General/Other - Johnny Cage Johnny Cage General Discussion Thread

[Diamondust]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I get rekt against Takeda, don't know what to do besides read and punish the teleport punch.

 

[Derocus]

Sorry if this has been covered already, guys. But I have a question for you A-Listers.
Do you guys think double run cancels in combos or block strings are worth it? I mean. They're pretty hard to pull off in the first place, 'cause I'm a huge scrub. But the extra 1-2% damage doesn't seem worth the stamina IMO.
Should I be doing double run cancels at all?

 

[IrishMantis]

Sorry if this has been covered already, guys. But I have a question for you A-Listers.
Do you guys think double run cancels in combos or block strings are worth it? I mean. They're pretty hard to pull off in the first place, 'cause I'm a huge scrub. But the extra 1-2% damage doesn't seem worth the stamina IMO.
Should I be doing double run cancels at all?

Depends what is off?

If you do F3 run cancel 12 it's a block string meaning opponents can press a button so your safe of plus depending on what you do, but if you do F3 dash cancel 12 you can be interrupted and punished

 

[Asodimazze]

Sorry if this has been covered already, guys. But I have a question for you A-Listers.
Do you guys think double run cancels in combos or block strings are worth it? I mean. They're pretty hard to pull off in the first place, 'cause I'm a huge scrub. But the extra 1-2% damage doesn't seem worth the stamina IMO.
Should I be doing double run cancels at all?

Double run cancels are especially useful when pressing the opponent, not so much in combos. Pretty hard to pull off but they might give you the victory due to chip damage, try to learn them.

In combos is important to perfect your dash cancels...it can make a big difference considering the damage and the corner carry. Here is an example:

F3skrc, f4, f24, d1, f3xxnut = 26%
F3skrc, b34skdc, f4, f24, d1, f3xxnut = 29% and carries half stage

 

[DrFolmer]

Sorry if this has been covered already, guys. But I have a question for you A-Listers.
Do you guys think double run cancels in combos or block strings are worth it? I mean. They're pretty hard to pull off in the first place, 'cause I'm a huge scrub. But the extra 1-2% damage doesn't seem worth the stamina IMO.
Should I be doing double run cancels at all?

I haven't seen anyone really utilize it. I just think stamina is too valuable so the old "better safe than sorry" is the mentality I guess. I tend to do the Ex nut punch just to get some more damage and corner carry, and honestly I don't know if you have enough stamina to do that if you do double run cancels. I never really thought about double cancels - seems incredibly hard to execute, so maybe the payoff isn't as great compared to how demanding it is. I tend to settle for easier juggles, like the 11, 11, f3xxnutpunch instead of going 12, 12 etc.

It would have use for chip damage as someone else stated but yea

P.S I love your videos <3<3<3

 

[Vintagesoul]

I just realised yesterday that 1f2 / 113 is a much better mix up than 11f2 /113 because the frame count makes 11f2/113 90% fuzziable by anyone who knows the match up. With 1f2 / 113, yes they can react to the second 1 and block low, but its not an easy reaction to make (by my count 20 frames thereabouts), and you can throw off the opponents reaction times further by mixing in 11throw.

Does anyone else so this?

 

[rafaw]

I just realised yesterday that 1f2 / 113 is a much better mix up than 11f2 /113 because the frame count makes 11f2/113 90% fuzziable by anyone who knows the match up. With 1f2 / 113, yes they can react to the second 1 and block low, but its not an easy reaction to make (by my count 20 frames thereabouts), and you can throw off the opponents reaction times further by mixing in 11throw.

Does anyone else so this?

i posted this tip yesterday here or in the matchup discussion
Edit: checked, posted on Match/video Thread

 

[rafaw]

Sorry if this has been covered already, guys. But I have a question for you A-Listers.
Do you guys think double run cancels in combos or block strings are worth it? I mean. They're pretty hard to pull off in the first place, 'cause I'm a huge scrub. But the extra 1-2% damage doesn't seem worth the stamina IMO.
Should I be doing double run cancels at all?

Double run cancels are good on block, on combos dont make any diference! But i just use the F3rcF3rc actually, the other cancels i cant do perfect all the time to do it twice!
Thats something im focusing to do 100% right now after a np, 4skrc/114skrc~114skrc~114exfb

 

[rafaw]

Charged NP gives you double the +frames if i recall correctly. Gotta check on that later because im at work atm.

Tested, its the same, just the damage changes.

 

[kelevra]

Tested, its the same, just the damage changes.

Well than thats on me. Really thought i read something like that in the frame Data.

 

[crosstalk]

I was messing around with j3 on hit run cancelled into f3~nutpunch more, and it's actually not too bad to hit.

The best distance I've seen is the default spacing when a match starts. You might be able to do it on crossover j3s too but I haven't practiced that too much.

