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Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

Quantus

Rain for MK12 Kombat Pack 3
I think my biggest concern with Raiden moving forward is the second hit of B31 being punishable on flawless block.
 

Gruntypants

THE MUFFINS ARE BEEFY
After playing Raiden since release I've realized he's pretty trash. And I don't think the balance patch fixes his biggest weakness: breakaway
 
Hahaha, guys – the jig is up:
Learn to hit-confirm it or face the consequences, folks. Let's move beyond week 1 tactics. It might catch some counterpokes now and then but it's definitely not worth the hard commit.

I legitimately uninstalled the game after fighting some dumbwit who was spamming that all the match. I couldn't believe a free launcher that does a lot of chip damage and is absurdsly easy to connect was literally unpunishable no matter what I tried. Obviously it wasn't the only reason (the other being 80% of the online players being Noob Saibots spamming proyectiles until they finally land the teleport and connect into a 35-40% combo, because if there's something a toxic zoner needs is an easy 40% combo).

Good to see it's actually punishable and that I'm dumb, but there's a lot of toxic stuff in this game. I can't stand another minute of 50/50 throw spamming. They get rid of a lot of 50/50s but keep it for the throws, lmao. No thanks.
 

Gruntypants

THE MUFFINS ARE BEEFY

I legitimately uninstalled the game after fighting some dumbwit who was spamming that all the match. I couldn't believe a free launcher that does a lot of chip damage and is absurdsly easy to connect was literally unpunishable no matter what I tried. Obviously it wasn't the only reason (the other being 80% of the online players being Noob Saibots spamming proyectiles until they finally land the teleport and connect into a 35-40% combo, because if there's something a toxic zoner needs is an easy 40% combo).

Good to see it's actually punishable and that I'm dumb, but there's a lot of toxic stuff in this game. I can't stand another minute of 50/50 throw spamming. They get rid of a lot of 50/50s but keep it for the throws, lmao. No thanks.
Git gud scrub
 

Quantus

Rain for MK12 Kombat Pack 3

I legitimately uninstalled the game after fighting some dumbwit who was spamming that all the match. I couldn't believe a free launcher that does a lot of chip damage and is absurdsly easy to connect was literally unpunishable no matter what I tried. Obviously it wasn't the only reason (the other being 80% of the online players being Noob Saibots spamming proyectiles until they finally land the teleport and connect into a 35-40% combo, because if there's something a toxic zoner needs is an easy 40% combo).

Good to see it's actually punishable and that I'm dumb, but there's a lot of toxic stuff in this game. I can't stand another minute of 50/50 throw spamming. They get rid of a lot of 50/50s but keep it for the throws, lmao. No thanks.
Delete this, nephew.
 

kabelfritz

Master
f4 is -3, b4 is -5


How does f2 jail into b31? Isn't f2 minus? I thought the only normal that was plus on block was s3 at +3, and 321 at +1?
lol why do i keep messing up the frame data?

anyway, here are some high damage undroppable thunder wave bnbs:

midscreen:

f22~db2AMP, late jf2, f4~db2

can be done with any starter and also on small hitbox characters. can be extended also with f4~db2AMP jf3~airbf3 (does not work from b13 starter, gotta use raw bf3 after the second db2AMP)

corner:

f22~db2AMP, j3, 4~db2

any starter and same extension rules as the midscreen combo.

i use db2 as ender because it has a tiny bit more damage and 2/3 screen positioning which is optimal for raiden imo.
 

BRAZILIAN SHEEP

Apprentice
Anyone really look into Raiden's buttons for AA? Idk what the hitbox hurtbox looks like but I can get all basic standing buttons to hit jumping dummy in training. His 3 and 4 hit pretty high. Even got S3 to hit the dummy jumping but Raiden didn't switch directions. Haven't tested it in a game scenario.
I tested it. Standing 1 for short range and b1 for long range. Both work well....specially the b1.
 

JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
Raiden has Uncle JBeezY's eye on who to try next. Raiden has always been one of my OG favorites but Im hearing mixed reviews tho. On one hand, people are saying his frames are not good, but on the other he's really fun to play and he looks smooth as fuck! What are y'all takes on him ?Question mark?
 
