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Match-Up Discussion - Kotal Kahn Kotal Kahn Match-Up Discussion

RYX

RYX

BIG PUSHER
Since we don't have one yet, big WIP

Cassie Cage​

Special Ops:

Hollywood:

Brawler:


D'vorah
​
Venomous:

Brood Mother:

Swarm Queen:
Ermac
​
Spectral:

Mystic:

Master of Souls

Erron Black
​
Marksman:

Gunslinger:

Outlaw:

Ferra/Torr
​
Lackey:

Ruthless:

Vicious:

Goro
​
Tigrar Fury:

Kuatan Warrior:

Dragon Fangs:

Jacqui Briggs
​
High Tech:

Shotgun:

Full Auto:

Jackson Briggs
​
Wrestler:

Heavy Weapons:

Pumped Up:

Jason Voorhees
​
Unstoppable:

Slasher:

Relentless:

Johnny Cage
​
A-List:

Fisticuffs:

Stunt Double:

Kano
​
Commando:

Cutthroat:

Cybernetic:

Kenshi
​
Kenjutsu:

Balanced:

Possessed:

Kitana
​
Mournful:

Royal Storm:

Assassin:

Kotal Kahn
​
Sun God:

Blood God:

War God:

Kung Jin
​
Shaolin:

Ancestral:

Bojutsu:

Kung Lao
​
Hat Trick:

Tempest:

Buzzsaw:

Liu Kang
​
Dualist:

Fire Fist:

Dragon Fire:

Mileena
​
Ravenous:

Piercing:

Ethereal:

Predator
​
Variation 1:

Variation 2:

Variation 3:

Quan Chi
​
Summoner:

Sorceror:

Warlock:

Raiden
​
Master of Storms:

Thunder God:

Displacer:

Reptile
​
Noxious:

Deceptive:

Nimble:

Scorpion
​
Inferno:

Ninjutsu:

Hellfire:

Shinnok
​
Necromancer:

Impostor:

Bone Shaper:
Sonya Blade
​
Demolitions:

Covert Ops:

Special Forces:

Sub-Zero
​
Grandmaster: Pick War God. Sub-Zero's ability to shut down parts of the screen makes it difficult for Sun and Blood God to mount an offense or punish a mistake. War God's combination of reach and readily available armor makes it ideal for dealing with clones, as well as stopping the Lin Kuei leader from reversing you into the corner if you pin him down.

Cryomancer:

Unbreakable:

Takeda
​
Ronin:

Shirai Ryu:

Lasher:

Tanya
​
​

Tremor
​


​
 
Last edited:
RYX

RYX

BIG PUSHER
Discuss each match-up individually and which Kotal variation you think is best for each. I'd prefer not putting numbers because they move discussion away from the matchup itself.
 
SHAOLIN

SHAOLIN

内部冲突
@RYX this awesome.


Sub-Zero (GM) V. Kotal Khan (WG)

Just want to get the discussion started with these two characters and their variations.
 
SepticFir8

SepticFir8

Noob
RYX said:
Discuss each match-up individually and which Kotal variation you think is best for each. I'd prefer not putting numbers because they move discussion away from the matchup itself.
Click to expand...
How do you want people to contribute? I'm not a Kotal Kahn master, but I'd be happy to give a little bit of insight.
 
Belial

Belial

Noob
Despite my actual critism of Kotal Sun and Blood variation I belive Blood God is a fairly good counter to War God
 
SepticFir8

SepticFir8

Noob
Johnny Cage; A-List;

Using War God; The only place where Johnny Cage has any advantage on you is from a full-screen distance. He can zone Kotal out easily. From about a jump distance away, the match is even. Use footsies and mixups and you'll be fine.

Johnny Cage can't threaten you with low attacks as much as his overheads, so be sure to stand block more than crouch block. Kotal's D1 can beat out a lot of JC's strings, so be sure to throw it out once in a while if you feel pressured.
 
ShanxterX

ShanxterX

@shanxterx follow me hoes
If you don't have meter against Sonya covert ops it is a disaster she can rush you down like no other with her broken ridiculous strings into military stance. Best way for kotal to win in this match up is to rush her down like crazy and gotta bait her drive kick and cartwheel and punish hard
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
The Goro KW matchup is a disaster for Sun god. Blood god in theory does pretty good against KW and War god should do just fine simply because he can anti air.

The problem in this matchup is armour and anti air, goro gets to jump in for free and pressure you freely in the corner. D2 doesn't work against his JK and EX Sun choke means you're still in the corner.
 
potatobrain

potatobrain

Noob
Yo! Anyone have info on the SubZero GM matchup? I play War God, and I'm unsure exactly how to deal with a SubZero who sits behind an ice clone all day.
 
mkl

mkl

Poopbutt.
potatobrain said:
Yo! Anyone have info on the SubZero GM matchup? I play War God, and I'm unsure exactly how to deal with a SubZero who sits behind an ice clone all day.
Click to expand...
Assuming he's right behind the clone:

df2 and db2 are useful because if he blocks them or gets hit the clone disappears. They're not very fast so you might get hit by a slide or a random ice ball but that's life sometimes in that MU. d4 works sometimes at a very specific range when he's pretty much in the clone. j1 is really good at certain ranges because if it even is blocked the clone disappears but it's difficult to judge the correct distance, Sub can also backdash and just laugh as you get frozen.