Pretty much you want to hit them on top of the head with the j3, input ff+block as soon as it hits, then immediately go into f3~nutpunch. The run cancel should immediately come out once you land. J3 seems to be able to hit them above their head as well. The higher up you hit them, the easier it seems.

I tested it on all hitboxes - normal male, female, and taller male, seems to work for them all. Also works for all variations. It seems trickier to hit it on female hitboxes - I was testing it against Cassie and I was able to do it but it seems to be stricter.

 

[mrKrucifix]

I was messing around with j3 on hit run cancelled into f3~nutpunch more, and it's actually not too bad to hit.

The best distance I've seen is the default spacing when a match starts. You might be able to do it on crossover j3s too but I haven't practiced that too much.

Pretty much you want to hit them on top of the head with the j3, input ff+block as soon as it hits, then immediately go into f3~nutpunch. The run cancel should immediately come out once you land. J3 seems to be able to hit them above their head as well. The higher up you hit them, the easier it seems.

I tested it on all hitboxes - normal male, female, and taller male, seems to work for them all. Also works for all variations. It seems trickier to hit it on female hitboxes - I was testing it against Cassie and I was able to do it but it seems to be stricter.

So, you're basically saying Johnny can consistently convert damage/get guaranteed pressure off of a JI3 (under the right circumstances)?

 

[crosstalk]

So, you're basically saying Johnny can consistently convert damage/get guaranteed pressure off of a JI3 (under the right circumstances)?

It definitely seems possible. If someone were to get really good with it, it would definitely make their air options way better.

 

[rafaw]

It definitely seems possible. If someone were to get really good with it, it would definitely make their air options way better.

I will test that today, if thats reliable this is huge for his air options, if this could be done max ji3 distance

 

[Name v.5.0]

One tip here...He cant end a string with kunai safely from almost any range. You can basically Shadow Kick on reaction and knock his ass down. If you're close enough to him you can armor through the gaps, or back dash for F3 punish. You gotta make him be hesitant to use it.

It's been awhile since I've played the MU, I cant remember if you can Shadow Kick through EX Kunai. Test that.

@DrFolmer so yeah I just played a Takeda and something changed. Back in like month 2, you could just shadow kick thorough the kunai. Now it hits you. Not sure what changed but something did. Just wanted to let you know.

 

[Mikemetroid]

@DrFolmer so yeah I just played a Takeda and something changed. Back in like month 2, you could just shadow kick thorough the kunai. Now it hits you. Not sure what changed but something did. Just wanted to let you know.

It got buffed, no?

 

[DrFolmer]

@DrFolmer so yeah I just played a Takeda and something changed. Back in like month 2, you could just shadow kick thorough the kunai. Now it hits you. Not sure what changed but something did. Just wanted to let you know.

Thanks for keeping me informed mate, Much appreciated

 

[Name v.5.0]

It got buffed, no?

Fuck...I dont know. With all the patching it's hard to keep track of the lesser played characters. It's exhausting trying to keep up.

 

[Scott The Scot]

Sometimes I like to throw out the delayed nutpunch on block to keep my opponent on point but I noticed when playing a Cryo Sub wearing the Kold War skin (incase it's skin specifc) my second hit of nut punch (mb) just completely whiffs. It looks like it should hit him but it goes through him. What gives? Anybody else notice this?

 

[GNG Iniquity]

"YO, NRS! FIX ME! THE FUCK, GUYS?! WHY DO I WHIFF ON SOME CHARACTERS?!" - Johnny Cage

 

[StealthyMuffin]

Who counters Johnny? (no DLC)

 

[rafaw]

Who counters Johnny? (no DLC)

which variation?

 

[Asodimazze]

Who counters Johnny? (no DLC)

Boneshaper, Tanya, Kung Lao, Sub-Zero (but he doesn't counter stunt double), Cassie, Dragon Fire. For someone Hish Qu Ten is a good counter too.
Any character can beat Cage anyway, he doesn't dominate in any matchup.
There is no 7-3 in his favour...you don't really need to counterpick.

 

[StealthyMuffin]

Boneshaper, Tanya, Kung Lao, Sub-Zero (but he doesn't counter stunt double), Cassie. For someone Hish Qu Ten is a good counter too.
Any character can beat Cage anyway, he doesn't dominate in any matchup.
There is no 7-3 in his favour...you don't really need to counterpick.

It's pretty tough with Ronin. At least for me. D4 Low profiles every pressure option. I need to use meter to make a hard read that's punishable. Having the option to get real damage with an armored move would be amazing. Maybe it's time to pick up Lao...

 

[StealthyMuffin]

which variation?

Primarily SD, but my real problem with him isn't variation specific: d4.