Raiden has Uncle JBeezY's eye on who to try next. Raiden has always been one of my OG favorites but Im hearing mixed reviews tho. On one hand, people are saying his frames are not good, but on the other he's really fun to play and he looks smooth as fuck! What are y'all takes on him ?Question mark?
I am liking Raiden a ton in MK11, but...

He feels awkward: he has a bunch of moves (bf3, f2, f4, b11) that advance him, but he has basically no great options once you're in someones face. To me that means you're fishing for whiff punishes almost exclusively as you're going to lose in an honest pressure bout.

His projectiles exist more as a check to other peoples zoning, since they are quick once they come out but mediocre otherwise.

That being said, if you're Raiden and someone jumps in the air for any reason, they're your bitch :)

Oh and b31 is my favourite string in the game so far (his only corner tech?)
 

Cosmic Forge

Practice mode noob
Raiden has Uncle JBeezY's eye on who to try next. Raiden has always been one of my OG favorites but Im hearing mixed reviews tho. On one hand, people are saying his frames are not good, but on the other he's really fun to play and he looks smooth as fuck! What are y'all takes on him ?Question mark?
He's not the offensive 50/50 beast he was in MKX, so I think that has disappointed a lot of people.

I compare his style to more like Yoshimitsu in Tekken now than anything, for a few reasons. First, his style is meant to bait and frustrate the opponent out of their shell. Teleport and moves like b,f+3 (hold or cancel) are meant to irritate and punish those who like to push too many buttons. His unique Quick Charge move (variation move) is similar to Yoshimitsu's Flash in Tekken; they're both the fastest move in the game and are meant to punish moves NOTHING else can (realistically anything -5 or slower).

His only 50/50 requires setting up, and even then executing it is extremely timing-heavy and puts you at more risk than them (bad ratio) IMO. At one point in the closed beta I heard you could at least cancel the first hit into something to make it safe, but no longer.

As Shaggy said, he's got some of the best long range punishers in the game with F+2, F+4 and F+1,1.

All in all, Raiden is a character for defensive players mostly. If you're good at getting hard reads and have fast reactions, his teleport, quick charge, and f+4 will get you mileage.
 

Mahjunia

Noob
So, I don't consider my self a super bad player but I'm not super good either... Lets leave it that I can fight.

And here are my thoughts bout Raiden:
- He can't apply pressure like he did in MKX with the cancels, this means that when you're in your opponents face and you finished your "turn" prepare yourself because you can't contest It.

- His projectiles sucks, he can't zone and doesn't stand a chance against an projectiles war. They're so slow in start UPS that I think it might be one of the worsts projectiles in the game. The lighting IS good when you knockdown in fullscreen and if you leave your opponent in midscreen it's risky to use It.

- We have to work the double than others, this means that we need to be patience, bait and punish, play with spaces and B12 whiff punish. B31-superman cancel to f4 IS fcking great or B12-superman cancel ir f4 Superman cancel to b32.

- I have to start using TP more after B12 for example but I feel people have such an reaction that they just press buttons and fcks up tps (aka smashers when someone tps lmao). Also I should start changing my gamestyle/plan since I'm playing him like if he was a rushdown trying to apply pressure but it's impossible.

Anyways he's super fun to play and when you get in autopilot Mode and make your opponent Guess they eat everything.

Edit: wish he could cancel the projectile like sonya's even if we have Superman cancel or a + string xD

Edit2: Holly shiat, I've just read the Guy before my MSG and mines looks similar to his. I didn't copy even if It looks like, I apologize.
 
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Cosmic Forge

Practice mode noob
Edit2: Holly shiat, I've just read the Guy before my MSG and mines looks similar to his. I didn't copy even if It looks like, I apologize.
Great minds think alike? But yeah, he definitely doesn't fit the zoner or the rushdown style. It really is defensive. How people survive without teleport either amazes me. His teleport is so good when you get a hard read on a projectile.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
With my limited experience with Raiden, I don’t feel he’s bad at all. F32 and F3 staggers are alright up close, f4 and f2 are great whiff punishers, so is f11. B31 is great on block and on hit since it pushes back and you can bait a whiff with superman cancel, on hit you can confirm into storm cell for good damage. B12 is a good forward advancing mid and a nice whiff punisher. His d3 and d4 are good as well with nice range. If anything I wish F3 wasn’t so minus, so his staggers are a bit more dangerous, and I wish his projectiles were faster and had more hit advantage, but hey what do I know about being good at fighting games.
 

