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Match-up Discussion Doomsday Matchup Discussion

Sublime

Stop blocking my hits with your face!
My only bad MU´s are so far: Green Arrow.. i seriously dont know what to do vs him, Aquaman same as GA keepaway is good if player knows what hes doing and lastly Superman well he is SUPERman lol
 

SimSim

Norwegian Lab-work Champion
My only bad MU´s are so far: Green Arrow.. i seriously dont know what to do vs him, Aquaman same as GA keepaway is good if player knows what hes doing and lastly Superman well he is SUPERman lol
As a Green Arrow player I would have to agree. I feel his sky alert (db1) that shootes arrows upwards, counters DD's Supernova very nicely for a full juggle combo. I dare say that GA can even do this pre emptively as it hits DD even when he is above the visible part of the screen.

Also d1 xx ice arrow seems to stop a lot of DD's offense and d2 anti airs splash!
 
As a Doomsday main, I have trouble with several matchups and would like to know if you guys have any advice at all. Anything helps.

-Batman:

Batman's zoning is pretty solid against Doomsday in my opinion. His batarangs hit twice, locking down your trait somewhat effectively. This isn't a huge issue, however, as you'll pretty much always get in on a player as Doomsday. My real issue in the matchup is dealing with Batman's offense. I feel like Doomsday gets locked down by a lot of Batman's jump-in setups, and with Batman's trait in play, I find it very difficult to anti-air grab, even when I predict the jump. I guess my main question for this matchup is "Is there any other option on Batman's jump-in than to simply read it and anti-air grab?" My other question for this matchup is regarding his B23. It's completely safe isn't it? Any advice on positioning yourself for what may follow?

-Superman:

I'm honestly at a loss in this matchup. I feel like there really isn't a good place to use trait, since his activates much quicker and will shatter your armor in a single hit. On his airdash crossup setup, I've experimented with option-select venoms. I input ground venom when I predict an airdash, so that if he airdashes in, it will autocorrect to anti-air venom in the other direction, and if it is too quick, I will charge forward out of the setup. It seems very unreliable though, as his airdash is incredibly quick. It seems very hard to get anything started in this matchup. Superman's mobility makes him really tough to catch as Doomsday in my experience. I don't have too much issue with his zoning, however, I do feel the way his air eye beams make him float makes it difficult to anti-air him. Dashing in, my anti-air venom gets beat out on startup by the beams, and after the beams, he seems safe to airdash away and continue giving me the runaround. My real issue in the matchup isn't really Doomsday-specific, but I would love some advice regarding it. It's Superman's frametraps. His offensive options make me guess for string after string, and I don't really see a way out. Does Doomsday have something he can buffer to beat out some of Superman's common frametraps? They seem incredibly strong, and I feel obligated to push block him a lot of the time, putting me at meter disadvantage, and giving him the space he needs to continue his gameplan against my character. I'm having trouble finding information as to where Superman is vulnerable, and it is getting to be a highly frustrating matchup.

-Sinestro:

This seems like a matchup where I am guessing when it is safe to dash... from fullscreen. His MB-ball projectile anti-airs, locks down armor, and beats out the option of dashing for good damage. I can't even attempt to bait his meter by non-MB-supernovaing, as Sinestro can use his falling meteor on-reaction to beat it out clean. At the same time, dashing in leaves me vulnerable to his shackle for a full combo. Most of Sinestro's combos knock you back full-screen as well, restarting the process. I know I can punish his falling meteor from about fullscreen, but smart Sinestros wont use it unless on reaction to supernova. This seems very difficult in my opinion. Am I supposed to simply block and walk forward until he burns all his meter?

-Nightwing:

This is a matchup I've given up using my trait entirely on. I take more damage with it on than I would simply blocking. I have literally had my super beat out by Nightwing's staff stance D1 because of my trait being active. The range on his staff's normals will stagger any approach with incredible ease it seems. It feels like if he is mashing out his D1 (Staff stance) after his strings, it will beat out anything I try to throw. Generally, Doomsday's D1 can be used for throw setups and frametraps, but I simply cannot get my head around beating his D1 (Staff stance). I know Doomsday's backdash is mediocre, but is there any point through Nightwing's D1 spam that I can backdash or beat it out with something? I've been resorting to just pushblocking him off of me. I'm aware I can use my D1 on the startup of his overhead (Staff stance), as well as some of his other slower startup moves, but it seems it has to be a read, and if you try reacting, it is too late and you will get hit.

