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Question - Hellfire Most optimal combo off of a spear?

Matix218

Matix218

Get over here!
@Ze Dingo
I know it is now considered optimal to end anything after flame aura with 3 fbrc 21 teleport rather than the old 21 teleport but I was thinking about this when I was playing some matches and using this and I don't know if it is optimal from a strategy standpoint. It gives you less post teleport pressure options since the 3 fbrc part of the combo ender actually depletes some of your stamina and makes you have less pressure continuing options due to having less stamina after you restand with the teleport. I feel like it is better to just end it 3~teleport or 21~teleport and have full stamina going into your post combo pressure. Do you have any thoughts on this? I guess this post should really be in the "combo" thread or whatever but I just thought of it while looking at this thread so whatever lol
 
Ze Dingo

Ze Dingo

D4->F2 = unblockable. Ice Clone = unpunishable.
@Matix218

You make a fair point, but I don't think it would be a viable concern unless the opponent had 0 meter. Scorpion's pressure is full of gaps and I think you're best off going with B121 for chip, 21~block, 3~block or 11~block to bait out an armoured reversal, B32F2, throw or F4~ex Tele (os) if you want to continue your offense.
 
God Confirm

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Matix218 said:
@Ze Dingo
I know it is now considered optimal to end anything after flame aura with 3 fbrc 21 teleport rather than the old 21 teleport but I was thinking about this when I was playing some matches and using this and I don't know if it is optimal from a strategy standpoint. It gives you less post teleport pressure options since the 3 fbrc part of the combo ender actually depletes some of your stamina and makes you have less pressure continuing options due to having less stamina after you restand with the teleport. I feel like it is better to just end it 3~teleport or 21~teleport and have full stamina going into your post combo pressure. Do you have any thoughts on this? I guess this post should really be in the "combo" thread or whatever but I just thought of it while looking at this thread so whatever lol
Click to expand...
It's always been the norm to end with 21 FBC S4~TP, the only difference now is S3 instead of the 21, leaving you with the same amount of stamina as before. You can choose not to do it if you want a full bar of stamina, but as said its probably best to take your guaranteed damage where you can get you never know whats going to happen with the pressure.


P.S. to OP i think the ooptimal follow up to spear is

Spear, JiP, 123 TP RC B12 Flame Aura, S3 FBC 21 TP
 
H

Hor_PeT

Noob
Ze Dingo said:
@Matix218

You make a fair point, but I don't think it would be a viable concern unless the opponent had 0 meter. Scorpion's pressure is full of gaps and I think you're best off going with B121 for chip, 21~block, 3~block or 11~block to bait out an armoured reversal, B32F2, throw or F4~ex Tele (os) if you want to continue your offense.
Click to expand...
If you use your stamina during the combo the opponnent can assume that you dont want to continue with FBRC. With full stamina your opponent needs to expect more options and the bait might be more successful.

In theory mind game. :))
 
JTB123

JTB123

>>R2 - BF4 = Unblockable.
Hor_PeT said:
If you use your stamina during the combo the opponnent can assume that you dont want to continue with FBRC. With full stamina your opponent needs to expect more options and the bait might be more successful.

In theory mind game. :))
Click to expand...
I was going to mention this as well.

If you use a cancel at the end of a combo then you lose being able to use the 214 teleport option select, using F3 cancels to catch back dashes or confirm with B1 or B3 if they try and poke out of 21 after a cancel.

If we're talking absolutely nothing but damage then I'd say use it but otherwise that stamina should be saved for cancels after your mixups/pressure.
 
God Confirm

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
JTB123 said:
I was going to mention this as well.

If you use a cancel at the end of a combo then you lose being able to use the 214 teleport option select, using F3 cancels to catch back dashes or confirm with B1 or B3 if they try and poke out of 21 after a cancel.

If we're talking absolutely nothing but damage then I'd say use it but otherwise that stamina should be saved for cancels after your mixups/pressure.
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maybe you are right but it is like 2% we are sacrificing right
 
Matix218

Matix218

Get over here!
Ze Dingo said:
Can't tell if sarcasm or not :confused:

But God Conform posted a better one in terms of damage.



You input F4~ex Tele. If the F4 gets blocked, cancel the teleport, if it hits, let it rip.
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Technically it is more of a hit confirm than an option select in the case of f4 ex teleport since you can visually confirm that it has hit or been blocked and react accordingly by letting it rip or cancelling. He may have been confused because option select generally refers to you making a certain input where it automatically will give you what you want on hit and have it not come out on block and generally there is no visual confirm involved as far as I know.
 
Ze Dingo

Ze Dingo

D4->F2 = unblockable. Ice Clone = unpunishable.
SaSSolino said:
I'm being serious and I'm interested in damage, but swag.
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I can try to record it with potato cam. I'm currently having troubles with an IP ban issue, so I can't upload off the PS4 directly.

OT:

@Matix218 and @JTB123 are absolutely right. The FBRC at the end is definitely counterproductive and the stamina should be saved.

So, the optimal combo is definitely:

Jp2 214~Tele, run b12~flame aura, 3~Tele for 26% damage into restand. - credit to @getoverhere--->
 
RiBBz22

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Off a raw spear I usually just do JP, f4~FA, 214~tele, b32f2 just to keep things simple.
 
H

Hor_PeT

Noob
Btw I compared the damage of the different scenarios (without the FBRC at the end of the combo).

super easy: Spear, JiP, F4xxFA, S3xxTP (19%)
medium easy: Spear, NJP, JK~tele flame aura, 3~Tele (19%)
difficult: Spear, JiP, 123 TP RC B12 Flame Aura, S3xxTP (24%)

Overall damage depends on your starter but if you want the best damage you need to do the RC combo. However you will arrive at the teleport without full stamina (but more than after FBRC).
So if you already give up the cancel for the more damage you can simply do the FBRC after the RC combo for the most damage but it gives you only +1 damage.

most difficult: Spear, JiP, 123 TP RC B12 Flame Aura, S3xxFBRC, 21xxTP (25%)

Personally I stick to the "super easy" version combo (and choose "medium easy" if I want to be fancy) but there might be scenarios when the more damage might be more important (ending game, etc.).

+5% for a bit stamina is tempting with the "difficult" version though. I did not test if that stamina regenerates during the post pressure and still being able to do 2 FBRC. Maybe better FBRC players could test it I am not perfect in it yet. :)
 
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Ze Dingo

Ze Dingo

D4->F2 = unblockable. Ice Clone = unpunishable.
I would strongly recommend not FBRCing unless you absolutely need that 2% damage that you're leaving on the table.

Not only does it affect your post restand pressure, it affects your offense if you want to go for the hitconfirm on F4~ex Tele.
 
braandooon

braandooon

I don't even know...
You could do, off of a spear, 214, DB3, RC, B12, DB4, S3, FBRC, F4, DB3. Hope you enjoy, B12 off of the teleport may be a bit tricky, but it's worth learning.
 
Ze Dingo

Ze Dingo

D4->F2 = unblockable. Ice Clone = unpunishable.
braandooon said:
You could do, off of a spear, 214, DB3, RC, B12, DB4, S3, FBRC, F4, DB3. Hope you enjoy, B12 off of the teleport may be a bit tricky, but it's worth learning.
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Once you start the run, you can hold B and it won't stop the run, so, it's not that tricky at all, really...
 
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