Jumping BS

[Gaxkang]

MK11 isn't as jump powerful as say Injustice 2. Batman's big gameplan was to just jump a lot heh.

MK11 has got one of the, or perhaps, least useful neutral jumps I've seen. The get hit situations outnumber the useful situations, I feel.

Jumping on wakeup...I get hit whenever I try that.

You cannot jump over projectiles in MK11 without fine, fine finesse. It can feel like jumps have a supernova hurtbox shoot out when you do it. I've done jumps and gotten hit by attacks that looked like lows.

The plusness of jump kicks on block...I dunno, that can feel inconsistent.

As for anti-air's...by instinct you want to use D2...but unless you have a really good one, it will be disappointing. The game wants you to anti-air jab (bleh). If you don't have a good one of those...you get to block I guess.
But various moves can hit someone out of the air...whether the user meant to or not.

People jumping a lot...I dunno, maybe they are envious of neutral skipping moves and are trying to make magic happen.

 

[REO]

I was watching the Celtic Throwdown on Reo's stream and he had an on screen counter for jump ins that went unchecked. The entire top 8 had 166 unchecked jump ins and about 20 successful anti-airs. Grand finals had like 52 unchecked jumps by itself. These are the highest tier of players in an offline environment, and they're getting constantly jumped on. I think it might be worth discussing what could be adjusted to control it aside from telling people to get gud.

It's all documented right here for those curious:

https://testyourmight.com/threads/anti-air-stats-in-mortal-kombat-11.71740/#post-2584105

 

[kcd117]

Jumping is way too strong in this game and leads to way too much reward.

Imo, the jump punches should be made a little bit easier to anti-air and the jump kicks should stay the same but cause a splat knockdown similar to NJKs in MKX instead of launching for full combos.

EVERYONE should have a functional anti ait as well. For fuck's sake, NRS, stop insisting on trying to "balance" characters by not giving them tools to deal with the easiest universal source of pressure. Characters like Kano and Nightwolf are literally unable to anti-air a damn crossup. having to sit still while magic-pixel-the-floor-is-lava-playing Kung Lao jumps and jumps and jumps is not good design.

With that said, the scrubbier version of anti-air jabs in the form of Sonya's D1, Kitana's D3, Frost's D3 and Noob's D4 have to go. As much as I love to shut down jump happy players with Noob, I know that his D4 is not ok. Low profiling fast anti-airs should not exist in any fighting game.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

There are strong JIK's but none of them are invincible.
Its all about AAing them at the right time/speed.

- Use your best AA usually s1 but some characters have better ones like low profiling pokes.

- Flawless Block if you are recovering from something.

- walk back and trip guard them on landing. Footsie is very important in this game. Work on your spacing. You can also stay out of JIK range to limit your opponents ability to jump in without wiffing.

- many characters have great FB's and Specials that can AA like Nightwolf FB.

They are so plus on block because moves are generally slower in this game. I generally don't have a problem with them since I usually AA ones I know I can or walk back on ones I know are hard to AA like Baraka's.

I think they are fine the way they are. Just practice and you should be fine. It helps to run drills each day for reactions, punishers, shimmy, trip guarding.

 

[M.D.]

It feels a shitload like Street Fighter jumpins, that are different for each character and matchup so you have to learn with what to anti air against what.

Mk9 had it easier, standing 1 > all

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

It feels a shitload like Street Fighter jumpins, that are different for each character and matchup so you have to learn with what to anti air against what.

Mk9 had it easier, standing 1 > all

Yeah the corner carry I remember those days

 

[Juggs]

I really don’t understand how you can even argue that jumps/jump in attacks aren’t very powerful in MK11.

-Most characters can’t consistently anti air them
-A lot of them have very good hitboxes
-A lot of them have a lot of range
-They are insanely plus on block
-Some characters can change their jump arc/timing (ie jump teleport, jump fireball, etc)
-They can lead to great damage on hit

The best strategy is trip guard. The flawless block angle is even riskier than just trying to anti air. Yeah trip guarding works but you can’t always trip guard jump ins. You can only do that on badly spaced and just bad jump in attempts.

I’m not really saying anything should change. But we gotta be honest about the situation here.

 

[Gaxkang]

I really don’t understand how you can even argue that jumps/jump in attacks aren’t very powerful in MK11.

-Most characters can’t consistently anti air them
-A lot of them have very good hitboxes
-A lot of them have a lot of range
-They are insanely plus on block
-Some characters can change their jump arc/timing (ie jump teleport, jump fireball, etc)
-They can lead to great damage on hit

The best strategy is trip guard. The flawless block angle is even riskier than just trying to anti air. Yeah trip guarding works but you can’t always trip guard jump ins. You can only do that on badly spaced and just bad jump in attempts.

I’m not really saying anything should change. But we gotta be honest about the situation here.

Easier anti-airing would change stuff for sure.

In SFV people can be jump happy...but in SFV anti-airing feels better than in MK11.

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

Easier anti-airing would change stuff for sure.