-Black Adam:

His wakeup game is just incredible as most of you know. I'm aware I can venom his backdash on wakeup, but his wakeup lightning cage just boggles my mind. He gets 40% off a wakeup move that covers so many options... I feel if I know he is going to lightning cage, I just have to back off to midscreen distance and get a weak punish. Respecting his wakeup so heavily means if he decides to backdash, he'll be entirely safe. Any general advice in the match, or how to deal with wakeup lightning cage is very helpful.

-Deathstroke:

What is the best punish you can get off his wakeup sword flip? I've been resorting to just sweeping in an online environment. Is there a move that will beat it out on wakeup such as earthshake? I've been respecting his wakeup more than I feel I should simply because it is online. I feel this is usually a pretty easy or at least even matchup, but I'd love to know optimal options to ruin his wakeup game even more.
____________________

Thanks for reading, guys. Anything info is helpful. I really love Doomsday, but I'm getting really frustrated in about 3-4 of these matches and have been considering picking up a sub to counter them, but can't really find one.
 

HungryforPasta

Come and Get it!
As a Doomsday main, I have trouble with several matchups and would like to know if you guys have any advice at all. Anything helps.


-Deathstroke:

What is the best punish you can get off his wakeup sword flip? I've been resorting to just sweeping in an online environment. Is there a move that will beat it out on wakeup such as earthshake? I've been respecting his wakeup more than I feel I should simply because it is online. I feel this is usually a pretty easy or at least even matchup, but I'd love to know optimal options to ruin his wakeup game even more.
Heavy list of match-ups, I'll just throw my 2 cents on Deathstroke.
What's the best punish for sword flip?
You're using sweep at the moment? Pretty safe/solid/reliable
you could also throw if you wanted something as safe but a little more damaging

I personally use 123 venom,
lag may get in the way of this but give it a try nonetheless

my question is: Would close 3 work if DS lands close enough?
if it does then cl 3 xx es mb d2 b3 combo might be possible if he lands close enough
 

Sublime

Stop blocking my hits with your face!
As a Doomsday main, I have trouble with several matchups and would like to know if you guys have any advice at all. Anything helps.

-Batman:

I guess my main question for this matchup is "Is there any other option on Batman's jump-in than to simply read it and anti-air grab?"

-Superman:

Does Doomsday have something he can buffer to beat out some of Superman's common frametraps?

-Sinestro:

Am I supposed to simply block and walk forward until he burns all his meter?


-Deathstroke:

What is the best punish you can get off his wakeup sword flip? I've been resorting to just sweeping in an online environment. Is there a move that will beat it out on wakeup such as earthshake?
____________________

Thanks for reading, guys. Anything info is helpful. I really love Doomsday, but I'm getting really frustrated in about 3-4 of these matches and have been considering picking up a sub to counter them, but can't really find one.

Allright, here my 2cents from my experience w certain MU´s

Batman: I personally dont find Air Snatch being so difficult to land but if ur having problems u should try MB B3 or MB F3 or even Up Venom

Supes: I try mostly land D1 into Earth Shaker or sweep afterwards

Sinestro: No just block high mostly and DASH is keyword of this matchup.. Even good Sines players will get fucked at close once u get in but remember be patient.

