General/Other - Mileena The Mileena General Discussion Thread (All Variations)

[TheGabStandard]

I think we'd all gladly lose the armor in exchange for the overhead lol.

Hmmm.......I don't know about that.

 

[Anseyf]

Although I could live with playing the FOTM for a while, making the F3 faster could be troublesome for the reasons JDE mentioned. Besides making her other variations useful I don't see any need to balance her further, but if they want to make her low Sai being plus or neutral on hit that would be great.

 

[Endding]

Got to see some Sonic Fox's Mileena today from sets he had a while back, made me pick up Ravenous again.

After going from Eth>Rav>Pierc I can say I'm actually enjoying Rav more than I ever did. I honestly thought Rav wasn't strong enough compared to Piercing but my mind has definitely been changed. This variation can be deadly at times and the gimmicks fit perfectly with her.

Hoping to see some Mileena's at combo breaker, I wish any Mileena mains Good Luck : )

 

[TheGabStandard]

I do hope that NRS take into consideration of 3 being an overhead, though. I doubt that they'll change f3 because of how much of damage that it leads to. If they were to change the speed of f3, then it would HAVE to be unsafe on block & the damage would have to be toned down a bit.

wholly agree

 

[Ninjaguy446]

kung jins is overhead though and has pretty much the same animation



i wouldnt

Hmmm.......I don't know about that.

Oh, I completely read his post wrong. I'd definitely want to keep F1 as an armor breaking move, but I barely use 3 for that function. What do you guys think of just 3 being an overhead?

 

[JDE]

Got to see some Sonic Fox's Mileena today from sets he had a while back, made me pick up Ravenous again.

After going from Eth>Rav>Pierc I can say I'm actually enjoying Rav more than I ever did. I honestly thought Rav wasn't strong enough compared to Piercing but my mind has definitely been changed. This variation can be deadly at times and the gimmicks fit perfectly with her.

Hoping to see some Mileena's at combo breaker, I wish any Mileena mains Good Luck : )

Did he save them in his archives?

 

[JDE]

Oh, I completely read his post wrong. I'd definitely want to keep F1 as an armor breaking move, but I barely use 3 for that function. What do you guys think of just 3 being an overhead?

I do hope that NRS take into consideration of 3 being an overhead, though. I doubt that they'll change f3 because of how much of damage that it leads to. If they were to change the speed of f3, then it would HAVE to be unsafe on block & the damage would have to be toned down a bit.

I do hope that NRS take into consideration of 3 being an overhead, though. I doubt that they'll change f3 because of how much of damage that it leads to. If they were to change the speed of f3, then it would HAVE to be unsafe on block & the damage would have to be toned down a bit.

The reason why if they would have to either change f3's safety (make it punishable) or tone down damage output to it & its strings is because it would even out the exchange for us having a better overhead starter. It would be a fair balance for other characters as well. Now, some of you may bring up how good Reptile's & Sub-Zero's overheads are, but Reptile in general needs his meter for most of his combos to even out his safety. Sub-Zero's overhead is punishable, but most of his damage comes from the corner rather than mid floor. So that's a fair trade. Same for Mileena if they were to change her overhead.

So basically this, pick your poison:

• If you make f3 FASTER with the damage output to f3 & it's strings being as strong as they are, then the SAFTEY would have to go.
• If you make f3 FASTER with the safety still being there, then the DAMAGE output from this & its strings would have to be decreased to where she doesn't get over 40%.

Making 3 an overhead starter however, we get a hard knockdown which I'm 100% on board with, too. She would get the oki/tech situations. Scorpion's overheads in 2 of his varations (inferno & hellfire) are like that & they lead to really good oki shenanigans. Plus, you wouldn't have to change f3 around at all.

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

I do hope that NRS take into consideration of 3 being an overhead, though. I doubt that they'll change f3 because of how much of damage that it leads to. If they were to change the speed of f3, then it would HAVE to be unsafe on block & the damage would have to be toned down a bit.

The reason why if they would have to change f3's safety & damage output to it is because it would even out the exchange for us having a better overhead starter. Making 3 an overhead starter however, we get a hard knockdown which I'm 100% on board with, too. Scorpion's overheads are like that & they lead to really good oki shenanigans.

Agreeeeeed all day

 

[Ninjaguy446]

Did he save them in his archives?

Yes he did, it's from last Sunday.

 

[JDE]

I'm going to watch them sometime today. Thanks.

Also, I made a typo, I edited my post before this.

 

[JDE]

I'm going to watch them sometime today. Thanks.

Also, I made a typo, I edited my post before this.

@Ninjaguy446 do you know around the time that he starts in the archives video?

 

[Ninjaguy446]

@Ninjaguy446 do you know around the time that he starts in the archives video?

Sonicfox uses Mileena in the streams at these times:
Last Sunday (5/17) 56:00
5/14 1:06:00
5/12 1:00:00
5/9 45:00

 

[qspec]

I feel like I should state my 2 cents since I'm one of the people that abandoned her because I think she's bad.

