MK9: Unofficial Tier List Speculation, and/or Character Shenanigans Discussion!

[Lady Death]

lmao exactly. Kung Random is random.

Quoted for truth.

 

[Sully]

I only care about the Kano tier, because Kano is the man. Even if he's fucked tier. lol

 

[Tim Static]

Come on you guys lets not scream nerf just yet, we don't want another Sentinel incident on our hands, lets play it out a bit longer.

yea we need some time, but right now, he is looking retard strong too.

Wait and see, wait and see.

 

[oZii]

I change my opinion on who is the #1 character in this game. It is no longer Sub to me, it is Kung Lao...

Yes, he is unsafe when his moves are blocked. Yes, Reptile beats him.

But there is no way to stop him from coming at you unless you have ice clone. Even then that is a free teleport to get in. Dive kick punishes every projectile attempt from near to full screen. Dive kick auto-corrects if you try to avoid it and go under him or teleport away trying to avoid that last hit of chip that would kill you... you still get hit. Spin active frames are there for ever, this is a problem in the corner when he is just out of range...it's very hard to punish/stop and impossible to jump out. His roll attack forces you to respect the spin and thus you block and get thrown or stuck in a blockstring mixup where a scrubby spin comes out randomly.

Teleport Throw is SO STUPID. Yes, you can uppercut it before it happens, you can dash out, you can jump out if you are fast enough, it's slow... yes, I get that. But what about on wakeup? He teleports behind you so you can't do a wakeup attack (afaik), and he is already in prime position to throw you or overhead. If you do a recovery, you are almost guaranteed to be thrown. You can't jump out because the fucking throw grabs you out of the air, which in itself is stupid as hell.

Maybe I'm just venting to losing to a crazy rushdown kung lao player who did hella unsafe shit but got away with it because I failed to punish hard enough. No matter what, he was on top of me and I had to guess to get out and take risk to do so.

Don't get me wrong, I won more games in the set and pretty much started it going 5-0 before the bullshit ensued... but I'm no noob at this game.

I think that Kung Lao is a stupid scrub character and that is not what NRS wants in this game. He needs a nerf...

I agree that In my opinion its the teleport thats the problem. Not so much the other moves. I can deal with those. That damn teleport throw is also a anti-air throw wtf? I think they need to make him pop up higher or something. Right now its still kinda safe if done on wake up its an easy 50/50 guessing game again that can lead to kung having big damage.

I dont think there is a character more complete in the game than Kung Lao.

If not nerf him a bit then buff the other cast a little lol.

Right now I think a High Level Kung will force you to counter pick with Reptile or Sub-zero. I do not approve of counter-picking. lol

 

[R.E.L.]

Lao doesn't need to be nerfed. He is beatable (see Tom Brady vs Perfect Legend @ PowerUP video). People just want to cry about random Lao because they can't figure out how to beat them.

If you want to nerf someone, nerf Perfect Legend =p

 

[DanCock]

there's already a super high level Kung and his name is perfect legend. he knocked everyone starting with myself out of the winners bracket at power up. I don't want to have to drop sindel to have to compete because she doesn't have all the tools to beat a top Kung.

I will say though the game is great, great job on almost everything. but tweaks are needed starting with the spin. that has too much reward then risk.


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[DanCock]

Lao doesn't need to be nerfed. He is beatable (see Tom Brady vs Perfect Legend @ PowerUP video). People just want to cry about random Lao because they can't figure out how to beat them.

If you want to nerf someone, nerf Perfect Legend =p

I won't go there, but trust me that should not have happened. PL IMO after watching him and playing him that whole weekend was not playing at his best, I'm guessing it started when his pad went out. so don't give me that bull shit that he doesn't need a slight nerf.


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[RWDY Nori]

To those of you saying "nerf" and "overpowered", I don't mean this to be insulting but this is an honest question: How much time have you REALLY put into fighting against/as him? I used him for a few weeks myself. Got lots of wins. Don't see anything stupid about him though. Raiden's teleport is way worse and even that isn't gamebreaking.

All I'm saying is, TRULY break down a char, play against him more before forming an opinion..........unless your best buddy plays KL and you play often, then ignore this

 

[DanCock]

To those of you saying "nerf" and "overpowered", I don't mean this to be insulting but this is an honest question: How much time have you REALLY put into fighting against/as him? I used him for a few weeks myself. Got lots of wins. Don't see anything stupid about him though. Raiden's teleport is way worse and even that isn't gamebreaking.

All I'm saying is, TRULY break down a char, play against him more before forming an opinion..........unless your best buddy plays KL and you play often, then ignore this

if this game is truly going for balance then either every character should have every tool to win like Kung Lao or they should actually be lacking in certain areas like Baraka.

