Question - Ermac IF you could Redesign Ermac´s Variations?

[14K]

Sup Guys, I want to try to bring you a cool topic to talk and chill while discussing ermac.

So what do i mean by Redesigning Ermacs Variations. I Dont want you guys to discuss what you would do to this or that existing variation, theres already a topic for that, what im looking for with this thread is for everyone that loves ermac, and has been an ermac fan or not to share what their vision for ermac would be if it was in your hands ( use the existing ermac as basis, so its core fighting style would remain, strings etc... ) Change Specials/Variation specific stuff/ even visual diferences. For me it would be the following:

Variation 1: Master of souls, i would keep everything mostly as is because i think its a cool variation. But i would change the theory that Ermac uses Kinetic attacks. For me it makes no sense for Ermac a being made of souls to remain A Kinetic power user, it makes more sence for him to be a Soul user: By this i mean his Force Ball would be changed visually, instead of a green flying projectile i would love it to be something with "ghost Skulls" if that makes any sense?! Also his Souls flying around him need to be more skully, as in tortured souls, not whisp like balls flying around him...

Variation 2: Soul Manipulation, For this i would make it a complitly Zooning Ermac. Taking the previous change to the thematic Visuals, i would love for Ermac to have A tortured Soul Hanging Behind his Shoulder. Since the Force ball would be a Master of Souls specific attack, what i would do with this Zooning Ermac would be this: His force Lift would be the tortured soul behind him that would grab the opponent and keep him in the air, and the EX version would be similar but instead the soul would pick him by the face and slam him on the ground... He would have a faster non binding projectile with a similar but smaller visual than the previously mentioned Force Ball (Ghost like flying Skull). Lastly i would like to keep something similar to Force push but more in the lines of what kenshi has.. but instead of a charge, the Soul would pick the opponent by the neck Choking him and then tossing him half a screen Ex Version would have him Choke with Both hands and it would toss the opponent further for more space... (this Variation would not have a teleport )

Variation 3: Soul Consumer: Some characters can Enhance their power like Liu Kang and i would love to have something similar on Ermac but a little more Ominous. This Variation would be resource Based. What i would do is get a visual effect surrounding him like as in Souls (Skull Shaped whisps) constantly coming out of his body and dissapearing in and upward motion (dunno if i can explain it any better XD) and i would add 2 new Specials outside his Core ones.
1: Soul Consume: Ermac Cosumes his Resource Souls ( Can do this twice Before having to use Special nr.2 )to increase his normals Dmg % by a bit. Ex Version would heal him slightly something similar to Mileena´s bites.
2: Soul Absortion: can be comboed into "comand Grab" that consumes surrounding Souls to replenish the resource While Reducing the dmg % of the opponent slightly ( Nothing OP ofc ) EX Version would leave a DOT on the opponent for a short time, Erron Black like...

Overall Visual Changes or modifications on the character: I would Remove Vanish but keep Levitate (not flying). His ground Stomp would not be him slaming into the ground but a conjure of souls he launches into the ground...
Force blast would remain visually and technically the same as it looks like he is exploding Souls infront of him, i like that...

Hope you guys like my ideas for him and looking forward to knowing what everyone thinks Ermac Should be. Discuss.

 

[Farpafraf]

Those are actually pretty cool.

 

[14K]

Those are actually pretty cool.

Thanks man i appreciate it

 

[Afumba]

I would keep the Kinetic Stuff cuz its what made me like Ermac as much as Sub/Scorp as a character. But this might be a fanboy talking... i mean i would buy a game just with those 3... i wouldnt buy it if they were missing... so. Also for me the character appearance plays a big part in if a play the character. For example i never touched Liu Kang in the past games cuz the noises he makes annoyed me. I would also never play Goro or Ferra/Torr cuz i simply dont like playing big guys. So simply put... Ermac without Telekinetic powers is not Ermac for me.

Anyways... beside that. Honestly i dont know how to give 3 Variation without stating whats already in the other thread you mentioned. Mystic and MoS are great Ermac Designs with the one or other little flaw that needs to be ironed out. So sorry for repeating stuff for those 2


1. Master of Souls
I would keep stuff as is beside of Vanish. I would remove it from this variation or i would make the ex version have 2 reappear spots.
Reason for removing it would be that it doesnt fit the "Masters of Souls" theme.