Her frames suck. Some of the slowest start-up in the game. To the point that if she gets forced to block, she really doesn't ever get a turn until her opponent tries something negative or she mashes out an armored move. And frankly, she doesn't have the range to justify that (look at the Kenshi cries who is sitting on similar data). She's too frame negative to play upclose or full screen (my Reptile can get a punish from near full screen on a whiffed air sai), but she's also too short ranged to play mid screen.

She also is much easier to block against than a lot of people. This in itself isn't inherently harmful, but she has to take massive risks (like -30 massive) to make big damage happen, so I think the deck is stacked against her and the offensive risks she takes skew against her.

I think she lacks scaleability. This is just a prediction by nature, but I think 6 months from now, she's going to be where she's at now with everyone knowing how she works, and she's going to drop off dramatically. I think you have already seen a taste of that in some tournaments, but I think it will get a lot worse. Like I said, this is just me pointing at the fence, so feel free to call me out on it in half a year.

 

[ZeroEffect]

I gotta agree with the frames and the range arguments. She doesn't need to be a rushdown 50/50 character to have better startup/block frames, and some forward movement (123, D1, and standing 4 jump out in my mind). In fact, I'd argue that not being a 50/50 character makes her NEED these things more to create pressure.

I'm enjoying playing Mileena, and think she has room for growth still, but when you know what to look for in what makes characters "Extremely Good" vs "Just Ok", the issues with her normals are worrisome. It never mattered to me if people here were being positive or negative, so long as what they have to say has some sound logic. Nothing wrong with having hope and labbing things, feel free, but simply feeling positive has never made a character's tools better.

Someone once told me this about UMvC3, and it honestly applies to a lot of fighting games:
"Characters that have a tool for every situation are, at best, lower-mid tier. Because, to be mid-tier you need to be well-rounded with a side of Bullshit."

Granted, I've yet to play a matchup where I felt 100% helpless, (online lag not withstanding), but I haven't played all matchups yet either.

 

[JDE]

I'm all for voicing thoughts. That's why we're here. Like I would voice my opinion on why I feel a character would be pretty bad, too. It's just I wouldn't keep posting about to peers constantly about how bad she supposed to be to folks who want to keep playing them is all. Some think she's decent, some think she's bad. Just opinions.

It's just the general thought process of how some people work. Like some will give their brutally honest opinion, leave it at that, & keep working at it (myself included). Or find another character to play. Others will keep dwelling on it & then when someone asks for info or want to play a character of interest, they'll fill them up with posts discouraging them to play them rather than what they need to know in order to play them (or beat them). This is what I usually avoid because of how annoying forums can be.

It shouldn't discourage anyone from playing who they want, but sadly it does.

 

[ZeroEffect]

I'm all for voicing thoughts. That's why we're here. Like I would voice my opinion on why I feel a character would be pretty bad, too. It's just I wouldn't keep posting about to peers constantly about how bad she supposed to folks who want to keep playing them is all.

when someone asks for info or want to play a character of interest, they'll fill them up with posts discouraging them to play them rather than what they need to know in order to play them (or beat them). This is what I usually avoid because of how annoying forums can be.

Well yeah, this I agree with. It's usually done as a warning, but yeah sometimes you just gotta let people decide for themselves if the character is worth playing or not. There is a middle ground. Some people on these forums forget that though, and focus on bashing anyone who isn't a blind optimist. (It's just so much easier to tell others to "stop whining" and look cool.)

There's still time to develop strats, and there's still patches incoming down the road. No one truly knows where any of these characters could be a year from now. The current Mileena, imo, is a solid character. It's just that you also have characters who are ridiculous.

 

[llxPeeKABooxll]

Honestly it would be awesome if her F3 got decreased start up frames from 32 to 20-25 or sum and the third hit in her F3, 4, 3 string hit overhead.

Also the reason I think they gave Mileena mediocre range and many bad frames across the board on start-up and block advantage is because of how many options she actually has. Just think, what other characters have 2-3 projectiles(air,ground,low), a teleport that also doubles as a divekick, an advancing low profile move that also is a launcher, several anti airs, armored overhead x-ray that can be easily comboed into 50%, good air to air, armored wake-up move, 2 reliable armor breaking moves, consistent 25-40% meterless damage, command grabs, extra teles, 50/50 game (even though its unsafe and unreliable). I think her having so many options actually cripples her because they feel they have to balance out the amount of options she has by making most of those options mediocre or bad.

 

[ZeroEffect]

Also the reason I think they gave Mileena mediocre range and many bad frames across the board on start-up and block advantage is because of how many options she actually has. I think her having so many options actually cripples her because they feel they have to balance out the amount of options she has by making most of those options mediocre or bad.

I kinda see what you're trying to say, she does have a lot of options, but these aren't all in one variation. If you combined all 3 variations into one, then yeah, that'd be fucking beast. And it's kind of already balanced out because they're all really unsafe options. I think she SHOULD be unsafe on her specials. But losing in the neutral game with her normals forces her to rely on the unsafe specials more than a healthy amount.

