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Breakthrough - Tarkatan Is Tweedy better than YOMI and cR (except fox) combined?

Is tweedy daddy?


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God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Backpedaling? What?? Dankster said sonic won with a bottom 10 character which is false. That was the discussion in the first place. No he didn't because gunslinger and to some extent marksman completely make erron a solid mid A+ tier character. The orignial discussion was on gunslinger if you kept reading the conversation.

The conversation was always about the variation used, but if we're talking character now, he's still not bottom 10 because his variations compensate for each other.

Lao, Tanya, Bo, Leatherface, CSZ, Cyrax, Raiden, Goro, Kitana, Kenshi and IMO Jax (up for debate). Here are your ten characters. Of course, added into a lot of other variations not mentioned that Erron is better against. This leaves a lot to debate, because you can't really say someone is bottom 10 based on character because this game doesn't fit that model cleanly. It's all about variation

TL;DR. I never backpedaled, you just misunderstood the conversation.
the character is bottom 10, the variation is not, your comprehension is bottom 0
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
I feel like Erron beats Jax and that's why I mentioned him. Gunslinger beats all variations. Jax has a really tough time getting in, and Jax's weakness is he has to commit or just pressure with highs. Erron can play neutral with 21122. This of course is not counting Jax's pseudo vortex or guessing wrong on a 50 50.

EDIT- Just because Jax can punish Erron's low shots (with meter mind you) doesn't mean Erron loses. Gunslinger doesn't rely on low shots.
Jax has safe armor, incredible reach, and good counter zoning tools. Erron has no mids, poor safety, mediocre pokes. I don't see how EB wins.
 

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
You're talking about a particular mu. Jax Vs Erron. Dankster is talking about overall throughout the game. Jax is not bottom 10 lol
Yeah I know. Jax is nowhere near bottom 10. I was just saying I think Erron might beat Jax in the mu and could be better. I'd like to be proven wrong
 

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
the character is bottom 10, the variation is not, your comprehension is bottom 0
Please read the entire conversation before replying. You just look out of place. It was all about gunslinger. All three variations compensate each other and elevate Erron out of bottom 10 easy.

Plus I listed 10 characters that Erron is better against like you demanded. 0/10 argument, 0/10 reading and understanding smh

and you just put jax below erron black just after memeing people for outlandish tier opinions

i dont usually post these, but just for you

If it came off that I said Jax is bottom 10 then my bad. Jax is not bottom 10, I just said I think Erron beats him. Meme invalidated. You still haven't invalidated mine with actual evidence. Poor arguments man ;)
 
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hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
Jax has safe armor, incredible reach, and good counter zoning tools. Erron has no mids, poor safety, mediocre pokes. I don't see how EB wins.
Safe armor that doesn't reach or lead to anything. Plus gunslinger breaks all of jaxs armor. The only time gunslinger is unsafe is when he does low shot on block or armor. You can play the match with no gaps.

Erron can easily win the zoning war because his shots knock down and he has low sand, his advancing mid can be easily punished by EB with 21122. Plus Erron has a seven frame d1 that's plus 14 and a plus 22 great d4.

I don't see how Erron loses either.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Safe armor that doesn't reach or lead to anything. Plus gunslinger breaks all of jaxs armor. The only time gunslinger is unsafe is when he does low shot on block or armor. You can play the match with no gaps.

Erron can easily win the zoning war because his shots knock down and he has low sand, his advancing mid can be easily punished by EB with 21122. Plus Erron has a seven frame d1 that's plus 14 and a plus 22 great d4.

I don't see how Erron loses either.
He probably doesn't lose, it's probably even. But Jax's armor does advance. He touches him once, sick ass corner carry, ggs. Kind of like the Sub-Zero syndrome. Any awkwardness midscreen you may encounter is remedied in the corner.
 

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
He probably doesn't lose, it's probably even. But Jax's armor does advance. He touches him once, sick ass corner carry, ggs. Kind of like the Sub-Zero syndrome. Any awkwardness midscreen you may encounter is remedied in the corner.
Yeah that's what I said don't take guessing wrong in the corner into consideration. If you guess wrong each time in the corner ggs. But that's not the true matchup, like tarkatan basically.

Even in the corner though. Jax has to commit or just keep doing highs and errons poke is good enough to gurantee him 21122.

His advancing safe armor can be broken by errons stand off 4 and since he moves back the dash punch has a hard time landing. Plus even if it hits Erron just has to tech roll wakeup and keep zoning.

I guess I can live with 5-5. Jax doesn't seem like he wins it to me after playing it.
 

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
I feel like Erron beats Jax and that's why I mentioned him. Gunslinger beats all variations. Jax has a really tough time getting in, and Jax's weakness is he has to commit or just pressure with highs. Erron can play neutral with 21122. This of course is not counting Jax's pseudo vortex or guessing wrong on a 50 50.

EDIT- Just because Jax can punish Erron's low shots (with meter mind you) doesn't mean Erron loses. Gunslinger doesn't rely on low shots.
Erron Doesn't beat jax. Pls stop
 

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
Lol alright I'll hold that on the Jax part. Good job you've proven me wrong on the meaningless part of the argument. I did list the 10 that were worse. Just keep reading the 5% of my posts so you have something to keep trying to win this argument :D
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Yeah that's what I said don't take guessing wrong in the corner into consideration. If you guess wrong each time in the corner ggs. But that's not the true matchup, like tarkatan basically.