DS: Best? Online? Doing Venom is 100% punish or 112 or D3 that gives knockdown (123+Venom is good but i rather do regular since its sureshot) What comes to DS that does wakeup SF? I rather wait them do it since its free punish or try jump in and do air D3 late as possible

Hope these helps but to me it seems u just need more time w DD get overall fightning experience vs foes w diff strategies.. And pushblock them w right timing :)
 

loogie

Noob
Fellow DD-ers,
I am having a very difficult time vs Green Lanter, and Green Arrow ... would have smashed my controller yesterday, it was that frustrating.
Can anyone highlight these matchup specifics and do's don't's?
Thanks

GL:
- Gattling gun fucks up so many options for getting in, i cannot use trait effectively and I end up wasting it most of the time. If GL sees you traiting, he will do the machine gun and its over when he has meter you wasted your trait right there. it's completely safe too, on block the pushback is too great to do any punish.
- Crossup after knockdown is risky, he catches me with the ring lift thing and I eat big damaging combo. the hurtbox on the ring lift is stupid, it goes over his head. Ermac could be crossd up, even Noob upshadow can be crossed up but this one is impossible i think.

GA:
- I truly believe this is his worse matchup, there is just no way of getting in on GA.
- is there a way to escape the Super setup? i lose 100% of health from 2 combos in round2 most of the time if he has full meter. GA doesnt really need to use MB on his specials, so he saves it for the super gimmick setup or whatever. I cant escape that shit!

Lately, I am bordering on dropping the game altogether because I just dont have answers to alot of matchups (same with my other main, Grundy). Vs Zoners, I just suffer. Surprisingly, i have adapted to the DS matchup and the dashblocking, but against more dynamic zoners who can get in and out like GL and GA, and mix in rushdown with their zoning i just get owned big time!
 

MastererBetty

Your Tears My Strength
Fellow DD-ers,

GL:
- Gattling gun fucks up so many options for getting in, i cannot use trait effectively and I end up wasting it most of the time. If GL sees you traiting, he will do the machine gun and its over when he has meter you wasted your trait right there. it's completely safe too, on block the pushback is too great to do any punish.
- Crossup after knockdown is risky, he catches me with the ring lift thing and I eat big damaging combo. the hurtbox on the ring lift is stupid, it goes over his head. Ermac could be crossd up, even Noob upshadow can be crossed up but this one is impossible i think.

GA:
- I truly believe this is his worse matchup, there is just no way of getting in on GA.
- is there a way to escape the Super setup? i lose 100% of health from 2 combos in round2 most of the time if he has full meter. GA doesnt really need to use MB on his specials, so he saves it for the super gimmick setup or whatever. I cant escape that shit!
GL:
Gatling Gun does mess up trait pretty bad however the move does not go full screen. I found that traiting from this safe distance and burn meter for MB Supernova while he is spamming Gatling Gun. Now since trait makes supernova relatively safe it's great gimmick to get in, but that's all it is just a gimmick. The real thing is for to make the GL worried that you're going to do it again so you can try a MB Venom instead.

Ring Lift is a pretty awesome move that makes it you can't go in the air against him, but after knowing the anti-wakeup tech that was released first week I'm pretty sure it's a safe jump in after sweep.

GA:
I don't like going in on this guy without Trait sometimes I'll just sit full screen and wait for trait or MB Venom in. Having him catch me with an ice arrow annoys me to all hell so I think trait will play very important.

GA j.3 is a nice air move he will do this quite often and can be spaced to make Air Snatch hitbox useless against this move. Instead of Air Snatch j.2 is going to be important since it will beat GA j.3 clean and you can hit confirm into Venom for wall carry
 

loogie

Noob
GL:
Gatling Gun does mess up trait pretty bad however the move does not go full screen. I found that traiting from this safe distance and burn meter for MB Supernova while he is spamming Gatling Gun. Now since trait makes supernova relatively safe it's great gimmick to get in, but that's all it is just a gimmick. The real thing is for to make the GL worried that you're going to do it again so you can try a MB Venom instead.
the MB version of the gattling gun covers 90% of the screen ... even full screen I think. i tried activating trait from full screen and GL would go into MB gattling gun. i'm pretty sure he was catching me with it.
i can't even get Supernova to come out, and if GL has meter he will MB B3 as you land (if not having trait or if the trait wears off by the time you land from the sky)
 

Lumpymoomilk

Online Punching Bag
Anyone
I'd like to hear what you guys have to say about Nightwing!
Personally I find anyone who can do a lot of fast hits vs Doomsday can be problematic, because you can't just mb all day everyday to get through them and they usually end up winning trades because most of DD's moves are somewhat slow but have great range., even with his trait because you are constantly being somewhat stunned against really fast hits. I find the flash a real pain in the ass too sometimes.
 

