General/Other - Reptile Dr. Syzoth or How I learned to stop worrying.

[ManBatHorse]

Yes, we all know Reptile does not have the best damage output in the game and some people demand buffs, expecting NRS to make him a top tier character with easy 40% combos. That's not what I want. I don't think he's supposed to deal huge damage.

I was training a bit with reptile, and I noticed something. Klaw Swipe(DB2), Klaw Slash(DB2 MB), Klaw Pounce(DB4), Klaw Bounce(DB4 MB) and the grab+acid vomit+ground slam part in the end of the Swamp Slam combo, the common "combo enders", all deal 7% damage. However, if we do a simple combo like 2,1,2,4 into F2,1,1+2; the {1+2} part of the combo will only deal 6% damage to the opponent, because of the damage scaling. This gets even worse when the combos get longer, taking away 1~4% of much needed damage from your combos.

Here's what I propose. All of reptile's combo "enders" won't be affected by damage scaling anymore. That way, all of our combos will be just a bit stronger, and we'll have better options to do combos.

As the game currently is:
F2,1,1+2 MB + F2,1,1+2 = 21%
after the change
F2,1,1+2 MB + F2,1,1+2 = 23%

As it is now:
F412 + DB3 MB + NJP + F2,1,1+2 = 28%
After the buff
F412 + DB3 MB + NJP + F2,1,1+2 = 31%

It looks like a pretty reasonable buff to me, but please tell me what you think.

 

[HatecraftsWife]

With Nimble, he gets 29% off of his OH for one bar mid screen. 30% meter less off if a F412 midscreen. 40% for 1 bar off of F412 midscreen. 49% for one bar in the corner off of F412. Around 30% off a low midscreen for one bar that he can option select. And can hit 51% for two bars in the corner off of F2. His damage scaling is fine. More meter less damage off his B2 would be nice, but that's about it

 

[Farpafraf]

If something needs a buff that's his -72 on block with 24(?) startup overhead.

 

[mamasau]

I think the damage of reptile revolves around the noxious variation that can safely use dd3 in many situations like at any hkd, at the ending of f412/14 and full screen resulting with good dmg numbers.
The damage itself isn't that bad, touching 30% midscreen is fine, at corner is a bit too low for the deceptive variation maybe.

The real issue is the forceball with his meterwasting(EDIT: I mean the option to stop the fb at any time), indeed Reptile needs meter for mostly anything.
I really hope they'll change the enhanced fb like something this:
noxious: chargable like in mk9, bigger hitbox;
nimble: same effect it has now but meterless;
deceptive: cancelable, little window to connect combos like liu kang fireball or jacqui ht.

 

[dribirut]

The character is mediocre. No ifs ands or buts about it.. People just have to get over it

 

[dribirut]

Also the reason repriles damage output is such a big deal is because his meter building game is really bad. Either make his zoning better so he has better ways to build Meter or give him a slight damage buff. Obviously thrse buffs would make him top and without them he stays mid. Either is fine. Don't really care

 

[Matix218]

Didn't read but had to give props on the amazing thread title

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

Thumbs up for thread title, thumbs down for asking for buffs.

 

[ManBatHorse]

With Nimble, he gets 29% off of his OH for one bar mid screen. 30% meter less off if a F412 midscreen. 40% for 1 bar off of F412 midscreen. 49% for one bar in the corner off of F412. Around 30% off a low midscreen for one bar that he can option select. And can hit 51% for two bars in the corner off of F2. His damage scaling is fine. More meter less damage off his B2 would be nice, but that's about it

Yeah, I know that in optimal circumstances his damage can go pretty high, especially with nimble. And you know very well I am not talking about all of his damage, I'm talking about increasing the final combo damage by a little bit. Many of these combos people talk about have really, really strict timing and are really hard to do online(at least on PC). Reptile is lacking in fast normals and most of his specials are really unsafe. Most of the time you'll be building meter hitting people's hands and feet with your reptillian face, because he's not really good at zoning. He's got a lot of weaknesses, and I think they should increase the damage a little bit to make up for that. Why do you think his damage should stay as it is? Because of the corner combo potential? Basilisk is not a very good reason for me, because it feels like having only one option. How am I supposed to use ex basilisk after a low combo? Using B3+EX Claw?

 

[ManBatHorse]

I think the damage of reptile revolves around the noxious variation that can safely use dd3 in many situations like at any hkd, at the ending of f412/14 and full screen resulting with good dmg numbers.
The damage itself isn't that bad, touching 30% midscreen is fine, at corner is a bit too low for the deceptive variation maybe.

The real issue is the forceball with his meterwasting, indeed Reptile needs meter for mostly anything.
I really hope they'll change the enhanced fb like something this:
noxious: chargable like in mk9, bigger hitbox;
nimble: same effect it has now but meterless;
deceptive: cancelable, little window to connect combos like liu kang fireball or jacqui ht.

I don't think they'll rework his mechanics now that they already released the game. And to be quite sincere, I like what they did with him. He's the same character in all three variations. If you manage to go invis, you make the opponent guess, so that you can hit him with a free combo. If you manage to go into basilisk mode in the middle of a combo, with a good performance you can get pretty high numbers. If you don't want either, you can use noxious for some extra chip damage. I want a reason to use reptile. His damage is not really good, he's not really safe and his attacks start up slow.

 

[Leo P]

My changes for Reptile would be simple and not too drastic.
Pounce travels faster and is cancelable similar to Takeda's teleport.
B1 startup reduced 2F
Forceball recovery reduced slightly maybe 2-4F

 

[Bobbyxton_]

Forceballs to have better recovery and ex to give better advantage

Klaw swipe to hit overhead

That's all I want

 

[Farpafraf]

Forceballs to have better recovery and ex to give better advantage

Klaw swipe to hit overhead

That's all I want

He already has an overhead special but at the moment it's nearly unusable.