2. Mystic
I would keep the name & this variation as well. Its aweomse. With safer tkp (and in a too perfect world a projectile MK9 style) & i dont need any other Ermac ever. They could keep this type of Ermac for every game & i would play it everytime. Its the perfect Ermac for me.

3. SoulVessel
I would make a Variation that is based around his Souls enhancing/altering his specials. Giving him a move that improves his damage on Telekinetic abilities & hits (green hits) for a few seconds. Also another special that alters hover & burst & teleport. Making Burst a projectile and giving Hover the ability to move around but replacing teleport with a charge (straight grounded & diagonal in the air). Ex charge will give you a bounce. All charge moves hit mid. Altering is permanent unless you switch back. Further teleport and lift would have an additional meter burn option after the move. Meterburning teleport would make you blink forwards/backwards & meterburning lift would give you a non launching overhead grab which can be blocked.

Now to your Variations... they sound nice concepts. For another character i would like to see them... for Ermac though tehre is not enough Telekinese for my taste

 

[GAV]

Mystic is the noob variation. Just leave that one alone.

Master of Souls is the default. Leave that one alone too.

No one plays the other variation, so change that one.

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

make mystic playable

 

[14K]

@Afumba Cool stuff man. Its complitly ok, if the current Ermac is something you like but would you would make changes feel free to use it as ref. This topic is just for some chill conversations about how Ermac should be or feel and what if personally anyone would like to see anything diferent or new, all ideas are welcome.

I see your just like me, I cannot play a character if i dont like it, regardless of power lvl or how good they are. for me to play a character i must enjoy how they look/play/feel. Unfortunally for me that such character was Noob Saibot LOL. i complitly agree with you tho, i play MK cause i love Ninjas and robots and i said this countless times here in TYM, Ninjas Cyborgs Female Ninjas are the reason i always loved MK.

Yeah i can understand you enjoy the kinetic aspect of Ermac. My reasoning was based on the direction they are taking him to... on the older games he was a Ninja with kinetic powers, in this game he is more of a Sorc Mummy with souls and kinetic powers. thus my going more into the Soul aspect of him. But you do bring about a interesting idea, How cool would it be for a new Ninja to appear with the powers i mentioned ??
Now that would be cool LOL

 

[MKF30]

MOS I wouldn't touch much, overall it's his best variation. Though there is one move I'd probably replace, the air soul burst/vicinity blast is essentially useless. Here and there it'll hit the hitbox on it sucks so I'd replace it with an actual diagonal Akuma fireball....would help his zoning tremendously. They bring back the same move but smaller hitbox, why IDK...outside of the ex instant air version that juggles for some extra combo damage it serves little to no point.

The ground one it decent, but air one leaves something to be desired.

I would also have given him a fireball in EVERY variation, seriously WTF they give Kunt Lao his teleport, hat throws and dive kick in every damn variation but limited Ermac's fireball to one and Raiden's to one, I found this to be bullshit. Just shows they clearly favor certain characters over others...

I can I guess kind of see why they limited the TK push since so many people cried over Mac's zoning and range with it, so they limit it to one style but seriously they should have given him a universal fireball/soul ball. They could have just made it not stun in the other two variations, how hard is that? Or just change the animation, they could have given his mystic and spectral the original UMK3 fireball. I mean...come on.

Spectral I don't think I have to breakdown much, it sucks flat out, the only good thing going was nerfed so that's that with big meter gain. The air punches, kicks are utterly useless, you're rarely if ever going to get the opponent in the corner to do poke poke poke combos etc this variation they say it "mobility and air based" yet give him two moves, a tp and a superman charge. Wow...should have had a akuma fireball or some kind of TK move he can hit you from the air that gives him juggles, he feels weak, limited and it's just an overall unpractical and a useless variation.

Spectral I would have done those changes or ditched it completely and made up a new variation where he uses his souls to attack you, perhaps making it a more defensive style with soul shields, armored moves etc similar to Jason and Sub's ice etc.

Other then this, the only other universal change I'd make are two things. One make his tp safe on block, not necessary giving him frame advantage, just fucking SAFE. So tired of getting punished the last two games and so many other people are safe on theirs. Secondly, his launch string the 2, 1, F2, D2 would have made easier string like 2, 2, 1 or 2, 2, B1 something like that instead. This is a preference I admit but I hate strings like F2, D3, 3+4 just makes it harder and a pain in the ass if your finger slips. And at first I would sometimes miss the D2 ender and if you do that he just does the normal finisher where he punches your head down. I hated that lol.

