Question How do i get around ice clones???

[SideShowCurse]

Ok so heres the deal i have been playing this game since its realese and i love it. Long tim MK fan love all the games starting with the first one. I consider myself pretty good at this game,I have a good record i can do combos and i understand how to utilize down pokes and things of that nature but my biggest problem is the ice clone... i have no answer for that been playing my buddy who mains Sub and i think i have played him close to a thousand times and he always rapes me i cant get inside on him period. He is psychic when it comes to ice clones cant teleport on him cause he will block and punish me cant even teleport with raiden cause as soon as i do he will punish with 2 1 before i can do anything... cant trade projectiles because i lose in the trade 9 times out of 10 just to get frozen and eat tons of damage and oh yeah if i get stuck in the corner forget about it im done. I have tried Kung Lao, Raiden, Ermac, and Reptile the most against him with no luck and i know all the advanced combos with each of them but cant get close enough to utilize them. So basically i need some tips on how i can beat him any help would be greatly appreciated.... THANX



THE ICE CLONE IS MY KRYPTONITE!!!!!!!

He catches me with ice clone on jumpin he catches me on wakeup and he uses it to push me into the corner and after that im screwed

By the way Alithvia is the person im talking about

I am the person Sideshowcurse is talking about. I play an extremely aggressive Sub-Zero against all of the characters listed. I use Ice Clone as a wall to slowly force him into the wall. I don't sit there and wait for him to attack me. I can win 95% of all the trades and rarely get zoned out by any of these characters. I never slide randomly and usually all of my wake-ups are clones. If I force him into the corner, It's 2,1,4~clone and then D4 for uninterruptable pressure. If he is standing blocking, I just spam 2,1 over and over until I get a combo, or use a throw. 2,1 timed properly is faster than a Reptile dash or even a throw. Almost all projectiles are dash blocked and Ermac's TKP is dash blocked.

 

[Alithvia]

Being as psychic or even more psychic than me would help.

 

[Lord Beef]

It sounds to me like you are possibly falling into patterns and not realizing it and he's picking up on it. It's hard to say though with out a bit more context. Is he catching you on jump ins? Is he back dashing after you finish a string, catching you as you go in for more pressure? Catching you in the air? These are all things you should look at within your game, and make changes if necessary. But like I said, at first blush, it sounds like he's capitalizing on predictability. From my experience, if I'm spending most of the match comboing someone who landed in my clone, its because theyre playing predictably, allowing me to anticipate and come out on top.

-b_s- :headbang:

 

[salvificblood]

Yeah, it's tough to say, a good Sub-Zero should feel somewhat like that to play against. There's no one button or tactic that you can go to that will get you a win 100% of the time. If the Sub-Zero player has downloaded you, you have to look at yourself. As beef said, you're probably falling into recognisable patterns and your friend's just reading you like a book.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Don't jump....

People always complain about it... and usually its because they get pressured a bit... then try a jump in punch and eat the clone. I myself do it in mirror matches.

The main thing to do is try and keep pressure on sub so he can't clone.

 

[Ironsoulsmasher]

Try not to jump in so much on sub, since that's the biggest way ppl get frozen. Too often people will get too aggressive and try to jump at sub, only to meet a clone and combo.

Kung Lao- try to rush down the hell out of him; watch for wake-up slides; make use of tele and ex tele
Ermac-zone the hell out of him; i think you may also be able to use TKP off of an ice-clone ending string.
Reptile-zone with rep(you can also spit when sub clones) while also playing a safe rushdown/pressure game (don't get too dash happy)

But overall, the best thing to do is PLAY SMART. Making good reads is paramount.

 

[Subby]

Ice clone feeds on patterns and Reads. The problem is that the opponent is reading you and knows your going to fall right into it. He can't do Ice clone up close so stay on him. If long range. Do a projectile once in a while and wait for him. His ice ball does no chip so he needs to come in to do damage so always block low until he's close.