Bouncepogo

UWOTM8
I find that against nightwing you gotta be careful about pushing too many buttons, block well and wait for them to leave an opening (grabs can be good if they are try to bait you out - nightwing will be close and DDs range is so good). Sometimes i just cut my losses, pushblock and try to reset the game to neutral and apply my own pressure.

Also nightwings staff jump in attacks are a real pain, i've not been in the lab, but from online play they are very hard to react to and counter.
 
I haven't fought any Ravens as Doomsday but I think it's safe to assume that you should do the usual for zoners and lame it out until you get his trait(if you don't have it) tackle through her bullshit. Once you're in make sure she doesn't get out, lock that ass down and push her the nearest corner and try to 50/50 her. His down, forward + 2 special move(the ground slam) is great in the corner as it hits twice, once as an overhead and again as a low.
That works on most Zoners, just be wary of gl using trait cancel ex gatlin. He really shuts down doomsday pretty hard, combined with supernova being punished by ex b3.
 

derryk

mister science brain
shout-outs to the first post in this tread with the sick pictures of every character and no info in the spoilers lol.

can i get some m/u info on catwoman?

who is DD's best / worst matchup?
 
Shazam's wake up teleport buff makes him legitimately tough for Doomsday now.

The weird thing is that if you do d1, ES on wake up, and he teleports through the d1, the ES will still activate, as if the d1 hit something, even though it totally whiffed through the teleport.

Knowing when to d1 without buffering it into ES is critical in this match up.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Ok, after some research, DD's possible bad MU's atm are imo: Superman (6-4), Batman (6-4), Nightwing (6-4), BA (6-4). Dunno about Aquaman yet, i need to play against Cimmerian's Aquaman to see whats up there. So in total, 4 bad MU's for DD atm, 5 if Aquaman is counted amongst them. Some of those COULD be even though (Superman and Batman for example), if the DD player plays smart. Especially the Superman MU, after the nerfs Superman got, seems much more easier to win. In general i m holding up really well against Superman and Batman, but NW's and BA's zoning and frame traps got me really curious as to why those characters projectiles havent been nerfed yet. I mean, with BA, having full screen 19% dmg low projectile with +9f (?) on block is stupendus at best. And dont even get me started about his chip dmg with his trait up close, his frame traps up close, his spacing control which covers the ENTIRE screen and the fact that all of his special moves are safe on block. His throw, if done perfectly, deals 23% dmg with trait, which is ridiculous. Same applies with NW's staff stance. Once he enters staff stance, DD cant pretty much even touch him. Also his trait doesnt help him at all in the particular MU. GGA Jeremiah, Qwark28.

Post edited.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Ok, after some research, DD's possible bad MU's atm are imo: Superman (6-4), Batman (6-4), Nightwing (6-4), BA (6-4). Dunno about Aquaman yet, i need to play against Cimmerian's Aquaman to see whats up there. So in total, 4 bad MU's for DD atm, 5 if Aquaman is counted amongst them. Some of those COULD be even though (Superman and Batman for example), if the DD player plays smart. Especially the Superman MU, after the nerfs Superman got, seems much more easier to win. In general i m holding up really well against Superman and Batman, but NW's and BA's zoning and frame traps got me really curious as to why those characters projectiles havent been nerfed yet. I mean, with BA, having full screen 19% dmg low projectile with +9f (?) on block is stupendus at best. And dont even get me started about his chip dmg with his trait up close, his frame traps up close, his spacing control which covers the ENTIRE screen and the fact that all of his special moves are safe on block. His throw, if done perfectly, deals 23% dmg with trait, which is ridiculous. Same applies with NW's staff stance. Once he enters staff stance, DD cant pretty much even touch him. Also his trait doesnt help him at all in the particular MU. GGA Jeremiah, Qwark28.