Gruntypants

THE MUFFINS ARE BEEFY
Raiden is garbage because he gets full combo punished and loses his meter if the opponent does breakaway after b31 but before storm cell. There I said it.

Also his jump ins kinda suck, which is typical for this game I suppose, he has 1 good string and 2 ok ones. The other strings are useless or worse. His pokes are good but his damage blows and he has no mixups.
 

Gruntypants

THE MUFFINS ARE BEEFY
Ah, you're not playing correctly man. B31 isn't his main starter and it's hit confirmable from a mile a way. Raiden never gets full combo punish from his launcher. You case use storm cell - ji2 - f2 - 12 - fly or ji2 - ji3 which will not leave you within punishing range. Or you can just d2 for unbreakable safe damage if I'm correct.

You are right about his 2 jump in punches though. They're exceptionally bad even for the game.
No you're missing the point, it's not about hit confirming. Also I'm playing on PC so B31 and f32 are the only safe strings. Even after the patch b12 is garbage at -9 and isn't worth using against an opponent who knows how to play the match up. F11 is ok after getting patched but it's still not that great.

I suggest you re-read my original post.
 

Mahjunia

Noob
Maybe the key to raiden IS mastering the TP but even if you use It to go full screen... I feel like everyone is gonna beat me with a projectile, it's so slow man Maybe lighting strike (is It called like that?) can have a chance. Will try.

edit: what string would you guys use after B12 TP in his face f32, grab, 243? Or Maybe trying tp rb since the animation IS superfast.
 

ogrimtitan

Mortal
I may be wrong, but I have the strong impression that Raiden, at least in Thunder Wave variation, is meant to spend most of both his bars on controlling the space (not the pace) of the match. Between 5 different teleports and his superman cancels, it's almost impossible for your opponent to have a good idea where you're going to be from one moment to the next. Once you get them off-balance a bit and they're swinging at air, the utility of his long-range pokes opens up a lot more.

I still haven't found a good use for Raijin variation. :/
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
I think I remember you posting tech about Atom in I2. To use him as an example here: you can't compare atom's normal's and frame data to any other character in that game, because the character is not meant to play like any other character. Raiden's not exactly like that, but he doesn't play by the rules of this game either (Neutral heavy). He's kind of meant to play keep away until his bar refills so you can start playing mind games again with Teleports/ superman cancels/ and staggers. What do you think? If I had to guess, I'd say he'd get a few positive tweets, but nothing major.
I think he plays the neutral game quite well. He has a presence everywhere on the screen. He can harass people fullscreen with his lightning bolt and lightning strike (which shuts down jumping), at half screen you worry about f4 and f2 whiff punishing careless button presses, both are -3 and safe, Raiden can also do superman cancels which creates distance and safety. Up close he's much weaker but he has an eleven frame mid into overhead (f32) which he can kind of stagger. His d3 and d4 are good, and d3 should guarantee f3 since it's +12 on hit, so once f32 is established you can go for f3, throw, which puts them half screen which is where he plays his whiff punishing game again. At least that's how I'll play him once I get superman cancels into my muscle memory and I stop misjudging f4 range.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
Perhaps I should have said rush down game. I've spotted a lot of people playing him like you ought to play Jax for instance.

As for the f4 range problem. I've actually been using 21 (stand 2) into superman a lot . The pop up on s21 actually allows you to hold the the 3 of bf3 and then release if it hits or cancel if they block it for safety. Give it a shot.
Nice, I'll steal that thanks. He's not without threat during rushdown, when they are conditioned to block low and they get hit by a b2, the next scenario they get put in is pure panic since the threat of KB is always there. Though usually I tend to back off after I land a superman.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
The only real gripe I have with Raiden right now is I don't have the gear and skin that I really want for him right now. I want that God of Thunder skin but I have no clue whatsoever how to unlock it. As for whether he's actually bad it's far too early to tell. I'm all for making him OP though ;p
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
I actually kind of like the Raijin variation... I just wish he could combo off one of the added specials the staff lighting slam or the low staff special. But man the low staff special has a fuck ton of range I love it.