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Question Is Sub-Zero a newb friendly fighter? is there depth to him?

SRKPooch

Noob
Hey guys

I'm new to MK, and I've still not decided on a fighter I want as a main, however I've taken a liking to Sub-Zero. I've watched a few of the videos posted here, and he looks pretty straight forward. Can new players be successful with him offline and online? Or does he take loads of practice/experience to become pretty good with?

Also, it looks to me that he can get pretty boring/simple as it seems that it just comes down to attacking with the 2,2 string, then going either into a combo from there, or backing off with ice clone in case it's blocked. Is this pretty much what Sub-Zero comes down to?

I'm very new to MK, so if this is completely wrong I apologize for the ignorance. Any advice is much appreciated, thanks!
 

Dark_Rob

Noob
Hey guys

I'm new to MK, and I've still not decided on a fighter I want as a main, however I've taken a liking to Sub-Zero. I've watched a few of the videos posted here, and he looks pretty straight forward. Can new players be successful with him offline and online? Or does he take loads of practice/experience to become pretty good with?

Also, it looks to me that he can get pretty boring/simple as it seems that it just comes down to attacking with the 2,2 string, then going either into a combo from there, or backing off with ice clone in case it's blocked. Is this pretty much what Sub-Zero comes down to?

I'm very new to MK, so if this is completely wrong I apologize for the ignorance. Any advice is much appreciated, thanks!
Definitely not a newb friendly character. Sub may look straight foward to you, but hes anything but straight foward. In fact Id say hes one of the harder characters in the game to play well as. Sub is what I like to call a defensive rushdown character. In other words, you want to get at them to make them come at you. To play Sub effectively you must be able to make reads on your opponent. Much of his offensive/defensive strategy comes from his ice clone setups and baits. No one bait will work everytime, you must have many and be ready to use them as the situation calls for.
You MUST be able to hit confirm 2,2 into ice ball. I dont care how many other people say you can use this string or that string. 2,2 is the best and gives you the most options either on hit or block.
There are also many characters that Sub just has to gut it out and play as a straight rushdown character(like Ermac or Noob for instance) Sub is particularly strong in the corner because he can lock opponents in with ice clone. In fact your entire purpose when approaching many matchups should be to cut down the size of the screen and lock them in the corner.
By contrast Sub is not exactly god tier from range. At anywhere past half screen distance Sub should be focusing on closing the distance. And you almost never want to be at full screen as Sub is mostly useless from there except for the occasional EX iceball trade.(Although if you get a big life lead Sub can be one of the best lamers in the game by using the ice clone to keep a barrier between you and your opponent.)

Sub is definitely top tier and one of the best characters in the game...............when used well. When used badly you will get yourself killed quickly.
 

SRKPooch

Noob
Very helpful! Thanks so much Dark_Rob.

Only thing that makes me hesitant to play Sub-Zero is that fact that a LOT of people play him, and I hate mirror matches with a passion, but I guess I'll just have to get used to them. Thanks again!
 

Smarrgasm

What's a Smarrgasm?
SUb is a great mind game character but many people misuse him by only hiding behind clones (i did it as well when i first started). I personally like the mirror match with sub because its all about reading the others clones and ice balls and the properly using your meter for the ice ball trades. Plus i seem to be able to read a sub player much better just from using my own mindset with him.
 

Dark_Rob

Noob
Very helpful! Thanks so much Dark_Rob.

Only thing that makes me hesitant to play Sub-Zero is that fact that a LOT of people play him, and I hate mirror matches with a passion, but I guess I'll just have to get used to them. Thanks again!
Subzero mirrors are hysterical. The best is when you both EX ice beam each other at the same time. You have enough time to go out for dinner and a movie and when you get back they will just be unfreezing. lol
 

Lord Beef

Death Metal and Trance
+1 on what rob said. I main sub and its been a rough ride trying to keep myself from going on auto pilot and spamming clones. If you really want to main sub, its
gonna take some work, but you will wreck shop.

-b_s- :headbang:
 

Smarrgasm

What's a Smarrgasm?
Yea mirror matches are pretty funny cause there are just points in the match where you will both be frozen for seconds at a time. If you ever find yourself in a mirror match one thing i find to work pretty well is that when you are expecting them to clone with sub which usually it ends up both of you being behind a clone. YOu can ice ball as they clone instead and they will freeze the only problem is getting around their clone after. You can either try to wait for it to go and possibly get in a slide or just ice ball again for 5% chip on double freeze.
 

