What's new

General/Other Ex freeze and the dash nerf

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
I meant to make a thread about this on the day the patch came out but I've been too salty to even do it, lol, but I want to point this out, in any case.

As soon as I received the latest the patch, the first thing I noticed was the dash nerf (which is a very stupid change, in my opinion), and so I thought I'd try our new freeze durations out in practise just to see how the new lack of mobility affects Sub-Zero's game. What I discovered is that the regular iceball grants you a full combo even on an airborne opponent from fullscreen but the ex freeze is now almost impossible to combo off when you catch your opponent in the air, especially at fullscreen.

Personally, I have a big problem with this. For one thing, I have always ALWAYS used the ex freeze to check people to both make them afraid of spamming projectiles when I have meter and to make them afraid of jumping over regular iceballs at any screen distance. I can't do this anymore.... a regular iceball is just not a good anti-air, (who the hell uses a regular iceball as an anti-air?) so it receiving extra freeze frames on airborne opponents while the ex freeze does not is a what-the-hell change for me. I do consider this a nerf to Sub-Zero even if it is an unintended one, just for the simple fact the ex freeze granted me a full combo on airborne opponents (even at fullscreen), and now it rewards me with nothing in a lot of cases. I've just burned a bar of meter for my opponent to fall to the ground before I can get there. Amazing.

The point of making this thread is to clarify why I am constantly reminding Sub-Zero players that the latest patch did not help as much as they think it did. If NRS changed the ex freeze to freeze for longer on airborne opponents in the same way they increased the time a regular freeze keeps an opponent frozen, it would go a long way to fixing Sub-Zero. As it stands, it's completely illogical. Why can I get a full combo on an airborne opponent off a regular free but not off an ex freeze?
 

REO

Undead
The patch notes left out: (among numerous things for many characters)

- Increased duration on Ice Clone.
- Proximity on ice clone has been improved (will only shatter if opponent is pointblank now)

Confirmed by Tom Brady himself.


Watch Tom Brady's Sub-Zero at devestation and seasons beatings if you want to see why most consider Sub-Zero top now.
 

zee

Icy
Have you tried dash cancelling into a jump, then dashing into combo as soon as you land? I know it's bullshit that we're forced to do these gymnastics now.

The first thing I noted was that I couldn't dash up to Noob after a Shadow/Ice Blast trade to get a combo. Jump, jump again into combo -- oops, jumped right over him like a douche. Jump, dash into combo... it'll work if I'm lucky. I need more new-patch experience with this Noob I play against to become an expert at reading distances, and figure out when to do two jumps or dash xx jump. This dash nerf was uncalled for.
 

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
The patch notes left out: (among numerous things for many characters)

- Increased duration on Ice Clone.
- Proximity on ice clone has been improved (will only shatter if opponent is pointblank now)

Confirmed by Tom Brady himself.


Watch Tom Brady's Sub-Zero at devestation and seasons beatings if you want to see why most consider Sub-Zero top now.
I hope Tom does really well with Sub but the point of this thread was not to say Sub-Zero is a bad character, just to point out one of the main issues I have with Sub-Zero post patch. The ex slide and the clone improvements don't remedy what I am bringing up in my first post.

We could probably do with a post-patch Sub-Zero thread for all the buffs to be listed, to be honest.

Have you tried dash cancelling into a jump, then dashing into combo as soon as you land? I know it's bullshit that we're forced to do these gymnastics now.

The first thing I noted was that I couldn't dash up to Noob after a Shadow/Ice Blast trade to get a combo. Jump, jump again into combo -- oops, jumped right over him like a douche. Jump, dash into combo... it'll work if I'm lucky. I need more new-patch experience with this Noob I play against to become an expert at reading distances, and figure out when to do two jumps or dash xx jump. This dash nerf was uncalled for.
Yes, I've tried this. I've had the same problems as you with this method. Just jumping right over people so I combo them away from the corner. Completely ridiculous.
 
The patch notes left out: (among numerous things for many characters)

- Increased duration on Ice Clone.
- Proximity on ice clone has been improved (will only shatter if opponent is pointblank now)

Confirmed by Tom Brady himself.