 

[salvificblood]

My mate plays Kung Lao and you should hear him every time he eats the clone. He always says: "I didn't mean to do that there". He makes me laugh every time because I know he didn't mean to do it but he did. That's where Sub is a pain in the ass. The more frustrated you get, the more you start charging into clone traps.

The general adivce is be patient and when you get in, as others have said, stay on him. Pressure his wakeup, too, since a lot of Sub's like to do ice clone on wakeup.

 

[KPB BrOkenOneup]

yea and u wanna knock down sub alot on wake up he either slides or clones, the wakeup clones are really low to the floor so u have time and space to jump over. Besides that do wat subby said

 

[JennyCage]

Try letting him come to you. Ice Clone can't hit you if you don't go near it and Ice Ball does no chip damage. Usually a lot of Sub-Zeros will get impatient and try to slide in or rush you down, in which case you should be able to punish him.

 

[Alithvia]

I am the person Sideshowcurse is talking about. I play an extremely aggressive Sub-Zero against all of the characters listed. I use Ice Clone as a wall to slowly force him into the wall. I don't sit there and wait for him to attack me. I can win 95% of all the trades and rarely get zoned out by any of these characters. I never slide randomly and usually all of my wake-ups are clones. If I force him into the corner, It's 2,1,4~clone and then D4 for uninterruptable pressure. If he is standing blocking, I just spam 2,1 over and over until I get a combo, or use a throw. 2,1 timed properly is faster than a Reptile dash or even a throw. Almost all projectiles are dash blocked and Ermac's TKP is dash blocked.

 

[salvificblood]

Try letting him come to you. Ice Clone can't hit you if you don't go near it and Ice Ball does no chip damage. Usually a lot of Sub-Zeros will get impatient and try to slide in or rush you down, in which case you should be able to punish him.

Allowing Sub-Zero to approach behind 22 and d4 is a really bad idea because he has safe offense with stupid range and can push you to the corner while creating a line on the screen you can't go beyond: the clone. A good Sub-Zero doesn't just slide randomly for you to punish him.

 

[Lord Beef]

My mate plays Kung Lao and you should hear him every time he eats the clone. He always says: "I didn't mean to do that there". He makes me laugh every time because I know he didn't mean to do it but he did. That's where Sub is a pain in the ass. The more frustrated you get, the more you start charging into clone traps.

Lol, I did that in a mirror match a few times one night when I was somewhat drunk. Jesus i felt stupid. Even my roommates, who don't play where looking at me like, "REALLY DUDE?!"... it was pretty hilarious. All levity aside, check out the subz forums, theres a lot of info there that will give you insight into strategies/tactics surrounding the clone.

-b_s- :headbang:

 

[JennyCage]

Allowing Sub-Zero to approach behind 22 and d4 is a really bad idea because he has safe offense with stupid range and can push you to the corner while creating a line on the screen you can't go beyond: the clone. A good Sub-Zero doesn't just slide randomly for you to punish him.

I agree, that shit is bananas when Sub is rolling on you. But the point is to punish him before that happens. If he's playing Kung Lao he should be able to spin or low hat any approach attempt, hell he can counter jumpins with a neutral jump punch too. There's lots of ways to knock Sub down, you just gotta let him come to you to initially open him up. After that though I agree, rush him down and don't give him any room to breathe. He can't clone if you're too close to him and the best thing he can wakeup with is slide, which is predicable and hugely punishable.

 

[Creepy00]

Well, against sub zero keep in mind that he will try to bait you and play mind games. Iceclones in rage can be d4. Also it is punishable if ice clones doesnt come up. one thing with sub, dont jump over or wake up attacks without armor or you will fall for iceclones. It is about making him play your game.

Edit: Also depends on the sub's playerstyle.