Subby

Frost Warrior
You should get a little seasoned with him before you go online. Run Arcade a few times, practice ALOT, and learn his bnb combos. He's great, but you need to know what your doing to get a good amount of wins from him.
 

Dark_Rob

Noob
Yea mirror matches are pretty funny cause there are just points in the match where you will both be frozen for seconds at a time. If you ever find yourself in a mirror match one thing i find to work pretty well is that when you are expecting them to clone with sub which usually it ends up both of you being behind a clone. YOu can ice ball as they clone instead and they will freeze the only problem is getting around their clone after. You can either try to wait for it to go and possibly get in a slide or just ice ball again for 5% chip on double freeze.
EH Ice beam becomes the most important tool in the Sub mirror match. If they clone and you hit them with it, you can just wait out the clone and still get full combo. If you trade with a normal ice ball after you unfreeze you get full combo. If you both trade EH ice beam, you send out for pizza.
 

Subby

Frost Warrior
EH Ice beam becomes the most important tool in the Sub mirror match. If they clone and you hit them with it, you can just wait out the clone and still get full combo. If you trade with a normal ice ball after you unfreeze you get full combo. If you both trade EH ice beam, you send out for pizza.
Still, sometimes when I do mirror match, the timer will always run its course. Usually its:
1. Set up ice clone
2. Throw ice balls
3.When Ice clone runs out, try to move closer while crouch blocking.
4. Use ice clone in an attempt to make Opponent Subby make a move. If failed, repeat steps 1-4.
5. When frozen opponent is frozen, punish then......RUN!!!!! RUN like a Arse until timer runs out!
6. Quickly set up ice clones and continuous ice balls for maximum trolling.
7.Proceed to damage some more till timer is out, or you've defeated opponent.
8.Repeat steps 1-7 for round two.
9.???
10.Profit

I win most Sub matches this way if they don't come to me. I also get alot of Rage quits.
 

Lyuben

Sinestro's might!
Sub Zero is about mind games. Its about constantly attacking your opponent with safe strings and going again and again.

My most common attack and stategy is to to jump ins with jump2,2,1,4 and then either ice clone if blocked or ice slide if not. Does great chip damage and can be safe with ice clone. This is really fun against reptile if they insinctively do elbow dash.

If you play against a zoner. Forget ice clone. I does not exist. Just rush down. If they are on the floor start doing 224 and it usually catches them. Also remember that back 1,2,1 is very powerful. Not just because of the 20% damage but also because of the stagger. Their only option is to either eat your combo or a hefty chip damage followed by a safe ice clone.

Also as scary as Noob is and Kitana is with their fans. Remember that you can trade projectiles with them and maybe you will eat 8% but they will eat 20%+
 
Sub Zero is about mind games. Its about constantly attacking your opponent with safe strings and going again and again.

My most common attack and stategy is to to jump ins with jump2,2,1,4 and then either ice clone if blocked or ice slide if not. Does great chip damage and can be safe with ice clone. This is really fun against reptile if they insinctively do elbow dash.

If you play against a zoner. Forget ice clone. I does not exist. Just rush down. If they are on the floor start doing 224 and it usually catches them. Also remember that back 1,2,1 is very powerful. Not just because of the 20% damage but also because of the stagger. Their only option is to either eat your combo or a hefty chip damage followed by a safe ice clone.

Also as scary as Noob is and Kitana is with their fans. Remember that you can trade projectiles with them and maybe you will eat 8% but they will eat 20%+
This but, but know when to hold back at times and a few adjustments as have been discussed plenty here:

- most common strategy is to jump 2 2 1 4......jumping to much is not great, 2 2 4 is also better than 2 1 4 because you can hit confirm the 2 2 to ice ball if it lands and still do clone/slide cancels.

- just rushdown.....need to do this in a controlled manner. 2 2 4 while your opponent is on the ground - depends on the opponent and their wake up options. For example Noob would light you up with up kick and Sindel would eat you for breakfast for trying that all day.

- only B+1 2 1 from ground freeze combos......in open play it's punishable on block by full combo.