Watch Tom Brady's Sub-Zero at devestation and seasons beatings if you want to see why most consider Sub-Zero top now.
Woah, why has that not come up sooner? That seems pretty huge to me, that sounds like it would make it impossible to stay on top of him.

I don't pretend to know anywhere near as much about sub as Tom but I'm interested to hear why he needs fixing at this point. The EX freeze sounds inconsistent, certainly, but he looks nothing short of amazingly powerful now.
 

Ravox

Winter is Coming...
Knockdowns.. now I understand why u told who use b1, 2, 1 is a fool.

But why Knockdown is that important?


Teach me, Oh Master :eek:
 

RampaginDragon

Loses to uppercuts
Tom Brady said:
wait till you read what i found out about the 212~clone in this patch. its probably a bug, but its a buff lol.
Soo... Are you going to tell us this jewl here or are you going a make a thread about it. Im curious about this.

Why do you always want to knockdown? So you can ice clone and continue zoning? And I think wake-ups go through ice clones now if I remember right. But they definetly go through ice parry :grr:

Also this is a Question to anyone with an awnser, I have got to the point where I hate fihting Sub Zero.

It may be a little bit of a dick move but what do you guys think is the best fighter to shut SZ down? Kitana? If it is Kitana what should my strategy against ice clone happy Sub-Zeros? Or a strategy with any other charecter to counter him for that matter.

Right now if I know im going to hate the SZ im about to fight I pick Scorpion, because of hell fire for the most part. And because he only has to get in once to do good damage.

So, sugestions please

Thanks.
 

Killphil

A prop on the stage of life.
The patch notes left out: (among numerous things for many characters)

- Increased duration on Ice Clone.
- Proximity on ice clone has been improved (will only shatter if opponent is pointblank now)

Confirmed by Tom Brady himself.


Watch Tom Brady's Sub-Zero at devestation and seasons beatings if you want to see why most consider Sub-Zero top now.
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
The patch notes left out: (among numerous things for many characters)

- Increased duration on Ice Clone.
- Proximity on ice clone has been improved (will only shatter if opponent is pointblank now)

.

hmmmm....im wonder what else has been "left out"
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Tom Brady said:
this patch has put sub in the top tier. the dash nerf helps sub not hurts him. footsies is more important in mk now. also, using ex freeze from full screen is more of a trying to catch a projectile not a jumper.

sub is all about knockdowns, thats what he needs. as a fellow sub player, dark rob has seen how i play around knockdowns and he can attest that it is the best way to use sub. ex freeze as an anti air from full screen will still give you a slide at minimum so you still get a knockdown.
I like hearing stuff like this. I think we are all on pins and needles about the 2,1,2~clone. I know I am.
 

Truth

Noob
Brady should release this new info after the 2 majors coming up, so his opponents don't just scout the SZ forums for counter-strategies lol. If the game is becoming more slow-paced and footsie-orientated I don't see how this is a nerf for SZ because SZ's mobility wasn't the best to begin with and he has one of the best footsies in the game with his D4~clone shenanigans.
 
I meant to make a thread about this on the day the patch came out but I've been too salty to even do it, lol, but I want to point this out, in any case.

As soon as I received the latest the patch, the first thing I noticed was the dash nerf (which is a very stupid change, in my opinion), and so I thought I'd try our new freeze durations out in practise just to see how the new lack of mobility affects Sub-Zero's game. What I discovered is that the regular iceball grants you a full combo even on an airborne opponent from fullscreen but the ex freeze is now almost impossible to combo off when you catch your opponent in the air, especially at fullscreen.

Personally, I have a big problem with this. For one thing, I have always ALWAYS used the ex freeze to check people to both make them afraid of spamming projectiles when I have meter and to make them afraid of jumping over regular iceballs at any screen distance. I can't do this anymore.... a regular iceball is just not a good anti-air, (who the hell uses a regular iceball as an anti-air?) so it receiving extra freeze frames on airborne opponents while the ex freeze does not is a what-the-hell change for me. I do consider this a nerf to Sub-Zero even if it is an unintended one, just for the simple fact the ex freeze granted me a full combo on airborne opponents (even at fullscreen), and now it rewards me with nothing in a lot of cases. I've just burned a bar of meter for my opponent to fall to the ground before I can get there. Amazing.