I agree raiden should not be able to 2in1 his teleport on blocked strings, I'm a raiden lover and player and I think this is a bit much. on hit he should be able to.


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[THTB]

More experience is definitely needed, for sure. I honestly don't want to see anything but damage nerfed just yet. It's a lot of kneejerk reaction to him. I do think the spin is safer than it should be and armor on EX teleport is messed up, but we'll have to see.

 

[RWDY Nori]

Let's be real: So far, this game is pretty balanced. Yes, there are obvious tiers (go on, say hi Raiden) but overall I think they a fantastic job. KL is very good, no doubt. As playing him from day 1, I'm inclined to agree w/Brady about him moving down a few slots. Hell I thought Raiden was flat out broken when I fought against a good one the first day lol.

I guess I would agree more if his spin/dive kick were safe? The fact you can fuck up both so badly IMO can't make him number 1

 

[oZii]

if this game is truly going for balance then either every character should have every tool to win like Kung Lao or they should actually be lacking in certain areas like Baraka.

I agree raiden should not be able to 2in1 his teleport on blocked strings, I'm a raiden lover and player and I think this is a bit much. on hit he should be able to.


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This is where I agree the problem with Kung is I really dont care about his damage to much he doesnt have Ermac damage unless you get caught with a xray combo or corner combo.

The problem with Kung Lao is the Sentinel problem that if you are not using Raiden or Sub-Zero or Reptile. You have to put in more work than your opponent. Thats a problem. I am saying this and I use Scorpion and I dont have alot of problem with kungs. I just have to work alot harder.

 

[Lady Death]

KL and Rai won't be the last characters discovered to be able to turn heads. I like what I have seen in this thread about waiting it out. I'm sure we'll discover more and new shit that will result in KL not needing to be nerfed.

Last I heard GG is even still having tier lists created after how long AC has been out.

 

[DaiHuu]

Ermak counters Nigthwolf very hard and can zone him very well.

I don't believe that. I've played several Ermac's and I never had trouble getting in on one. Maybe I haven't played the more experienced ones like Micheal Angelo, Mkf30 and a few others, but it's not a very hard counter pick, if at all. One of the tools NW has to get in is his shoulder and ex shoulder, ex shoulder goes full screen and is safe on block and i'm pretty sure NW can punish anything he blocks that's a special from Ermac as well besides the fireball.

 

[R.E.L.]

I won't go there, but trust me that should not have happened. PL IMO after watching him and playing him that whole weekend was not playing at his best, I'm guessing it started when his pad went out. so don't give me that bull shit that he doesn't need a slight nerf.


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Did you not see my last sentence? I am in NO way talking down to Perfect Legend's playing at all. To be honest, I think he's the best MK player right now to beat.

On a side note: Loved your Sindel. And I agree that the low tier chars need a boost of some sort. There are still many glitches and bugs in the game too that do need to be addressed.

 

[RWDY Nori]

Right now I think a High Level Kung will force you to counter pick with Reptile or Sub-zero. I do not approve of counter-picking. lol

I don't know anything about Reptile, so how exactly is he a counter pick to KL?

 

[Action Kungfu]

I think in general the game's risk/reward needs to be tweaked.

If a move by itself making contact, can lead to lots of damage, then said move should be punishable on guard by a percentage of the possible damage minimum, in conjunction with how easy or common the move is to land during matches. For example if an extremely fast starting move(relative to a character's movelist and the cast's movelist) on contact can lead to 40% damage combo, the punishment should at least be 20% on guard, more on whiff. If it's a move that has a slow starting period, then that changes things, if it's an extremely fast starting move then 20% still isn't a strong enough punishment.

So as it stands, the risk/reward on the spin is unbalanced because the move is extremely fast and utility, at the same time leading to a large reward. It's MORE work for the opponent to actually react to the moves recovery to be even be able to punish it. Also, using the example of the spin again, if it can be comboed into from very fast strikes then the damage after the move should be scaled way down or the possibility to combo into the move should be removed from the fastest strikes.

You can generally tell how good a move is, based on how much ground it covers, it's start up speed, and the reward from that.

Even if the Spin gets its recovery nerfed for an easier time punishing, it's STILL going to be an amazing move. Because the start up itself lends the move to land all the time.

Just have to look at the risk/reward, on the most commonly landed moves for a character, to determine a character's strength.

