time about B12 but it's slightly negative and can be low profiled easily by a D4 or some such or just beaten by a faster move. "But what if she uses a sai or roll after the B12? You get punished for trying to do something!". Yeah well she gets full combo punished for using ANY special after B12 except for regular sai if you block it and regular sai will end her pressure unless she uses EX roll, which is of course full combo punishable. The only reason I said in a previous post about piercing maybe deserving a few love taps is just slightly toning down certain things like giving B12 a VERY slight increase in recovery frames (like 2 frames or so) just to make it a bit less oppressive against certain characters that have bad low pokes.

If any of her universal moves get nerfed it would be pretty stupid. I think we can all agree ravenous and ethereal don't need a nerf.
It's the combination of great frames on block, fast recovery on whiff, and pushback which makes b12 that good. The string needs to get worse at least in one of these three fields.
Or maybe keep all of that like it is now, and give her b1 the Raiden f1 treatment, which became a high.

Teleport into sai on block should go also. Every blocked teleport must be a clean full combo punish vs all characters.
 
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It's the combination of great frames on block, fast recovery on whiff, and pushback which makes b12 that good. The string needs to get worse at least in one of these three fields.
Or maybe keep all of that like it is now, and give her b1 the Raiden f1 treatment, which became a high.

Teleport into sai on block should go also. Every blocked teleport must be a clean full combo punish vs all characters.
If so, come up with a useful buff for both Ravenous and Ethereal, since teleport into sai is a universal nerf.
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
If so, come up with a useful buff for both Ravenous and Ethereal, since teleport into sai is a universal nerf.
I don't know these two variations enough to propose buffs, I don't even know if they deserve them. From what I heard from Mileena players, at least ethereal is solid.

Anyway, no matter if they deserve buffs or not, the removal of the teleport into sai on block does not have to be compensated with buffs. It's simply a resource that the character shouldn't have: every blocked teleport from any character should lead to full punish, not to a mindgame buying her the chance to get away for free. That's independent of the buffs the variations might deserve.

For example, I wouldn't ask for stunt double buffs in case his htb is removed, and that's because I know it's something it shouldn't be there. Does not deserve compensation.
 

Damaja325

Stylin' & Low Profilin'
u know, this may be a moot point but i don't really see why mileena's telekick into air sai on block is so bad when a character like scorpion can cancel his tele and stay safe. i always thought that was dumb. despite whether or not scorpion "needs" it, he's teleporting and getting away with it. and i thought the general consensus was that blocked teleports should be punishable on block.
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
u know, this may be a moot point but i don't really see why mileena's telekick into air sai on block is so bad when a character like scorpion can cancel his tele and stay safe. i always thought that was dumb. despite whether or not scorpion "needs" it, he's teleporting and getting away with it. and i thought the general consensus was that blocked teleports should be punishable on block.
Maybe scorpion teleport cancel could be a bit more negative, I also think that, but that's another question. However, technically you are not blocking the teleport xD
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
I'm pretty sure every character can get a guaranteed punish against teleport into sai.
Brady talked about this scenario a lot.
Some characters allow to punish both options on reaction but the truth is the majority get caught by the sai/no sai mindgame if correctly timed, and she buys the chance to get away for free, or at the cost of a d1.

Armor covers both options, but nobody should be forced to spend meter to punish a teleport.

If sai only came out on hit, she would be rewarded for hitting the teleport, and punished when getting it blocked. Just like everyone else. Other option would be changing the sai timing.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
Brady talked about this scenario a lot.
Some characters allow to punish both options on reaction but the truth is the majority get caught by the sai/no sai mindgame if correctlytimed, and she buys the chance to get away for free, or at the cost of a d1.

Armor covers both options, bet nobody should be forced to spend meter to punish a teleport.
unless she does telekick into xray O:. still her cancelling into the sai shouldnt be a problem, just decrease the cancel advantage of telekick or maybe reduce the blockstun and voila. no need to remove it.
 

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
u know, this may be a moot point but i don't really see why mileena's telekick into air sai on block is so bad when a character like scorpion can cancel his tele and stay safe. i always thought that was dumb. despite whether or not scorpion "needs" it, he's teleporting and getting away with it. and i thought the general consensus was that blocked teleports should be punishable on block.
I waiting for fisticuffs to get an around the world fist bump teleport that is plus on block, has armor and launches for a full combo
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
Why does D'Vorah need a plus 22 puddle on block? I've been using her and have not figured out why she needs it
for anti-zoning mostly, but it doubles as an oki tool. the idea is that its slow on startup so that u can react to it, so to make up for being slow, its plenty plus on block.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
u know, this may be a moot point but i don't really see why mileena's telekick into air sai on block is so bad when a character like scorpion can cancel his tele and stay safe. i always thought that was dumb. despite whether or not scorpion "needs" it, he's teleporting and getting away with it. and i thought the general consensus was that blocked teleports should be punishable on block.
His teleport Cancel is better than his backdash, considering he doesn't have faster walk speeds, to outspace advancing normals, his tele cancel is the next best thing. He needs it and it costs his whole stamina, so he can't backdash after using it either and if done relentlessly you can still punish him on a hard read.

Comparing Mileena tp~sai vs tp~cancel its not correct, both are teleports for sure, but both works different as well.