Joker 1.03 Patch Thoughts (from a actual joker player)

[burzy306]

superman be pressing B while we be doin 1f parries for a quarter the reward <3

 

[Necrophia]

Sorry for being so repetitive about it, but i still think that a longer parry reaction and if possible another tweak in the HAs is the best solution.

Is just that overall we're giving ideas that NRS has to playtest Joker completely for give the OK because the trait changes radically from what they have on mind. All the suggestions so far can change Mr. J to better, but might take a very long while to show up in a patch. Is not a balance we will see once the next DLC comes out in a few weeks or in a hotfix like the Red Hood issue you see.

Most we gave good ideas in this thread, but is not something we will see in a matter of weeks. Now, if they are planning a huge patch that's another story.

 

[AA25Mamba]

Guys, I know I'm new to using Joker consistently, but he does suffer like Bane did. We did make a buff thread and tweeted NRS a few times. Bane got some buffs that made him a much better character. I love the ideas you guys are throwing around. When I play Joker I forget about the trait entirely. He definitely needs some sort of buff to help it out. I really hope they listen.

 

[MetaSkipper]

Well, if we're doing that whole poll thing, then these are my top five, in relative importance, though some are closer than others:

1. Parry leads to stun (with luck, into combo or setup).
2. HA's deplete one are a time, not all at once.
3. One frame startup, longer active frames, shorter recovery, etc.
4. Longer Ha length. (10-15 seconds seems nice)
5. At Level 3, special moves gain properties like armor, stun, etc.

Honorable Mentions:
Some moves, when parried, give 2 or 3 Ha's (Unsure how to determine which ones).
Ha's decrease move startup as well as increase movement speed and jump arc.

 

[laudanum09]

Well, if we're doing that whole poll thing, then these are my top five, in relative importance, though some are closer than others:

1. Parry leads to stun (with luck, into combo or setup).
2. HA's deplete one are a time, not all at once.
3. One frame startup, longer active frames, shorter recovery, etc.
4. Longer Ha length. (10-15 seconds seems nice)
5. At Level 3, special moves gain properties like armor, stun, etc.

Honorable Mentions:
Some moves, when parried, give 2 or 3 Ha's (Unsure how to determine which ones).
Ha's decrease move startup as well as increase movement speed and jump arc.

I'm all for 2, 3, and 4. I think 1 and 5, while awesome, are less likely to be implemented. 1 and 5 involves making new animations or altering one.

On honorable mentions, I like the idea of Joker leveling up Has like Frank West in UMVC3. The higher the combo counter, the higher the HA gets filled. A combo above 5 hits grants a HA or half a HA or something along those lines.

Some other ideas people are posting are too elaborate and unrealistic. Getting new animations are totally not happening IMO. I could see getting special move properties changing like armor or stun at the MOST. I think realistically we should stick to the idea of making parry the best in the game, easy to use, safe and HAs buffed to be useful, not completely reworked. Stackable, HAs depleting one at a time, etc.


FOR MK9 PLAYERS: What was the most elaborate change they implemented with patches? If I recall, I think it was just adding new strings or combo options, not entirely new animations or total reworks.

 

[shoshinsha]

Ok, here's my idea for REALISTIC trait changes. It is in no way an original idea, just a summation of several other thoughts that have been tossed around. I foresee that if the following changes were all implemented, Joker could be a pretty darn good character without being overpowered.

1. Make the parry 1 frame.
2. Make the parry holdable and dash-cancelable like Aquaman's.
3. Make it parry any attack except unclashables.
4. Make HAs last the whole round.

 

[Dr Jackal]

Hi everyone, here my opinion for the main topic, I will try to be synthetic.

The things which must be fixed on the string are already in the topic, I will not repeat it.

Regarding the trait (main subject because he is useless compare to the others), here my ideas :

HA ! shouldn't be punishable !

1/ This trait needs a true advantage for joker to balance the game : to guarantee the possibility of making a combos after each use, like Kano in MK vs DC. With 3 HA ! Joker can still increase his speed.
No needs to change the move, after the knife and the kick the opponent is in standing (stun for 2 sec) (it’s my favorite idea because in my opinion it’s the best to increase drastically the joker’strait.)

2/ If NRS thinks it will be too much for Joker (sincerely I don’t think it’s too much) :
NRS can set up a different results for each HA !
- First HA ! è Nothing happens (no duration on the HA !)
- Second HA ! è 1 MB gain
- Third HA ! è Guaranted combos

3/ Each parry = 1 additional MB for Joker.