Kung Lao has a pretty skewed risk/reward. However, I think a lot of the moves in the game do too, some launchers are completely safe on guard is hilarious with their potential damage output. Also some strings that you can't break inbetween, that have launchers at the end or just some completed strings in general being either completely safe or even frame advantage on guard is mad funny when they're moves you can't even crouch under.

 

[Juggs]

The spin just needs more recovery, and slightly slower start-up. Another one of the problems is that the Spin is just . It's too easy to perform. That's more of a personal annoyance with all of the special moves though, as a UMK3 player. All the specials are dumbed down to be easier to perform.

 

[RWDY Nori]

The spin just needs more recovery, and slightly slower start-up. Another one of the problems is that the Spin is just . It's too easy to perform. That's more of a personal annoyance with all of the special moves though, as a UMK3 player. All the specials are dumbed down to be easier to perform.

This is probably a different topic, but since you brought up how moves are easier, it's just something we old school players have to accept. Games are easier and easier cause new gamers are lazier and lazier. No longer will new school players spend hours in the lab perfecting hard combos/moves, now they pop on the internet and do easy moves. Otherwise, people quit. SF4, Tekken 5 and beyond, HD Remix, MvC3, I can go on. Games are just easier today sadly, but I'm VERY proud of NRS for not only pleasing the new school, but making the old school VERY happy also

Sorry for the off topic rant

 

[REO]

First, I just want to say no to nerfing any char three weeks into the game, it's just retarded and people should at least wait a few months before claiming this and that is too good. Second, Kung lao is supposedly #6 on Tom's tier list, so if Kung Lao gets any nerf, the five above him better get nerfed as well, none of this biased shit.

 

[Juggs]

This is probably a different topic, but since you brought up how moves are easier, it's just something we old school players have to accept. Games are easier and easier cause new gamers are lazier and lazier. No longer will new school players spend hours in the lab perfecting hard combos/moves, now they pop on the internet and do easy moves. Otherwise, people quit. SF4, Tekken 5 and beyond, HD Remix, MvC3, I can go on. Games are just easier today sadly, but I'm VERY proud of NRS for not only pleasing the new school, but making the old school VERY happy also

Sorry for the off topic rant

Yeah, I know. But them changing the inputs of the specials is kinda lame. It would be like changing Ryu's Fireball command to or something.

First, I just want to say no to nerfing any char three weeks into the game, it's just retarded and people should at least wait a few months before claiming this and that is too good. Second, Kung lao is supposedly #6 on Tom's tier list, so if Kung Lao gets any nerf, the five above him better get nerfed as well, none of this biased shit.

Agreed on no nerfing right now. But I wouldn't care if they did nerf Kung's spin right now.

 

[GStick]

^Maybe they plan to leave the inputs and moves the same for future games? It does get a little old with specials and normals changing every time a new game comes out.

 

[oZii]

First, I just want to say no to nerfing any char three weeks into the game, it's just retarded and people should at least wait a few months before claiming this and that is too good. Second, Kung lao is supposedly #6 on Tom's tier list, so if Kung Lao gets any nerf, the five above him better get nerfed as well, none of this biased shit.

I seems general consensus among ol school and new school MK players that the spin needs a slight nerf. I don think a few months is need to determine that. Its not like everyone is going to all of a sudden say the spin is fine. It will continue to go unpunished by anything but a throw.

Right now the only way to punish the spin is to read your opponents tendencies as in will he use it a wake up, will he ex, is he reading that Im jumping after this block string.

The spin is Kung Laos free combo move. Most of the cast has a move like this, Kung Lao is the only one that can't be punished like the other cast. Its like if Scorpion's spear was completely safe up close or Ermacs TKS was completely safe up close or Reptile or Kabal could spam dash with minimal fear.

I think Ermac's TKS is a good comparison to kung lao's spin. Kungs spin leads to 40% easy Ermacs leads to 40% easy. Its pretty safe out side of sweep distance but you can't spam TKS up close. The spin can be used with impunity. It forces you to not jump at all.

The Match on WNF with Krazie and Justin was a good example. Krazie was jumping at justin and eating the 30-40% but Ermac can do that cause he can dish out 40% consistently. Some characters can't compete with that damage.

 

[dookieagain]

Come on you guys lets not scream nerf just yet, we don't want another Sentinel incident on our hands, lets play it out a bit longer.

I know everyone hated on Capcom for the Sentinel nerf, and people swore he was suddenly useless, but I can't help but notice that at last night's WNF Sentinel was still on over half of the top 10 teams. So maybe . . . just maybe it was a good nerf?

 

[Sequel]

LOL @ Kung nerfs. Watch grand finals between Tom and PL again. Take notes. I've analyzed why PL lost, have you? (it's pretty obvious)