The point of making this thread is to clarify why I am constantly reminding Sub-Zero players that the latest patch did not help as much as they think it did. If NRS changed the ex freeze to freeze for longer on airborne opponents in the same way they increased the time a regular freeze keeps an opponent frozen, it would go a long way to fixing Sub-Zero. As it stands, it's completely illogical. Why can I get a full combo on an airborne opponent off a regular free but not off an ex freeze?
That was one of the first thing I noticed, was how the dash effected air frozen opponents. They only added 10 frames to a standing frozen opponent cuz they nerfed his dash, and not as a added bonus. If they didn't add the 10 frames they knew he wouldn't be able to trade projectiles with most of the cast and not dash in time to get his combo. I thought it was going to help with some matches, but after testing it, i found it got worse. Before i could trade with strykers gun from full screen and win the trade, now i can't dash in time to get my combo. All his trades are essentially the same or worse.


The patch notes left out: (among numerous things for many characters)

- Increased duration on Ice Clone.
- Proximity on ice clone has been improved (will only shatter if opponent is pointblank now)

Confirmed by Tom Brady himself.




Watch Tom Brady's Sub-Zero at devestation and seasons beatings if you want to see why most consider Sub-Zero top now.
Troll lol
 
It may be a little bit of a dick move but what do you guys think is the best fighter to shut SZ down? Kitana? If it is Kitana what should my strategy against ice clone happy Sub-Zeros? Or a strategy with any other charecter to counter him for that matter.

Right now if I know im going to hate the SZ im about to fight I pick Scorpion, because of hell fire for the most part. And because he only has to get in once to do good damage.

So, sugestions please

Thanks.
I actually pick Cage versus SZ even though common knowledge seems to dictate it's in Sub's favour.

Just armour through ice forts, get a health lead, then repeatedly try to tempt him into thinking he can make you trade his projectile.

Once he's worn down and gets reckless, find a way to land a nutpunch and put him in the cage. I've never had a Sub player really successfully escape that when I had X-ray ready.
 
That was one of the first thing I noticed, was how the dash effected air frozen opponents. They only added 10 frames to a standing frozen opponent cuz they nerfed his dash, and not as a added bonus. If they didn't add the 10 frames they knew he wouldn't be able to trade projectiles with most of the cast and not dash in time to get his combo. I thought it was going to help with some matches, but after testing it, i found it got worse. Before i could trade with strykers gun from full screen and win the trade, now i can't dash in time to get my combo. All his trades are essentially the same or worse.
My first impression was the same, that they have added the 10 extra frames to compensate for the removal of dash into dashing. Later I tought they might have done that to help against some chars, but the only one it helps sometimes is reptile, everyone else is the same if he/she is grounded, or worse if he/she got frozen in the air.

Someone said in the other thread that a char could to move as fast as before, using dash blocking, but I wont believe in it untill I see someone doing it in a video, I really didnt manage to move as fast as before.

All in all, the extra 10 frames + the dash nerf feels more like a nerf than a buff to SZ. But against reptile its really nice, at least by now that people havent figured out the new iceball yet.

The patch notes left out: (among numerous things for many characters)

- Increased duration on Ice Clone.
The duration of the Ice Clone itself or the time it freezes the opponent?
 
Okay just real quick, I'm sure others have noticed this.
Tom... how the hell does that ice spike come up out of ex ground freeze? (its in your sig)
Its blowing my mind
 

Bidu

the CHILL of DESPAIR
The patch notes left out: (among numerous things for many characters)

- Increased duration on Ice Clone.
- Proximity on ice clone has been improved (will only shatter if opponent is pointblank now)

Confirmed by Tom Brady himself.


Watch Tom Brady's Sub-Zero at devestation and seasons beatings if you want to see why most consider Sub-Zero top now.
Thanks for the info, Reo. Many of us didn't knew that yet, myself included.


I'm pretty sure he isn't talking about this, since it was always possible, even before this patch, correct me if I'm wrong.
 

Panque

Random foreign guy
Tom Brady said:
wait till you read what i found out about the 212~clone in this patch. its probably a bug, but its a buff lol.
Can you at least tell us how powerful it is compared to the reset? :p