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Mortal Kombat X and it’s future with “patches”.

Barrogh

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
BRUTALITY said:
flip flopping on poorly conceived patches is exactly the kind of thing to repel players en masse. too many changes and players lose interest as well as make it harder for new players.
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It's kind of bad, I agree. Probably wouldn't give me much trouble, but then I'm not exactly hardcore player. I just think that it's better this way than to leave some "bad" changes in just out of fear to make it look like devs didn't know what they were doing. We all make mistakes, and it's ok as long as we can amend, vidiya devs aren't different in this regard.

Ideally I'd rather have them using baby-steps, but making baby steps when your support cylcle lasts like 3 times less than it takes to figure out the game, you know... Eh :(
 
THTB

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
There's never going to be a right amount or time for patches. Games designed around competition can continue to have a metagame that grows for a pretty fucking long time. So patching early isn't ideal for the players, but waiting is one of the worst things you can do, since that first impression can make the difference between a game that gets similar or higher numbers a year later, and a game that gets near-zero interest 2 weeks after that patch finally hits (i.e. SFxT).

The thing that would help NRS a lot here is location tests at majors or something. 2 days isn't a lot, but when you have like 10-20x the people breaking the shit out of the game than you would with the beta tests that NRS does, then you find a lot more than you would normally. Even then, not everything gets caught, unforunately, but thankfully that's where patches come in. I know NRS does showcases at gaming shows and whatnot, but most of the people playing have little to no interest on the mechanical side of the game.
 
E

Eji1700

Noob
It's about finding a good middle ground. think a lot of this depends on how much it costs them to patch the game with just simple numbers changes(if i recall, it's a lot. Or at the very least microsoft charges a ton).

Goals they should attempt:

Serious balance patch 2-4 months before EVO, with only very minor tweaks if absolutely necessary. EVO looking bad just KILLS the hype for this game, and it's a big enough thing these days that it can flow over into the casual community. Looking good and being ready for evo should be a goal for them, and not pissing off the community by doing it too close would help.

3 month grace period on any non obviously awful tech. "oops we ported MKT noob"- patch that shit. "sub zero has an interesting freeze mixup with his charge" let it ride. This is very much a "feel" thing, and I think it's the one thing they've mess up on more than anything else(patching things quickly that might need more time, and letting things that are just toxic to the community/meta ride). They do seem to be getting better though. There's very much a marketing issue here, where "tech that makes the good better or the bad worse" needs to be looked at more than the opposite. Having the same top tier keep winning is hype killing, and casuals hate having their character continue to suck forever.

Tournament location testing starting as early as possible- This would really really help. It's a numbers game. I can't think of a competitive game that was launched in a perfect state, and part of the problem is that even top players will miss shit when compared to the first initial wave of players which will be waaaay larger. Location testing is a nice in between, and can get you some good feedback to find some issues that have been missed. That said i know it's not common.

Handling launch- I don't have real data on player dropoff, but i'm gonna guess it's largest within the first few months. A 1 and a half month "quality of life patch" which ONLY touches the most extreme issues would go a long way. Ideally almost no nerfs unless something is just insane, but buffs for characters who clearly aren't performing as expected.
 
E

Eji1700

Noob
Fractured_Shadow said:
Main an unbalanced, OP, and late release DLC... profit.

Take a look at NRS's history with DLC characters.

Kenshi-#2
Freddy-#5
Skarlet-#8ish
Zod-#2-3
Batgirl-#2-3
Martain Manhunter-#1




Poor Scorpion......
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Yeah that does scare me. It got a lot worse with Injustice, and I think OP DLC is like, the ugliest thing you can do to your playerbase, but it's a shitty spot for them because if they aren't good casuals and comp's are going to be pissed about paying for it.

Granted obviously anyone not on that list wound up ok or awful. I really would just like to see them buff more clearly low tiers, rather than reaction screw with new toys. The baraka's and sheeva's of the game. Hell sometimes you don't even need a huge buff, just one thing that's enough to get attention on them so people give them a second look later in the cycle. Then if it still doesn't work, yeah they probably need something real.

It's a lot safer than buffing new characters or reaction nerfing tops.
 
Barrogh

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
Eji1700 said:
...if i recall, it's a lot. Or at the very least microsoft charges a ton.
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Shame. I keep forgetting about these troubles one must go through when dealing with console platform owners.
Well then, at least there's opportunity to use Steam as testing grounds now, should NRS choose to bother at all.
 
WakeUp DP

WakeUp DP

GT MK OshTekk.
Under_The_Mayo said:
I hope they patch the hell out of this game, for a solid year and a half.
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I hope they take their time with patches and only patch the bugs and glitches.

Balancing patches should start around 6months into the game then hopefully they keep supporting it even after they announce their new game.
 
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WakeUp DP

WakeUp DP

GT MK OshTekk.
Barrogh said:
I'll just ask if you really think that f23~breath had to stay for a year more?

IMO "reactionary patches" aren't a bad thing as long as support is maintained for longer periods than 6 months and devs are willing to backtrack on their changes if they are deemed bad in the end.
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It was bad but not that bad... People just werent use to using PB.
 