In SFV people can be jump happy...but in SFV anti-airing feels better than in MK11.

Imagine dragon punch getting stuffed 7 out of 10 times by jump ins.

 

[Parasurama]

I was watching the Celtic Throwdown on Reo's stream and he had an on screen counter for jump ins that went unchecked. The entire top 8 had 166 unchecked jump ins and about 20 successful anti-airs. Grand finals had like 52 unchecked jumps by itself. These are the highest tier of players in an offline environment, and they're getting constantly jumped on. I think it might be worth discussing what could be adjusted to control it aside from telling people to get gud.

D'vorah jump ins need to go unchecked sometimes.

 

[Parasurama]

Nobody trip guards anymore? Pretty effective for bunny hoppers.

It wont work against empty jumps though. It is what it is now I guess.

 

[ABACABB]

learn to AA lmao

 

[Juggs]

Easier anti-airing would change stuff for sure.

In SFV people can be jump happy...but in SFV anti-airing feels better than in MK11.

Yeah just needs to be consistent.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

Invincibility on d2 would be fine. There’s no reason not to, and considering the number of 2d games with invincible AAs, some of them being universal, its not out of the norm. They could literally go the 2h route from dbfz and give d2s iframes from frame 4-5 or whatever. Also crossups need a fix, there are some angles where crossups are out right unantiairable.

 

[Trini_Bwoi]

Why does Nightwolf's ass have a hitbox!

My main issue is the massive hitboxes these jump kicks have let people jump at you at angles that make them tough to anti-air.

My second issue is (this one might just be me) it feels like characters take too long to turn around when they get cross-up jumped.

 

[M2Dave]

Maybe some upper body invincibility frames on d2.
Thus might also stop you being thrown when you make a read on a throw and d2 but instead get thrown for it. what do you think

Upper body invincibility in a game with a plethora of existing hitbox issues would be a terrible idea in my opinion. I can already imagine the unintended consequences such as uppercuts beating mid-hitting jabs and even certain mid attacks that hit "too high".

The reality is that players of all levels should utilize flawless blocking as an anti air. Besides, having a weak anti air game is sometimes part of a character's gameplay design. There also exists a small minority of players, mostly from a Mortal Kombat 9 background, who believe that a jab should anti air every jump 100% of the time.

 

[S+ Main]

they could make d2 upperbody immune to airborn attacks only

 

[MadPropz101]

Either tripguard them or play a character with good antiairs (for example dvorah df2 is godlike). But yeah deep ji3 is insanely plus, up to +15 on block.

 

[Wigy]

Also I swear with certain JKs and spacing your character just won't turn around in time. You basically have to antiair them before they cross you up. Kabal is bad for it.

 

[o29]

Just curious, does "trip guard" have a different meaning in MK than SF? In SF, isn't trip guard the ability to block low attacks on landing after a jump-in? But in MK, it seems to mean punishing an opponent's whiffed jump-in?

 

[Wigy]

Just curious, does "trip guard" have a different meaning in MK than SF? In SF, isn't trip guard the ability to block low attacks on landing after a jump-in? But in MK, it seems to mean punishing an opponent's whiffed jump-in?

Just means outspacing and whiff punishing jump ins in mk I think.

 

[trufenix]

Go to practice mode and set the dummy, then (AND I CAN'T STRESS THIS ENOUGH) lab your fucking buttons. Tons of characters can AA with s1, d1, d3, etc for huge damage and corner carry. Seriously, watch a tournament. Stop playing online for a minute, and learn how to use your character.

This is by far the least jumpiest MK in history with bigger prices than ever to pay on AA read, and the same players still want a magic always AA button. Yuck.

 

[Wigy]

Go to practice mode and set the dummy, then (AND I CAN'T STRESS THIS ENOUGH) lab your fucking buttons. Tons of characters can AA with s1, d1, d3, etc for huge damage and corner carry. Seriously, watch a tournament. Stop playing online for a minute, and learn how to use your character.

This is by far the least jumpiest MK in history with bigger prices than ever to pay on AA read, and the same players still want a magic always AA button. Yuck.

I mean the stats on the most recent tournament would disagree. There is lots of good AAs but the nature of the pace of the game and some absolutely ludicrous jk's and a few dumb JIPs make doing it all on reaction specific to each of the jump ins and jump speeds very different.

 

[o29]

Just means outspacing and whiff punishing jump ins in mk I think.

Got it -- thank you!

It's confusing because in SF, "trip guard" means you're literally "guarding" against the "trip" by blocking low. Here it just means whiff punish which makes sense but isn't really fitting for the name?

 

[trufenix]

Got it -- thank you!

It's confusing because in SF, "trip guard" means you're literally "guarding" against the "trip" by blocking low. Here it just means whiff punish which makes sense but isn't really fitting for the name?

Well Trip Guard is accurate, because its the part of your jump that you can only cancel into blocking, but when you attack late in a jump, recovery eats it and you can really only get nailed. We still call that the "trip guard" phase of the jump.