4/ One parry = Joker is armored for a certain duration. (like Jade in MK9)

5/ Each HA ! increase more and more the joker speed, but we have to see the difference !
--

Things that can be nice (not inevitably necessary, but interesting) :
- The Acid flower should be meter burned to give us the opportunity to continue our pressing on block (If MB, the opponent is stun), specially efficient in wall combos.

Well I think that we made the turn.

Cheers, I look forward the topic.

 

[Astrocytic]

*It's really hard to read your post.

*Mainly because you are trying to make points by using asteriks' as bulletpoints when there was no need.

*You were putting pieces of one point in seperate parts.

*So I stopped reading.

*Joker is almost viable, but not really there yet.

wut he sed

 

[Necrophia]

What about able to parry throws? This also includes command grabs like Grundy (Except the 2nd/3rd segment of a chain) or Bane. Obviusly well timed as if you're breaking the throw.

Makes his trait more unique and dangerous instead of just parrying low for avoid throws. If we include the parry against jump ins, Joker's parry becomes the best of the game and for all incoming attacks.

 

[Gilbagz]

I'm all for 2, 3, and 4. I think 1 and 5, while awesome, are less likely to be implemented. 1 and 5 involves making new animations or altering one.

On honorable mentions, I like the idea of Joker leveling up Has like Frank West in UMVC3. The higher the combo counter, the higher the HA gets filled. A combo above 5 hits grants a HA or half a HA or something along those lines.

Some other ideas people are posting are too elaborate and unrealistic. Getting new animations are totally not happening IMO. I could see getting special move properties changing like armor or stun at the MOST. I think realistically we should stick to the idea of making parry the best in the game, easy to use, safe and HAs buffed to be useful, not completely reworked. Stackable, HAs depleting one at a time, etc.


FOR MK9 PLAYERS: What was the most elaborate change they implemented with patches? If I recall, I think it was just adding new strings or combo options, not entirely new animations or total reworks.

I think the biggest change that happened was Baraka getting a completely new d1. Basically they just had the blade come out to extend his d1 range. Didn't help much but all I can think of now.

Levelling up joker sounds cool.
A lot of the ideas people are throwing around are really cool.
Interesting to see what NRS does (if they do anything lol)

 

[Cat]

Tight. Also, LOLing at KH stream's latest. All your homies are soooo salty about Joker lol. "The teeth come out too fast..." "That's just a flowchart" LOL WTF are they talking about?

Lmao tell me about it. The salt was too strong! Even off stream there was some salt.

 

[Cat]

So far I think the more realistic ones are the ones that just involve them adding active frames, recovery, start up, longer HA time. These seem the easier to implement for them IMO.
So things like

1.faster start up and longer active frames for the parry

2. Lil to no recovery on the parry after active frames finish

3. HAs last a round

4. First HA acts like 2nd HA parry

5. HAs can be used when wanted with a press of trait + button.

IMO the most important fix is the parry move itself. It's not reliable and having it connect is way harder than it should be for being his trait. Batmans and KF special move parrys are easier to land.

Also with it being a trait, it shouldn't be so easily punishable on whiff , although it does have to have a small frame of recovery not too much because if you do a standing parry a opponent can easily punish it by doing a low attack and vise versa.

The HA also needs work but its more important to buff the trait so you can even get a HA in the first place

 

[Necrophia]

The 3rd point could be too much in my opinion. If the parry gets buffed for land easier, a single HA Joker might (repeat, MIGHT, so not sure about it) easily outmatch certain characters. And if in the end is added, the speed boost itself might get nerfed for compensate the full round boost.

As i said, the HAs has been rarely tested in real matches for see until what point Joker can overcome the rest of the cast. Giving a full round boost along the parry buff(s) with few to none knowledge about the potential of the HAs is giving Joker something which could become far too much of a buff.

I am not against it. Is just that it might need some other modifications for balance it.

 

[laudanum09]

I don't think there's much to it honestly. His frames don't change, only his walkspeed and jump arc. All it means is that we can jump all over the place and get better ambiguous crossups, NOT new setups because once again, his frames will stay the same. It's just more mobility and free jumping. Not really OP at all IMO. Think about Doomsday, Aquaman, Superman, Batman, Grundy, etc. even Sinestro in comparison to what a speed and jump arc boost does.