But yeah these would be my changes. I'd actually make Ermac decent and more viable for zoning like MK 9.

 

[Gonzo Dolo]

Why doesnt this guy work for Nrs ?

 

[14K]

Why doesnt this guy work for Nrs ?

Who Gonzo?

 

[Afk Skinny]

MoS is fine as is for me.

Mystic: I would let it keep the same tools it has now, but add a command grab, with the same animation as his throw from 9, and has a soul drain like Tsung. It lets him recover a little bit of health, and gives a slight damage buff to his TK moves.

Spectral: Let him place a soul somewhere on screen, and inputting a command would either have that soul be a tracking projectile, or he can instantly teleport to where that soul is. Also, give him a soul vortex type move (surrounds himself with souls like his win animation) and have it be a hit of armor that surrounds him where ever he goes on screen. (These seem more appropriate for MoS, but whatever.)

 

[Shark Tank]

Spectral
-throw in trash can

Mystic
-Remove levitate off of tk slam
-Normal TK slam is now -10
-Push is now -20
-Mystic now gives Ermacs normals longer pew pew tk hands for longer poking
-New mid screen telekinetic normals
-Renamed Mystic to Zonermac

 

[Afumba]

Mystic is the noob variation. Just leave that one alone.

Master of Souls is the default. Leave that one alone too.

No one plays the other variation, so change that one.

Mystic and noob variation ? What the what? Like... what???

@Afumba Cool stuff man. Its complitly ok, if the current Ermac is something you like but would you would make changes feel free to use it as ref. This topic is just for some chill conversations about how Ermac should be or feel and what if personally anyone would like to see anything diferent or new, all ideas are welcome.

I see your just like me, I cannot play a character if i dont like it, regardless of power lvl or how good they are. for me to play a character i must enjoy how they look/play/feel. Unfortunally for me that such character was Noob Saibot LOL. i complitly agree with you tho, i play MK cause i love Ninjas and robots and i said this countless times here in TYM, Ninjas Cyborgs Female Ninjas are the reason i always loved MK.

Yeah i can understand you enjoy the kinetic aspect of Ermac. My reasoning was based on the direction they are taking him to... on the older games he was a Ninja with kinetic powers, in this game he is more of a Sorc Mummy with souls and kinetic powers. thus my going more into the Soul aspect of him. But you do bring about a interesting idea, How cool would it be for a new Ninja to appear with the powers i mentioned ??
Now that would be cool LOL

I can feel your Noob sentiment... even though he was not my favorite i liked playing him cuz i dig his design. Shadow ninja... cmon its awesome
Yea... Ninjas are great Would like them all back! Beside MK9 smoke... couldnt play him... his hair was a no go lol. Give him a haircut and i reconsider

I thought i mighthave to do with the direction NRS is going. But i have to say i dont like it. I prefer the mystical appearance behind a ninja outfit. All this mummy-esque style is a nice addition for alternate costumes but its inferior to the original for me. If they keep him like this i hope i will have alternate costumes to change his appearance. I also like the MK9 outfit better... only Ermac outfit i would considering as worthy is probably the one made by that one designer

Yea your Ninja could be brown or orange or white hahaha I would play him.

 

[Afumba]

MOS I wouldn't touch much, overall it's his best variation. Though there is one move I'd probably replace, the air soul burst/vicinity blast is essentially useless. Here and there it'll hit the hitbox on it sucks so I'd replace it with an actual diagonal Akuma fireball....would help his zoning tremendously. They bring back the same move but smaller hitbox, why IDK...outside of the ex instant air version that juggles for some extra combo damage it serves little to no point.

The ground one it decent, but air one leaves something to be desired.

I would also have given him a fireball in EVERY variation, seriously WTF they give Kunt Lao his teleport, hat throws and dive kick in every damn variation but limited Ermac's fireball to one and Raiden's to one, I found this to be bullshit. Just shows they clearly favor certain characters over others...

I can I guess kind of see why they limited the TK push since so many people cried over Mac's zoning and range with it, so they limit it to one style but seriously they should have given him a universal fireball/soul ball. They could have just made it not stun in the other two variations, how hard is that? Or just change the animation, they could have given his mystic and spectral the original UMK3 fireball. I mean...come on.