 

[Eight]

Yeah, it's tough to say, a good Sub-Zero should feel somewhat like that to play against. There's no one button or tactic that you can go to that will get you a win 100% of the time. If the Sub-Zero player has downloaded you, you have to look at yourself. As beef said, you're probably falling into recognisable patterns and your friend's just reading you like a book.

Yes there is. We call these win buttons "Raiden" and "Kung Lao".

 

[Lord Beef]

Yes there is. We call these win buttons "Raiden" and "Kung Lao".

Epic

-b_s- :headbang:

 

[Creepy00]

Yes there is. We call these win buttons "Raiden" and "Kung Lao".

Sub actually has slight advantage against raiden. His iceclones behind you prevents raiden for superman you or teleporting. You want him to fall for your tricks. Kung lao well both character have to work, yeah kung has advantage in this match up but if outread him, you should win.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

I consider myself pretty good at this game,I have a good record

First and foremost, don't take your "record" seriously. That is if you're referring to your online record. It doesn't mean a thing. I have about 4500 wins and only 800 something losses, does that mean I'm good? No! I feel safe to say I suck. I'm on number 26 I think in the leaderboards.

Now on to Sub Zero. Sub Zero is a tough opponent if you let him be. If the Sub player knows what hes doing he can be intimidating. He can paralyze you with fear and train you to stay away from him with clones and his mixups. In other words, he can control the match. Thats what every Sub Zero tries to achieve. The first step you should take is not fearing him.

First you must know this, Sub has to get in whether he wants to or not, he cannot zone you to death because his projectiles cause no real chip damage and he just can't sit behind clones all day and expect you to fall into them. You should take advantage of this and always try to have a life lead on him. When you have a life lead on him Sub has to play more aggressive to even the pace, and playing more aggressive means making riskier choices and possible mistakes.

Another thing to know. Sub can make his strings safe on block. Any decent sub player will always try to end their string with a clone, to prevent you from advancing and rushing in on you once again or to begin the mindscrew. Every once in a while he will end in slide to catch you off guard, but that is highly punishable, so be on the look out for that. Ermac can nullify his safe strings though with a force push, so if you use Ermac, look out for that. On wake up, Sub is limited to clone or slide. Clone will not work if you are very close to him, so rush him down at times and keep him honest, try to bait slides and punish.

Zone Zone Zone! Sub has two ways of getting through projectile spam. Slide or good ol dash block or jump. Spam projectiles and whiff a few on purpose, bait the slide and jumpins. If he has meter, be on the lookout for EX Ice Blast. He can trade with that. Another thing you need to be weary of is turtling. Subs F+4 is an overhead and can be linked into a special. If you turtle look out for that. Another thing to know, You can escape the 50/50 B+2 after being frozen. Don't hold block if you see him try this. Instead, go for a well timed low poke or jump out but Be careful when doing so because sub can cancel the B+2 and go for more pressure. The reset however is inescapable I think. 212 ice blast dash ex ground freeze dash B+2 dash dash 214 slide. Also, dont fall prey to his low poke pressure. If he d+4's alot hes messing with you and is forcing you to get desperate to fall into an ice clone cancel or another booby trap. He's most likely wanting you to jump. It's not worth it, whats he getting from this, 3%, 4 %?

This match is all about patience. Sub has to get inside your head and play mindgames, do the same to him. Keep him guessing and don't repeat patterns. Sub is one of the few that benefits tremendously on pattern players and mistakes. Dont be afraid to mix it up. Rush Zone play footsies etc. And always remember, at all times always try to have a life lead on him. Hope this helps

 

[SideShowCurse]

Wow thanks for the quick responses everyone keep them coming lol... the only problem is these answers i kinda already know cause ive played sub so much... maybe my buddy just has my number lol

 