Even in the corner though. Jax has to commit or just keep doing highs and errons poke is good enough to gurantee him 21122.

His advancing safe armor can be broken by errons stand off 4 and since he moves back the dash punch has a hard time landing. Plus even if it hits Erron just has to tech roll wakeup and keep zoning.

I guess I can live with 5-5. Jax doesn't seem like he wins it to me after playing it.
Yeah I agree, he doesn't win.
This doesn't really have much to do with Erron being/not being bottom ten. Balanced Kenshi is considered a losing matchup for Grandmaster Sub, despite being not anywhere near as good of a variation.
 

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
Great contribution to the discussion -_-
Jax can play careful and patient and get in on Erron's gun shots. Once jax gets in erron has a lot of trouble getting him off. From Jax's better buttons, Bettter armor and better range erron has a lot of trouble dealing with that. Jax can break all of erron's armor. It used to be worse before he got the command grab buff but now its somewhat better but not by much. Erron can never tick throw jax cause his Bf4 move is airborn on the first frame and Erron black only has 1 frame to punish it with a d1. My pokes are also plus on hit but idk how that is important to the argument TBH. At some distances jax can punish gunshots for no bar with dash punch. Erron black also doesn't really have any mids to deal with some of jax's pokes and other dumb shit. I can keep going if you want?
 

SneakyTortoise

Official Master of Salt
@SneakyTortoise you can't put a funny option to vote for then blow up people who selected it. That was a trap.
I was going to do a funny option for the other answer, but I couldn't make it family friendly and I was going for that front page life. Didn't matter anyway as it got closed lol.

But don't pretend for a second you were ever team Tweedy, I was in that stream chat ;)
 

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
Jax can play careful and patient and get in on Erron's gun shots. Once jax gets in erron has a lot of trouble getting him off. From Jax's better buttons, Bettter armor and better range erron has a lot of trouble dealing with that. Jax can break all of erron's armor. It used to be worse before he got the command grab buff but now its somewhat better but not by much. Erron can never tick throw jax cause his Bf4 move is airborn on the first frame and Erron black only has 1 frame to punish it with a d1. My pokes are also plus on hit but idk how that is important to the argument TBH. At some distances jax can punish gunshots for no bar with dash punch. Erron black also doesn't really have any mids to deal with some of jax's pokes and other dumb shit. I can keep going if you want?
Erron can also break jaxs armor, his pokes are plus on hit enough for 21122, and errons s2 comfortably punishes jaxs f2 string on whiff. Erron can play gapless and frustrate Jax in the neutral by corner switching him. Jax's pressure is based on highs so it's a mindgame between the pokes.

Oh and the dash punch punishing errons SOS4? Well if you did it that close to Jax you deserve to get punished IMO. It's basically like in his face when I tried it. Any range farther Jax can't do shit, and it's not like Erron has a bad up close game. Erron controls the neutral very well and if he doesn't guess wrong all the time in the corner, he beats him.

The tick throw thing I didn't know. That does help the mu significantly. But then again if you're not always 100% OS'ing, it's still a guess. Plus it's a meterless reversal, so it's harder to OS since you're holding block. It will make you spend the meter, you might as well OH dash punch
 

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
Erron can also break jaxs armor, his pokes are plus on hit enough for 21122, and errons s2 comfortably punishes jaxs f2 string on whiff. Erron can play gapless and frustrate Jax in the neutral by corner switching him. Jax's pressure is based on highs so it's a mindgame between the pokes.

Oh and the dash punch punishing errons SOS4? Well if you did it that close to Jax you deserve to get punished IMO. It's basically like in his face when I tried it. Any range farther Jax can't do shit, and it's not like Erron has a bad up close game. Erron controls the neutral very well and if he doesn't guess wrong all the time in the corner, he beats him.

The tick throw thing I didn't know. That does help the mu significantly. But then again if you're not always 100% OS'ing, it's still a guess.
Erron can break most armor with the multi guns. Just block it back dash or armor and punish.
Again the poke being plus enough on ht is not a big deal cause thats a lot of pokes in this game. Being plus enough on hit to continue pressure. Corner Switching with Grabs? Jax's pressure is not just based on highs. He gets pressure from his F3 and f3 and b1 and b3, etc.I mean if you are about to do the gun shots and i run up close enough and block. Its something that rarely happens though. OSing is easy just mash it out. Its really not hard at all. Jax also doesn't have to do f2 like an idiot. And if i knock you down its more scary then if you knock me down. I have a lot of MU exp in this MU and TBH when jax gets in which he does he kills erron with pressure. Still better than it was pre patch

ALSO. One of your big arguments seems to be my highs. All Erron has is Highs. I could realistically do they same thing to you and Nuetral duck the highs and punish since you don't really have a mid to regulate it. Or i can be a fuck and mash d2
 
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hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
Yeah we completely derailed the thread. At most the mu is 5-5 lets leave it at that. I never really had a problem with Jax as Erron. Idk. We'll see.
 

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
Yeah we completely derailed the thread. At most the mu is 5-5 lets leave it at that. I never really had a problem with Jax as Erron. Idk. We'll see.
Maybe for HW and PU. Wrestler i say wins it. And i never had problems with Erron as Jax. We seem to be at a stand still.