Spectral I don't think I have to breakdown much, it sucks flat out, the only good thing going was nerfed so that's that with big meter gain. The air punches, kicks are utterly useless, you're rarely if ever going to get the opponent in the corner to do poke poke poke combos etc this variation they say it "mobility and air based" yet give him two moves, a tp and a superman charge. Wow...should have had a akuma fireball or some kind of TK move he can hit you from the air that gives him juggles, he feels weak, limited and it's just an overall unpractical and a useless variation.

Spectral I would have done those changes or ditched it completely and made up a new variation where he uses his souls to attack you, perhaps making it a more defensive style with soul shields, armored moves etc similar to Jason and Sub's ice etc.

Other then this, the only other universal change I'd make are two things. One make his tp safe on block, not necessary giving him frame advantage, just fucking SAFE. So tired of getting punished the last two games and so many other people are safe on theirs. Secondly, his launch string the 2, 1, F2, D2 would have made easier string like 2, 2, 1 or 2, 2, B1 something like that instead. This is a preference I admit but I hate strings like F2, D3, 3+4 just makes it harder and a pain in the ass if your finger slips. And at first I would sometimes miss the D2 ender and if you do that he just does the normal finisher where he punches your head down. I hated that lol.

But yeah these would be my changes. I'd actually make Ermac decent and more viable for zoning like MK 9.

I agree that regular airblast is garbage if not ex-ed or instant aired. You can just walk under it and it whiffs lol. But he has it in all variations not just MoS.

Peoples crying about a safer TKP or Macs tkp in MK9 are pathetic idiots that cry about everything that has to do with strong spacing/zoning. Those ppls should go play something else... like a hack n slay were you basicall run towrads everything and mash buttons without any regrets. Near everyone that got spaced out for a long time in MK9 by Ermac desevered it. He was no Kenshi....

MoS is fine as is for me.

Mystic: I would let it keep the same tools it has now, but add a command grab, with the same animation as his throw from 9, and has a soul drain like Tsung. It lets him recover a little bit of health, and gives a slight damage buff to his TK moves.

Spectral: Let him place a soul somewhere on screen, and inputting a command would either have that soul be a tracking projectile, or he can instantly teleport to where that soul is. Also, give him a soul vortex type move (surrounds himself with souls like his win animation) and have it be a hit of armor that surrounds him where ever he goes on screen. (These seem more appropriate for MoS, but whatever.)

I like the Soulteleport idea - awesome! They should remove vanish and add this one to MoS!
The armor thing would actually help Spectral if it would stay in fly mode... i can hear the crying though... Spectral gets first hit & flys away... enemy outraged opens 10 nerf Threads while the fight is still ongoing lol

 

[14K]

Mystic and noob variation ? What the what? Like... what???



I can feel your Noob sentiment... even though he was not my favorite i liked playing him cuz i dig his design. Shadow ninja... cmon its awesome
Yea... Ninjas are great Would like them all back! Beside MK9 smoke... couldnt play him... his hair was a no go lol. Give him a haircut and i reconsider

I thought i mighthave to do with the direction NRS is going. But i have to say i dont like it. I prefer the mystical appearance behind a ninja outfit. All this mummy-esque style is a nice addition for alternate costumes but its inferior to the original for me. If they keep him like this i hope i will have alternate costumes to change his appearance. I also like the MK9 outfit better... only Ermac outfit i would considering as worthy is probably the one made by that one designer

Yea your Ninja could be brown or orange or white hahaha I would play him.

Yeah man, i just cant, Noob Saibot was literally the best redesign ever. he jus tlooked so evil man i loved it... Dude yeah the Hair i couldnt get over it. but honestly the alt costume which is the one used in the cutscene for MKX 2 chapter looked cool and i wouldnt mind having that Smoke in the game. But taking Ninjas out of a MK game in general i feel is a bad move always... even for storyline reasons. Ninjas are the life blood of this game, its the reason the larger % of ppl play MK in the first place, but alas i digress...

Honestly tho i can imagine this costume Ermac has just as is but plz cover his face, for the love of god cover his face LOL...
Thanks man, im glad you enjoy my ideas for him/possible future char lol.