Assuming he's way behind the clone:

Hold dat or trying to run up and block the clone.

If he's block stringing into clone:

If it's not f4 into ice clone you can EX db1 to put some lumps on him. He can bait this though with EX clone or just not doing clone at all.

It's not a good matchup at the end of the day but it's not unwinnable.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
mkl said:
Assuming he's right behind the clone:

df2 and db2 are useful because if he blocks them or gets hit the clone disappears. They're not very fast so you might get hit by a slide or a random ice ball but that's life sometimes in that MU. d4 works sometimes at a very specific range when he's pretty much in the clone. j1 is really good at certain ranges because if it even is blocked the clone disappears but it's difficult to judge the correct distance, Sub can also backdash and just laugh as you get frozen.

Assuming he's way behind the clone:

Hold dat or trying to run up and block the clone.

If he's block stringing into clone:

If it's not f4 into ice clone you can EX db1 to put some lumps on him. He can bait this though with EX clone or just not doing clone at all.

It's not a good matchup at the end of the day but it's not unwinnable.
Click to expand...
I don't think this is a bad matchup.

Both sides need the lifelead. Sub cannot safely chip unless you're cornered, Kotal can easily chip via blockstrings.

Sub does meh damage and corner carries, Kotal does chunks of damage and side switches with air throw.
 
M

Mr $tealYoGirl

Noob
potatobrain said:
Yo! Anyone have info on the SubZero GM matchup? I play War God, and I'm unsure exactly how to deal with a SubZero who sits behind an ice clone all day.
Click to expand...
mkl said:
Assuming he's right behind the clone:

df2 and db2 are useful because if he blocks them or gets hit the clone disappears. They're not very fast so you might get hit by a slide or a random ice ball but that's life sometimes in that MU. d4 works sometimes at a very specific range when he's pretty much in the clone. j1 is really good at certain ranges because if it even is blocked the clone disappears but it's difficult to judge the correct distance, Sub can also backdash and just laugh as you get frozen.

Assuming he's way behind the clone:

Hold dat or trying to run up and block the clone.

If he's block stringing into clone:

If it's not f4 into ice clone you can EX db1 to put some lumps on him. He can bait this though with EX clone or just not doing clone at all.

It's not a good matchup at the end of the day but it's not unwinnable.
Click to expand...
Kotal Kahn [WG] vs Sub Zero [GM]

After some testing here is what I have found to stuff Sub's wake up options.

I didn't include Sub's Ex Ice Ball since I don't think most good Subs will wake up with that.
I also suggest using a kombo that ends in DF2 for Kotal because it forces a hard knockdown and puts u in a favorable position where Sub must use an Ex special move to escape pressure.

Here are what I think Kotals most optimized stuff options will be.

DF2 APPLICATIONS.
Stuffs Ice Statue.
Stuffs Frost Bomb.
DB1 APPLICATIONS (Ex version).
Stuffs Ice Statue.
Stuffs Frost Bomb.
Stuffs Icy Slide.

Kotal Kahn Kombos that end in DF2 without meter.
F1B2 F2 F2 F1B2 DF2 (30%) with JIP1 its (32%)
F2 F2 F2 F1B2 DF2 (34%) with JIP1 its (35%)

***Post Knockdown* **
[Sub Wakes up with Ice Statue]

After knockdown dash forward once (don't run) and imput DF2 to catch him as he is recovering from Clone.
This uses no bar from ur end, does not step forward as much as DB1 which would make you touch the Clone and puts you right back into another wake up game.
If you choose to use DB1 after dashing forward spend the bar for Ex which will absorb the clone and hit Sub Zero while he is recovering from the Clone. Do what ever combo you like after.

[Sub wakes up with Icy Slide]

Dash forward after knocking Sub down like before however there is a slight delay to time the DB1 to absorb the first hit of the Slide. With practice you can get the timing down perfect.
Go into whatever kombo you like after wards.

[Sub wakes up with Frost Bomb]

Step forward one step and then DF2 .
Moving forward one step will put you in range to punish the Frost Bomb but still out of range to not be hit by it.
Dash forward once after knocking Sub down and time the ExDB1 to absorb the hit of the Frost Bomb and then do whatever kombo you like after wards.

Hope this helps out.
Let me know your thoughts on this.
I will put up example videos later.
 
Klesk_1

Klesk_1

RIP Grundy
~I only play sun god. Worst MU for me is sub zero grandmaster - ice clone. Renders your advances null. Destroys your corner attempt game. The only thing which is good is punishing his slides but thats not variation specfic.

Ref Goro, i agree with Qwark but i would say that things might be different now with our improved anti air grab... we'll see
 
mattnin

mattnin

Noob
Gotta agree with everyone else that war God is best for GM sub zero. However, blood God seems to be somewhat ok too because he can parry the often used SZ slide wake up or the physical attack that often follows the ice clone at close range
 
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