Post edited.
until someone with good execution picks up black adam you havent seen shit of what he can really do.

i dont wanna go on about how balanced BA is but i think doomsday could go even with him.

nightwing is even, d1 can be dealt with and his punishes are mediocre when it comes to backdashes in staff stance

pezis doomsday, den boris na thes nerfs gia otidipote bori na se kani na exis slight disadvantage...
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
until someone with good execution picks up black adam you havent seen shit of what he can really do.

i dont wanna go on about how balanced BA is but i think doomsday could go even with him.

nightwing is even, d1 can be dealt with and his punishes are mediocre when it comes to backdashes in staff stance

pezis doomsday, den boris na thes nerfs gia otidipote bori na se kani na exis slight disadvantage...

So wait, let me get this straight... You are saying that BA is BALANCED compared to the majority of the cast ?! NW - DD is not even, because of the range of his attacks when in staff stance. And the reason he has mediocre combo damage in his staff stance is because everything he does is +f on block and has incredible range... Take that into account as well. Pick up DD and play vs a GOOD NW and you ll see what i mean. Same applies for DD vs BA as well. The reason i m saying these things is because these two particular characters dont affect only DD, but the entire cast as well. If you believe that BA and NW are balanced then you really need to google what balance in fg's really mean...

( Paizeis BA, de mporeis na les oti o xaraktiras sou einai mia xara kai de thelei nerfs. H mlkia pou ekanes panta, akoma kai sto MK9, einai oti evlepes panta ta pragmata apo ti diki sou tin pleura kai gia auto den exeis apopsi gia tpt. Kai o DD den exei elpida an o BA paiksei lame. )
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
So wait, let me get this straight... You are saying that BA is BALANCED compared to the majority of the cast ?! NW - DD is not even, because of the range of his attacks when in staff stance. And the reason he has mediocre combo damage in his staff stance is because everything he does is +f on block and has incredible range... Take that into account as well. Pick up DD and play vs a GOOD NW and you ll see what i mean. Same applies for DD vs BA as well. The reason i m saying these things is because these two particular characters dont affect only DD, but the entire cast as well. If you believe that BA and NW are balanced then you really need to google what balance in fg's really mean...

( Paizeis BA, de mporeis na les oti o xaraktiras sou einai mia xara kai de thelei nerfs. H mlkia pou ekanes panta, akoma kai sto MK9, einai oti evlepes panta ta pragmata apo ti diki sou tin pleura kai gia auto den exeis apopsi gia tpt. Kai o DD den exei elpida an o BA paiksei lame. )
So you're telling me you're gonna decide a matchup number based on being eliminated by a NW when you yourself said you've only played against NW 3 times? How about when I tell you DD does just fine when I've played the same NW for hours upon hours?

BA will be perfectly handled when people learn to whiff punish or jump lightning cage on wakeup and realise he needs meter to do all that "overpowered" shit.

Compared to the majority of the cast? No. Compared to the top 10? Fuck yes.

There are A LOT of characters that go even with BA. Doomsday might be one of them.

You just bought your main a one way ticket to being a practice mode dummy.

(den me niazi ti lei kanenas sto dojo, fai de fai nerf, ego me black adam tha nikao.)
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
So you're telling me you're gonna decide a matchup number based on being eliminated by a NW when you yourself said you've only played against NW 3 times? How about when I tell you DD does just fine when I've played the same NW for hours upon hours?

BA will be perfectly handled when people learn to whiff punish or jump lightning cage on wakeup and realise he needs meter to do all that "overpowered" shit.

Compared to the majority of the cast? No. Compared to the top 10? Fuck yes.

There are A LOT of characters that go even with BA. Doomsday might be one of them.