- Noob and kitana....know WHEN to shoot - you cannot just throw projectiles with abandon. Wait for pauses in their spam, get off first, block and then shoot....etc. Spamming yourself and you will tend to loose vs those 2.

As for topic, I was discussing this with a friend last night actually and we both agree that Sub seems simple on first impressions and you watch Tom Brady use him and it all looks so straight forward, but as a character, he is high entry level in this game for sure. Spacing is massive to do well, screen control too. knowing your oponents options and your best punishes are also huge. Good defence and rushdown are vital and the ability to condition and execute a game plan are a must.....you basically cannot afford flaws in your game when using him or you will get exploited.

I'm getting to a stage now where I can see why Tom Brady has been saying he can live with any character in the game, but that's after 2 months solid play and there are still new things I am learning about matches i found hard, but are now becoming manageable......or even in my advantage! If you want entry level as easy, Ermac or Lui Kang are better places to start imo. You want good tools, but long term work, Sub and Scorpion are where to look.....notice these 2 have had no changes bar a small damage change - they are arguably the most balanced characters from day 1, good tools, but also have manageable weaknesses.
 
MK 9 was my first fighting game too. It took like 500 games for me to get use to play solid with SUB... so yeah, I think its not that mutch noob friendly char
 

Lord Beef

Death Metal and Trance
MK 9 was my first fighting game too. It took like 500 games for me to get use to play solid with SUB... so yeah, I think its not that mutch noob friendly char
My first as a grown person too LOL. I played MK mk2 n umk3, but I was just kid. Now that I can understand the mechanics of the game, its been a blast. But reaaaallllly rough nonetheless. I main sub n scorpion. It's been a tough uphill battle, but I'm getting there....sorta lol. Finally gonna get to some offlines this weekend...prolly gonna die



-b_s- :headbang:
 
I'm a newbie to the idea of wanting to get better at a fighting game, only played mks and tekkens as a kid.. but I don't know I certainly dont disagree with the notion that improving as subzero requires serious skill and a depth of play that is beyond the initial face value of his rather basic looking string style.

I'm not the greatest player and im a newbie as far as years invested in fighting games like others, but I seriously and honestly have a way easier time implementing sub zero's metagame and winning more consistently then.. my secondary ermac (who is largely considered a noob friendly fighter). I'm not claiming I'm an expert, however I legitimately find Ermac harder to use. Maybe this a strong sign that I have a proclivity towards sub zero and should stick with him in looking to improve but I felt like that was some of what the OP was trying to get at?
 
sub looks like a very easy character to play from execution point of view. his combo are almost imposible to drop, and after a bit of practive hit confirming 2,2 becomes quite automatic. and thats pretty much it.
 

Lord Beef

Death Metal and Trance
sub looks like a very easy character to play from execution point of view. his combo are almost imposible to drop, and after a bit of practive hit confirming 2,2 becomes quite automatic. and thats pretty much it.
Hmmmm...
 

zee

Icy
I know right? :D

The air freeze juggle combos aren't exactly meant to be done with your eyes closed. Trying to 214 Slide all day isn't always the best option either. In-fact the most damaging ground freeze combo (excluding resets) is njp dash 1 dash b1 2 (wait for them to bounce) 212 slide.

so... lol
 

Lord Beef

Death Metal and Trance
I know right? :D

The air freeze juggle combos aren't exactly meant to be done with your eyes closed. Trying to 214 Slide all day isn't always the best option either. In-fact the most damaging ground freeze combo (excluding resets) is njp dash 1 dash b1 2 (wait for them to bounce) 212 slide.

so... lol
I got nothin. :D

-b_s- :headbang:
 
Sub's combos are easy, his HCs aren't too difficult to learn, and the timing on the b+2 reset isn't that difficult (and even if you mess up the timing now and then, it kinda becomes another mixup, I guess). The difficulty in playing Sub comes from using his tools at the right times, and knowing how to use his mind-games. He has a harder time against zoners, and it takes a while to learn how to play against them, because you have to change your approach completely, but I don't think many of the zoners are actually bad match-ups.

But yeah, execution = easy.
Knowing how to put that execution to use = not so easy.
 

Kombo

Noob
Sub Zero is definitely not noob friendly. Anybody that says or thinks that clearly doesn't know what they're talking about.