EDIT: @Afk Skinny / @Afumba Gotta say i love that idea for the teleport soul point. i think it would really make the variation shine

 

[14K]

I agree, my only issue is of late the other topic and this one the same people jumping on me for my opinions. I don't mind someone disagreeing, you're a prime example of an intellectual disagreeing without insults or putdowns. But I agree, I think this is a good thread for from the OP.

Yeah guys, i let you go on with it just so you could duke it out, but for the sake of maintaining the thread clean for everyone could i politly ask that you delete those posts and move to privite chats? i would greatly appreciate it. Thanks

 

[kabelfritz]

i would make one where he is a ball and particle effects stick to him and he grows bigger with every one.

 

[GAV]

Mystic and noob variation ? What the what? Like... what???

At least he only has one noob variation. Kung Jin's a noob character across all 4 variations.

This might look like a troll post, but its not. Mystic Ermac and Kung Jin are pick up and play characters.

 

[Shark Tank]

At least he only has one noob variation. Kung Jin's a noob character across all 4 variations.

This might look like a troll post, but its not. Mystic Ermac and Kung Jin are pick up and play characters.

MoS isn't any more technical. But having characters stay in the shitter because they're intended to be low skill cap characters is kind of bad design, not that I believe mystic is. But why is ancestral a noob variation? What's the criteria?

 

[D_Matt_Ma]

Mystic should be building meter so long as he is floating...

 

[GAV]

MoS isn't any more technical. But having characters stay in the shitter because they're intended to be low skill cap characters is kind of bad design, not that I believe mystic is. But why is ancestral a noob variation? What's the criteria?

Kung Jin can turn most hits into 30-40% combos with very little difficulty in execution. He also has great reach and priority.

Put two noobs in a match, make one of them Kung Jin, and the Kung Jin noob is going to walk away thinking he's awesome.

 

[Shark Tank]

Kung Jin can turn most hits into 30-40% combos with very little difficulty in execution. He also has great reach and priority.

Put two noobs in a match, make one of them Kung Jin, and the Kung Jin noob is going to walk away thinking he's awesome.

Does ancestral get the same consistent damage opening that bojustsu gets? Only thing he gets are high damage situational corner combos, otherwise he's basically a gimped zoner who has to make hard reads when people sprint at him.

 

[GAV]

Does ancestral get the same consistent damage opening that bojustsu gets? Only thing he gets are high damage situational corner combos, otherwise he's basically a gimped zoner who has to make hard reads when people sprint at him.

He can still jump around to win most exchanges and turn just about everything into 35%.

I know the focus here is high level play, but Kung Jin is entirely too good at the lower levels - IMO.

 

[KNX]

My Mystic changes are simple (honestly these are just straight up buffs lol):

- Tele-push and EX Tele-push recovery changed from -25 to -14 - Still punishable but wont be free to punish at its optimal range like it is currently.
- EX Tele-push damage buffed to 12% - Idgaf if that move steals life, 6% for an EX move that steals 2% life is not even close to enough.
- EX Tele-push life steal increased to 6% - Just as an alternative to the above, I think stealing the amount of damage it deals may be enough to be worth the meter without being ridiculous.
- EX Tele-hold gets a new animation, slams them one side then the other before bouncing, damage buffed to 10% - I just don't get why his Hang is unique, yet the EX version of this is just his generic EX slam he has in every variation... And 4%? I know its utility is to extend combos in certain situations but that is pitiful.

I STILL have my pocket Mystic Ermac in the hopes that he does get buffs one day... After seeing the treatment Kenshi and Shinnok got I'll remain optimistic.

With Spectral I feel like I could write and entire page of changes to turn it into a real variation instead of the lazy, joke variation that it is now, but I'll definitely save that for another day.

 

[Afumba]

At least he only has one noob variation. Kung Jin's a noob character across all 4 variations.

This might look like a troll post, but its not. Mystic Ermac and Kung Jin are pick up and play characters.

Ah... ok... i thought you refer to Noob Saibot. Anyways... yea Mystic Ermac might not be hard to pick and play but MoS isnt that far from it, if it is at all.
And if you find Mystic a noob variation that makes Spectral one as well by default. Beside that this game is full of characters that are pick and play & Kung Jin is probably not the only "pick and play" character that has more than one of those.

Anways i dont see how this factor matters in any way though.