A little off-topic, but who knows... it could just take some tweaking of game mechanics to make a difference. What if block breakers only cost one bar of meter and 50% stamina? What if her backdash was a bit better? or backdash in general only cost 25% stamina? What if D3s and D1s no longer hit you out of jumps?

 

[qspec]

I get that she has everything, but for the most part, they are all shitty. Out of her entire kit, roll and standing sai are solid. The rest have a pretty fatal flaw. Dive kick as an example is minus on hit. So for <10% damage you put yourself at minus, semi-point blank with shitty normals. You've mostly put yourself right where your opponent would want you to be, so you are relegated to using it as an anti-air. Roll is only good on confirm or punish. And so on.

Remember, this game is fairly new so people are falling to hi-jinx and lag-filled bullshit. These random rolls that get Mileena players by won't sustain her for too long. I've mentioned it before, but watching Wong's Raiden wreck the Mileena at the Texas Showdown is, unfortunately, the future for Mileena, I think (seriously, watch it and watch how little Justin had to block low).

I try not to bring it up too often, but there is this bizarre narrative that Kenshi is busted weak and Mileena is fine... but Mileena is sitting on almost the exact same issues that he is and in some cases her situation is worse.

So I mention it because I'd love to hear how Mileena is supposed to scale over time once people learn her data and moveset... because my hypothesis is that she won't for the reasons I've mentioned before. But I'm usually countered by some form of "she's fine" without any real substance.

Then I go through looking for advice to level up my game, and most of the advice ends up being "do something stupid unsafe sometimes"... which is exactly what I think is the issue.

I love a lot about the character, and I love discussing her, so I'm probably not going anywhere. But I'm also not some ideologue who just thinks anyone I play sucks (there is the wrong belief that Reptile needs buffs that I actively try and argue against as well).

 

[ZeroEffect]

Dive kick as an example is minus on hit. So for <10% damage you put yourself at minus, semi-point blank with shitty normals.

Oh btw, Telekick was buffed in the patch so she has a ton of advantage on hit now. Enough to where delayed air sai and X-ray(which you can do in the air now too) are guaranteed combos. Opponent can't even get off the ground if you do B12 immediately.

 

[Endding]

Thread keeps coming back to 'Mileena is bad' which is beyond me quite frankly.

In the wise words of Mr Mileena "She's a viable character, that will just have to work a little harder to keep up with the top tier characters"

 

[qspec]

So I mention it because I'd love to hear how Mileena is supposed to scale over time once people learn her data and moveset... because my hypothesis is that she won't for the reasons I've mentioned before. But I'm usually countered by some form of "she's fine" without any real substance.

Thread keeps coming back to 'Mileena is bad' which is beyond me quite frankly.

In the wise words of Mr Mileena "She's a viable character, that will just have to work a little harder to keep up with the top tier characters"

@ZeroEffect

Yeah I read that. I wasn't sure where it left us. Minus but safe? Positive? Whatever. That is a solid change. Sadly I'm on PC and still waiting, waiting, waiting.

 

[Endding]

That wasn't directed at you, was a summary of this thread.

If you have played Mileena since Day One, and believe she is a bad character nothing I say is going to change that.

 

[ZeroEffect]

That wasn't directed at you, was a summary of this thread.

If you have played Mileena since Day One, and believe she is a bad character nothing I say is going to change that.

Well, maybe look at it this way. For me, it's not about whether she's "viable" or "fine" or "good" or "bad". I just try to focus on where I think she's strong, and where I think she's weak. Don't get so caught up in the labels if that's what's bothering you. Understanding a character's pros and cons is important.

 

[qspec]

But here's the problem... I'm not hearing it from anyone. There are almost no arguments as to why she's a good character. It just seems to be granted with phrases like "she's being slept on", "she's going to be good", or "she's fine". So I freely admit, maybe I'm missing something. Maybe the frames don't tell the whole story.

Keep in mind too that I don't think she's bad right now. In the lag of online (of which there is plenty), you can't keep her bullshit honest. Plus, I think people are still learning her. I was getting away with f3 shenanigans at neutral far, far more than I should, which at 30+ frames of start up isn't just reactable but straight punishable.

This is the last time I'll bring it up specifically (since literally no one is addressing... adding to my first paragraph), but the Texas Showdown was telling.

Handy switched to Mileena and started doing fairly well. Rolls were catching people all day and we all know that Mileena gets dope damage from rolls. Then he gets to top 16 vs Justin Wong's Raiden... Wong apparently knows how to block Mileena, and that he doesn't have to show her any respect once she gets put into block stun, and it ends badly.

But seriously, look at how Wong's blocking. He barely has to touch low block. So yeah, I think Mileena like in this video is a predictable mess of bad frames. What tech am I missing that carries her another 6 months into almost-top-tier?

Wong v Handy

I'll stop being so verbose, but please... someone... tell me why she's going to be good?