Give me your tips against Sub-Zero and Cage.

[Massive Kano]

High tier bad matchups are getting me down.

And try to be more useful than y'all were in my Mileena thread, dammit. ant2:

 

[xXMalakianXVII]

I'm not really sure what to tell you since you probably know most of what I'm going to offer... I usually start all Sub Zero matches by air balling right away, it will go over a clone hitting them in the face and if they jump they lose obviously and if they just block standing still it whiffs and they could probably slide or something on reaction but I've never seen it done to me and you could just block low in time I think.

I try to stay either full screen or right up close, you basically won't win ever at midscreen against Sub Zero. Throw knives at full screen trying to bait the slide occasionally, and I think even EX Freeze loses to a knife if timed correctly. But if you're at midscreen be ready to react and any good Sub Zero will be inside of the clone so they can't get airballed so try to pay attention to where they're standing next to the clone so you can airball them and try to not get worked into the corner so quickly, you need as much of the screen as possible so after every knife hits... I like to scoot up a little bit and try to pressure with whatever you feel is going to be the safest option at that moment. I will say you can take a few slides here and there, but the pressure he can put on you during your wake up is pretty annoying. I get so scared to upball because of clones and I get grabbed alot by Sub Zero so I can't really offer much advice there. If Sub Zero starts to poke me alot in a fight, I usually just straight ball but it's kind of risky since they can cancel any poke into a clone but you could also jump straight up and airball to catch them in the face after a clone if you notice they are doing this pattern. You have to learn how the Sub Zero player is spacing the match quickly, and don't be afraid to grab him is you feel he is blocking correctly, as you want to be able to get damage on him since he can hide and chip you away with safe strings giving him the life lead... And if you're willing to try it, you should be keeping count on the ice clone timer and attempt to rush in or try dash blocking into the clones if the Sub Zero is rather far from the clone but it's risky to time.

I don't have any real advice against Cage, I don't seem to have much problems with him as it seems pretty simple to fight him. Well, more simple than Sub Zero that's for sure... So I don't know, that's really all I got. Looking back on it I could use some help myself with him, but I feel like I am pretty even with Sub Zero so far.

What problems do you have with Sub & Cage specifically...?

 

[Enenra]

Zone.

 

[PND_Mustard]

well, ive been using kano on and off since day 1, ive never had an issue with sub zero as the knives are hands down godlike in speed compared to sub zeros, i cant offer any advice on the JC matchup as ive not played it much as kano, but for sub id DEFINATELY suggest keeping him away with knives , ironically i find the best anti sub tactic for any character is to turtle better than he can lmao

 

[ADR Napalm]

Malak said it good with the Sub Zero matchup. I have big problems vs good Cage players as well. So hard to get his block strings the hell off of you, for me anyway.

 

[BEENEEWEENEES]

most subs WILL TRY to slide under knife spam and they WILL HIT YOU if you chuck them endlessly. bait the slide, punish. if sub zero gets you locked in the corner with a clone, you can try to neutral jump -> air ball to escape or ex upball if the clone isn't right on you. mashing upball in the corner against clones will only wind up with sub knocked down for a sec and you frozen, ready to eat a combo.

cage; knives and bait out ex shadow kick and punish it. a good johnny cage player can (offline) ex kick you on reaction to a knife... i don't know if you play primarily offline or online but knife stuff is risky against cage because of that. sub is different since the side is so slow, they'd have to read the knife to hit you with it, but cage's kick is fast enough to get it through on reaction. fighting cage is pretty linear with everyone, not just kano: block the mixups, poke out with d3. you can try to poke out with d3 and then upball if you're confident that the cage player isn't blocking. cage v kano is tuff.

 

[Massive Kano]

cage; knives and bait out ex shadow kick and punish it. a good johnny cage player can (offline) ex kick you on reaction to a knife...

See, the Cages that use their meter for EX kicks are the ones I don't have significant trouble with. EX kick is nothing but half a breaker or a third of a godlike Cage X-Ray spent for a small bit of damage. The knockback on the kick insures that it does nothing to improve Cage's position relative to the opponent unless that opponent already has his back to the corner. Plus Cage still eats damage from any knife he passes through and the kick itself is predictable and punishable on block.

The ones that simply dash block right up into your face are the ones to look out for.

Similarly, let's assume some Sub-Zeros that simply do not do unsafe slides into punishment.

Mediocre and bad players I can beat all day. Don't need any advice on them.

 

[BEENEEWEENEES]

haha, then just don't get cornered by sub ^_^ chuck a knife when you think a raw ice clone is coming out and it'll punish and also dissipate said clone. beyond that, it's pretty simple anti-sub stuff. don't do any raw jump ins, try to jump or x-ray unblockable set ups (pains in the ass)... sub zero just requires you to be extra cautious. from full screen (offline), you can throw a knife when you see subby's ice ball start-up and you'll hit him and not be frozen, but don't try to rely on that from anywhere other than full screen.

fighting cage is the same with most characters, especially the ones not fortunate enough to have a teleport. use them toes to get him off you or upball if you're feeling confident. cage is a bitch against most of the cast that don't have super effect zoning shenaningans (like kitana or sindel) or "get out of jail free" moves that let em escape pressure. guess correctly! :top:

 

[MagicMan357]

zone, thats what i do even though its pretty half assed

 

[Ruuku1012]

I really don't like playing against JC so I try to mostly zone him from far. I'm having trouble with the match up but I think air Kano Ball and back dash to get away works pretty well. I've had some success with with back dash into choke/up Kano Ball/d3/d1 as well. For SZ, I usually try to start the pressure on him first and haven't had too much trouble so far. To me it feels like the fight focuses on who has the best spacing and the best reactions.

 

[Doctor_V]

I love Kano and he has good matchups over most of the cast but Id say theres 10 characters that are horrible matchups for him and Cage and Sub are one of those 10.