Barrogh

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
MK Trickylizard said:
It was bad but not that bad... People just werent use to using PB.
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Eh... I could maybe agree, but spending meter each time you block fast mid that could reach almost halfscreen (and not every character had more options back then) doesn't sounds like solution to me.

In any case, I'm not sure if I can justify keeping that for longer that it lasted.
 
WakeUp DP

WakeUp DP

GT MK OshTekk.
Barrogh said:
Eh... I could maybe agree, but spending meter each time you block fast mid that could reach almost halfscreen (and not every character had more options back then) doesn't sounds like solution to me.

In any case, I'm not sure if I can justify keeping that for longer that it lasted.
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I mean it was kinda OP but def not game breaking since it had ways aroubd it.
 
EndofGameBoss

EndofGameBoss

That's about right.
Unless there are infinites and resets that are discovered right off the bat, I say let it grow. I'm pretty sure WB's has a cap on how much money can be spent for patches and such. NRS should really let things play out and make the patches really count.

Aside from that, a lot of people quit these games early due to the patching. I don't know if that's a excuse, but that's what they claim.
 
Fractured_Shadow

Fractured_Shadow

Really likes to throw things at you.
Barrogh said:
My point is that it doesn't take something completely stupid like full screen block infinites or guaranteed full combos off breaker to justify addressing it before entire year of player development.
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Things like that shouldn't make it past testing.

The point he is trying to make is that overpatching or kneejerk patching is a real problem and if NRS spaced their patches out over longer periods of time and let real tech develope they would make superior patches that actually address real issues.

That being said, obvious broken tech needs to be addressed quickly.
 
WakeUp DP

WakeUp DP

GT MK OshTekk.
Fractured_Shadow said:
Things like that shouldn't make it past testing.

The point he is trying to make is that overpatching or kneejerk patching is a real problem and if NRS spaced their patches out over longer periods of time and let real tech develope they would make superior patches that actually address real issues.

That being said, obvious broken tech needs to be addressed quickly.
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^^ this.
 
T

trufenix

bye felicia
Barrogh said:
And then you realize that Capcom essentially makes paid patches for its SF and people are generally okay with it because in the end they don't want completely new game, and if they do, they just pick another one letting SF be SF.
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Uh, comparing SF to MK financially is absolutely impossible. SF pays for itself YEAR ROUND via arcades. MK pays for itself once. An upgrade takes WAY more than a few guys and a few bucks.

There's no reason why WB can't let NRS keep a few guys on patching duty if they can make a few bucks this way. I don't even play at tournaments yet I'd still buy another "updating season" even if there's no new content.
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Do you have any idea what the costs are? Every single time Capcom goes back to the well they drop characters and stages because they know people won't pay for content-free patches. Again, Capcom is seeing returns on SF every day. Upgrade or no upgrade.

Now, I do think that it's going to be minority who are ready to buy product as such, but expenses to release it also don't seem to be as monumental as making completely new game, so in the end this may actually work.
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Even if every single EVO MK9 competitor (for all three years, combined) bought a brand new copy of MK9 at 60 dollars, it wouldn't cover what Lab Zero needed to make a single DLC character for Skullgirls. Think about that.

That is if we ignore that some companies do keep releasing patches for marketing purposes. Think Blizzard and their 1.15 (IIRC) version of Diablo 2 that was released like 10 years into game's life and was actually pretty good - but they wanted to rekindle some interest for franchise prior to Diablo 3 release, so they just made a few touches upon most useless abilities and added some long-desired quality of life changes and it was still an improvement.
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Blizzard (like Capcom) sees returns from tons of properties year round. They have tons of people working on tons of things bringing in tons of money all the time. Competitive Starcraft is popular enough to literally be a television show in Korea. At the point when Diablo 2's twilight patch happened, WoW was literally the biggest game on the planet.

But regardless, you're ignoring the most important point of all. Why? Why would WB greenlight a patch or upgrade for peanuts when they can put NRS on a new game that will make them billions? MK as a franchise has never needed competitive success to be culturally relevant, so why bother if there's no money in it? For online warriors? For carl's medal collection? Are you even sure NRS wants to work on MK9 or Injustice for as long as you demand? You think reading long winded posts by top players about their incompetence and inability to make balanced titles are good motivators for putting in free overtime on year old games?
 
Eric The Scruffy

Eric The Scruffy

Noob
Fractured_Shadow said:
Things like that shouldn't make it past testing.
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People need to not have any illusions: its going to happen. Stupid shit is going to fall through the cracks. Even the almighty capcom, in the modern age, with all their testing and super high level playerbase managed to release broken piles of crud in vanilla marvel and SFXT complete with unblockables, infinites, gamebreaking glitches, etc. Even Fundamentals Fighter 4 has had its share of dumb dumb things.

NRS does not have the budget, the time, or the playerbase to prevent these sort of things from happening six months from launch....let alone day 1. Prepare yourselves.





As to the OP: terrible horrible idea. Patching a game right before the biggest tournament in the world for the sake of making it look good is backward and counterproductive. You're going to make the game look worse if you completely screw up what players have been practicing for for the past few months.
Only patching if at all should be to remove trully gamebreaking glitches and *maaaybe* infinites. Doing major balance changes before the biggest tournament of the year is insane.
 
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