(den me niazi ti lei kanenas sto dojo, fai de fai nerf, ego me black adam tha nikao.)
BA shits meter for breakfast. Also you realize that lighting cage also has AA properties yes ? You really should stop and listen sometimes seriously. How are you going to whiff punish BA, when everything he does is safe or +f on block, when the hit box of his specials is ridiculous and not consistent, his spacing is, at the moment, the best in the game and when he has a fucking low projectile which deals 19% dmg on hit, 6% dmg on block, has a phantom hit box and builds a hell of a meter ? Dont give me all that "he needs meter" bullshit cause you know that ain't true. You played NW - DD online or offline ? Cause DD is S+ tier online. And i wasn't eliminated by a NW player, i was eliminated by a Sinestro player. Did you see me say anything about that ? No, because it was a GOOD match to watch, not a match when i was forced to block everything the opponent was throwing at me because NRS couldnt tweek these two stupid characters. It is different you see. The majority of the cast has stupid things, but NW and BA outweigh them all. I also said in my first post POSSIBLE bad MU's. But as always you missed that part. I stated my facts for the DD - NW based on what i saw today and it wasnt only against me. NW pretty much destroys the entire cast on the highest level.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
BA shits meter for breakfast. Also you realize that lighting cage also has AA properties yes ? You really should stop and listen sometimes seriously. How are you going to whiff punish BA, when everything he does is safe or +f on block, when the hit box of his specials is ridiculous and not consistent, his spacing is, at the moment, the best in the game and when he has a fucking low projectile which deals 19% dmg on hit, 6% dmg on block, has a phantom hit box and builds a hell of a meter ? Dont give me all that "he needs meter" bullshit cause you know that ain't true. You played NW - DD online or offline ? Cause DD is S+ tier online. And i wasn't eliminated by a NW player, i was eliminated by a Sinestro player. Did you see me say anything about that ? No, because it was a GOOD match to watch, not a match when i was forced to block everything the opponent was throwing at me because NRS couldnt tweek these two stupid characters. It is different you see. The majority of the cast has stupid things, but NW and BA outweigh them all. I also said in my first post POSSIBLE bad MU's. But as always you missed that part. I stated my facts for the DD - NW based on what i saw today and it wasnt only against me. NW pretty much destroys the entire cast on the highest level.
I did read your post and I did reply. I don't think NW should even be considered as a bad matchup for DD. I know how NW works and I know his tools because I've played and watched several NWs. He's annoying and he's stupid if you don't know how to deal with his shit. DD has the tools to beat him just fine.

I'm not gonna bother trying to reason anymore because you're just gonna ignore everything I say, BA is beatable. You think he's stupid? Yes, he is. OP? No.

Lightning cage has enough of an AA hitbox to catch random derps who don't respect wakeups and just jump on knockdown. The hitbox is pretty small and pretty beatable. Adam can be pressured on wakeup just fine.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
I did read your post and I did reply. I don't think NW should even be considered as a bad matchup for DD. I know how NW works and I know his tools because I've played and watched several NWs. He's annoying and he's stupid if you don't know how to deal with his shit. DD has the tools to beat him just fine.


I'm not gonna bother trying to reason anymore because you're just gonna ignore everything I say, BA is beatable. You think he's stupid? Yes, he is. OP? No.
I m not ignoring what you are saying, i m just countering it, and you are annoyed by it. Simple as that.

Lightning cage has enough of an AA hitbox to catch random derps who don't respect wakeups and just jump on knockdown. The hitbox is pretty small and pretty beatable. Adam can be pressured on wakeup just fine.
Lighting cage has enough of an AA hitbox to catch cross-ups. Corrected you there. You said yourself that his lighting cage has full invincibility frames, so how can BA be pressured on wakeup ?? You dont make sense, or you just dont know what you are talking about...
Name them. Also you havent played any NW's with DD offline. So no, you dont know what you are talking about on this subject.
I m not ignoring what you are saying, i m just countering it, and you are annoyed by it. Simple as that.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Lighting cage has enough of an AA hitbox to catch cross-ups. Corrected you there. You said yourself that his lighting cage has full invincibility frames, so how can BA be pressured on wakeup ?? You dont make sense, or you just dont know what you are talking about...
Name them. Also you havent played any NW's with DD offline. So no, you dont know what you are talking about on this subject.
I m not ignoring what you are saying, i m just countering it, and you are annoyed by it. Simple as that.
I play black adam. I know under which conditions it AAs. It has 54 recovery frames on whiff. A well timed jump beats both the cage and a backdash. Doomsday in particular will force black adam to respect venom on wakeup when he has meter.

maybe you should pick up black adam and i doomsday so that you can see just how broken and op this character is.