 

[insomnia_ftw]

1.faster start up and longer active frames for the parry

2. Lil to no recovery on the parry after active frames finish

3. HAs last a round

If the parry itself becomes much easier to land, why should the HAs last a whole round? Not saying that would be OP or anything, just unnecessary I guess.
Or was that list meant to be individual possible buffs instead of a whole package?

 

[dangerous Dave]

If you want a tournament viable Joker with the least amount of changes you need a teeth buff. He's got many fast hard knockdowns that as of now don't give you much because, although you can hit confirm many of them into teeth and be safe from wake-ups, teeth doesn't need to be respected. It needs a bigger hit box and one that lingers a bit, this will give him a corner push oriented game plan which makes sense because he is sick in the corner. Also crowbar rush should be advantage on hit so you can pull teeth out, right now the risk/reward isn't fair and the overhead canister ( I think it's b2) should be faster, he has a really easy to fuzzy guard 50/50 with a fast low the over heads over 20 frames or telegraphed because they're in strings. Trait sucks, but he has more serious problems, buffing canisters was a good start. Don't be dicks now I'm trying to be helpful.

 

[laudanum09]

If you want a tournament viable Joker with the least amount of changes you need a teeth buff. He's got many fast hard knockdowns that as of now don't give you much because, although you can hit confirm many of them into teeth and be safe from wake-ups, teeth doesn't need to be respected. It needs a bigger hit box and one that lingers a bit, this will give him a corner push oriented game plan which makes sense because he is sick in the corner. Also crowbar rush should be advantage on hit so you can pull teeth out, right now the risk/reward isn't fair and the overhead canister ( I think it's b2) should be faster, he has a really easy to fuzzy guard 50/50 with a fast low the over heads over 20 frames or telegraphed because they're in strings. Trait sucks, but he has more serious problems, buffing canisters was a good start. Don't be dicks now I'm trying to be helpful.

We know, we're just trying to figure out trait buff first and get a consensus and then move onto bigger and better things. It's just that trait is so ass it's hard to figure out what would make it better than obvious stuff like frame buffs on normals and I think we're eventually going to poll the best ideas so NRS at least knows that we know exactly what we want and that it's reasonable.

But to address your point, it's not teeth that's the issue I think, it's the time between teeth and the follow up. Too much time to jump out or backdash. Joker should either recover faster from hard knockdowns that land him closer to the opponent or allow hard knockdown strings to cancel into teeth so we have more time to set something up. In the corner something like 212 into teeth is good because the teeth come out AS they get knocked down. Gives time for jump ins, MB F3 and crowbar. We need something similar for midscreen.

Crowbar special shouldn't be negative on block. Maybe 0 but not plus frames, that's too derpy.

 

[RIF]

I've changed my mind. Joker pretty much sucks. If parry ONLY parred jump-ins, he would move up a tier or two, but right now, he's arguably the worst in the game. The Bane buff made that match-up MUCH harder than it used to be. Good for Bane players, bad for Joker players.

 

[SunLord5]

(go to the youtube page and click show more for links to each characters changes)

 

[GrandTid]

I think the simplest buff nrs can do is make any ha you get the same speed as lvl3. It only lasts for the usual amount of time and at least you will get some use out of a parry. Alternatively I like the idea that it works similar to the flash's trait.

 

[Necrophia]

I've changed my mind. Joker pretty much sucks. If parry ONLY parred jump-ins, he would move up a tier or two, but right now, he's arguably the worst in the game. The Bane buff made that match-up MUCH harder than it used to be. Good for Bane players, bad for Joker players.

That's what we're trying to figure out here. Fix the dang trait because he basically has none. But not sure if we have a deadline before the next big patch or if a poll is being set

 

[CrazySlasher]

Noob question, how much could they actually change the trait through a patch?

 

[MetaSkipper]

We dunno. I think you could keep the animation and still have a stun instead of a hard knockdown, for example, but others don't think so.

 

[laudanum09]

That's what we're trying to figure out here. Fix the dang trait because he basically has none. But not sure if we have a deadline before the next big patch or if a poll is being set

I think the sooner we come to some agreement the better. Lets try and get Cat to get that thread with the poll going by the time UFGT is over.

 

[CrazySlasher]

That's what we're trying to figure out here. Fix the dang trait because he basically has none. But not sure if we have a deadline before the next big patch or if a poll is being set

I dunno man. I have a couple really great Bane players that I play with regularly. The Joker still shuts him down