[Necrocyte]

sub is one of my easiest matches as a reptile player...i just zone the fuck out of him with a mixup of fast and slow forceballs and spit when i think he is going to try to throw an ice blast or jump in between my forceballs. i switch them based on how i read the opponent. i try to keep a full screen distance. but when the sub zero player finally gets in close i will react based on patterns they set: if they like to jump in once close enough, i charge a forceball and combo them. if they like to slide, forceball. if they like to get in close enough to start a pressure string, i'll dash. if they like to ice clone and bait a dash, i spit or forceball. and so on...i just find sub zero to be an easy match as reptile, just have to use dash sparingly and you don't really have to worry too much about ice clones. i will really only use dash when i get him to believe something else is coming. then i create more space.

i know this is reptile specific, and i do a lot of it based on my read of the individual i am playing, but a lot of this same style can be copied with other characters. i posted this because i see your avatar is reptile, good luck hope it helps.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

First and foremost, don't take your "record" seriously. That is if you're referring to your online record. It doesn't mean a thing. I have about 4500 wins and only 800 something losses, does that mean I'm good? No! I feel safe to say I suck. I'm on number 26 I think in the leaderboards.

Now on to Sub Zero. Sub Zero is a tough opponent if you let him be. If the Sub player knows what hes doing he can be intimidating. He can paralyze you with fear and train you to stay away from him with clones and his mixups. In other words, he can control the match. Thats what every Sub Zero tries to achieve. The first step you should take is not fearing him.

First you must know this, Sub has to get in whether he wants to or not, he cannot zone you to death because his projectiles cause no real chip damage and he just can't sit behind clones all day and expect you to fall into them. You should take advantage of this and always try to have a life lead on him. When you have a life lead on him Sub has to play more aggressive to even the pace, and playing more aggressive means making riskier choices and possible mistakes.

Another thing to know. Sub can make his strings safe on block. Any decent sub player will always try to end their string with a clone, to prevent you from advancing and rushing in on you once again or to begin the mindscrew. Every once in a while he will end in slide to catch you off guard, but that is highly punishable, so be on the look out for that. Ermac can nullify his safe strings though with a force push, so if you use Ermac, look out for that. On wake up, Sub is limited to clone or slide. Clone will not work if you are very close to him, so rush him down at times and keep him honest, try to bait slides and punish.

Zone Zone Zone! Sub has two ways of getting through projectile spam. Slide or good ol dash block or jump. Spam projectiles and whiff a few on purpose, bait the slide and jumpins. If he has meter, be on the lookout for EX Ice Blast. He can trade with that. Another thing you need to be weary of is turtling. Subs F+4 is an overhead and can be linked into a special. If you turtle look out for that. Another thing to know, You can escape the 50/50 B+2 after being frozen. Don't hold block if you see him try this. Instead, go for a well timed low poke or jump out but Be careful when doing so because sub can cancel the B+2 and go for more pressure. The reset however is inescapable I think. 212 ice blast dash ex ground freeze dash B+2 dash dash 214 slide. Also, dont fall prey to his low poke pressure. If he d+4's alot hes messing with you and is forcing you to get desperate to fall into an ice clone cancel or another booby trap. He's most likely wanting you to jump. It's not worth it, whats he getting from this, 3%, 4 %?

This match is all about patience. Sub has to get inside your head and play mindgames, do the same to him. Keep him guessing and don't repeat patterns. Sub is one of the few that benefits tremendously on pattern players and mistakes. Dont be afraid to mix it up. Rush Zone play footsies etc. And always remember, at all times always try to have a life lead on him. Hope this helps

can we delete this ??? leave no stone unturned do we GLM....?????????????? lol
this is all you really need to know.

 

[N0rdicNinja]

First and foremost, don't take your "record" seriously. That is if you're referring to your online record. It doesn't mean a thing. I have about 4500 wins and only 800 something losses, does that mean I'm good? No! I feel safe to say I suck. I'm on number 26 I think in the leaderboards.

I assure you he is good, I've watched this man take Brady to the final round in a top 8 match with over 60 people watching him in the room AND he was on stream. Curse is fucking legit, I assure you.