 

[ManBatHorse]

This is not a "What should we buff to make Reptile top tier?" thread.

I just want to know if people here agree with my idea for a minor buff to his damage. Reptile is good at punishing defending enemies, at side switching and at carrying enemies to the corner and keeping them there. He's got good overhead options, and with meter, good low combo starters as well. His mechanics are interesting and fun. I just want to know if 3% more would make him more satisfying to play with or if this is not necessary and why

 

[Bobbyxton_]

He already has an overhead special but at the moment it's nearly unusable.

You're not wrong, but it's slow as shit and is just ridiculously bad, whereas klaw swipe is -10, fast and if it hit overhead, then enemies wouldn't be able to just block low and bait.

I just want to know if 3% more would make him more satisfying to play with or if this is not necessary and why

Damage doesn't make a character satisfying to play, so no, an extra 3% wouldn't change a thing. His damage is absolutely fine the way it is, there's just a few tweaks to his specials (Forceballs, Invisibility, Pounce & Swipe) and he'd be golden.

 

[Farpafraf]

You're not wrong, but it's slow as shit and is just ridiculously bad, whereas klaw swipe is -10, fast and if it hit overhead, then enemies wouldn't be able to just block low and bait.

That's exactly the reason why I'd rather buff that special (faster startup or less recovery on block: -72 is retarded) insted of klaw swipe which is perfectly fine the way it is.

 

[Leo P]

Damage obviously is not his major issue, nor was he designed to be a bruiser.
His game revolves around Oki and he excels in that aspect after a hard knockdown.
But... He does have a generally underwhelming neutral game with relatively risky options at times. I equate his play stye to Anji Mito/Ibuki his neutral is lackluster but he gets to do various tricky things on your wakeup which allows him to play his game no matter what the matchup the game plan never changes.

So any adjustments should be to help in the neutral game to better lead to the mixup opportunities.
Which is why I say...


Pounce travels faster and is cancelable similar to Takeda's teleport. -
This would allow to be able to punish better on reaction various different projectiles. Giving you a second option juxtaposed to slide to traverse the stage. While still leaving the risk attached because of the horrendous frame advantage and recovery of pounce.
Adding the cancel similar to Takeda would give more mixup potential from block strings, and conversely add more frame traps. While not making it run cancelable keeps him from becoming too overwhelming in the rushdown department but giving some utility to an almost useless attack.

B1 startup reduced 2F - This change may seem odd but I use back one as an anti-air quite often since it's only 1F slower than D2 and you can convert into HKD. B1 run F412 (ender) , B1 xx FFB ( slow FB MB), B1, F21 1+2 Etc... I also use it when I've been throwing out a lot of Acid Spit to fake and bait something.
I think having slightly less startup would make it a more consistent anti-air tool. Also the range is pretty deceiving also +17 on hit so it does have minimal application in neutral, so that would increase with this slight adjustment.
As is the string lead to a low which is not a scary or optimal mixup since the first hit is high and it doesn't lead to much damage without meter.


Forceball recovery reduced slightly maybe 2-4F - Just Cause !!!

 

[learis1]

I would like it if his claw pounce could be used as a footsie tool by making it -10 on block. If spaced correctly, it's hard to punish. I think it's slow enough to be reacted blocked, so I don't think it would be overpowered, just give him some more versatility so he's not a solely close up character.

 

[ManBatHorse]

Thanks for the answers.

I changed the title accordingly

 

[learis1]

This would be kind of crazy, but what if he could dash/run cancel the startup of his forceballs like how hellfire scorpion does it with his fireballs? Yeah, I know it's nuts but would be a lot of fun.

 

[Israel]

Great thread title. Great post. Great sincerity. Reasonable request.

 

[Bobbyxton_]

I also use it when I've been throwing out a lot of Acid Spit to fake and bait something.

I love doing this but doing FFB b1 then running in and pressuring with f41 21 etc

 

[dribirut]

A verrry sensible buff would be to decrease the damage scaling on his f12 1+2 to make it do as much damafe or 1% more damage than the f312 slide ender. This would allow him to keep his damafe and best knockdowm ender for a nice 29-31% combo

 

[ManBatHorse]

A verrry sensible buff would be to decrease the damage scaling on his f12 1+2 to make it do as much damafe or 1% more damage than the f312 slide ender. This would allow him to keep his damafe and best knockdowm ender for a nice 29-31% combo

I've been playing some good characters these last couple days and I came to two conclusions

• Either Reptile has to be buffed to a point where his damage meterless is enough to let him save meter for breakers, armored wake ups, and x rays or he has to turned into a safe and faster character.

• I am not a high level player, so I don't really need to worry much about breakers, high damage combos and stuff. I can just keep playing, and winning, by exploiting the enemies weaknesses, something reptile is good at.
  

The buff you want wouldn't change things. Maybe not even my idea would for a buff be enough. Asking for buffs and speculating is useless. I'll keep to myself and switch to D'vorah if reptile gets boring.

 

[tatterbug4]

His dmg is low because he has a lot of set ups and I think the testers were scared to give a character to much power.

In all honesty his force ball set ups are almost useless you really only do them midscreen because as a ender all you do is get punished.

Everyone has something to get out of the set ups for ALMOST free. Ex: any dive kick. ANY teleport. Anyone with a slide like subz or scorps takedown. Meter burn a move (not free). Or attempt to jump kick reptile which isn't hard.


The ONLY buff witch I feel is fair is.

Make the hit box hit opponents that do a low profile move. - this isn't asking for much.

and 141 to be able to be canceled into a special so you can do 141 into force ball.

That's it this is reasonable and will only make the force ball set ups not awful.