Debunking Some Myths About Patching -- Looking at SF4 Ultra

[xWEBSx]

Yep pretty much. Even if another update was done to MvC it is clearly their B game to SF being the A game. NRS "could" do this, but I doubt they ever would.

DLC is gonna total $30 + whatever else comes out after. It would work better in Capcom's updated games imo.

MK vs DC- while not the most popular game, it was uncharted waters for NRS...
Now with the success of IGAU, and resurgence of MK, do you see another cross- over down the line..?
And IF successful-
do you see NRS sticking to that cross over title from here out?

 

[xWEBSx]

but they really dont. i cant think of a single developer than can play or even understand their game on the level of their best players. just saying "let them get around it" is difficult to them because for all they know their isn't a way around it and they're just throwing players to the wolves.

I see what you mean, and I can agree with it. I must say, It makes me happy to see dev's now bringing in top players to help in production of the game, most recent example I can think of is Bungie and upcoming Halo 5. I hope this is a trend that sticks, and benefits us all in the long run.

 

[SaltShaker]

The game is kept alive by players. Games that haven't had a patch or update ever were still being played (Marvel 2, Smash) and games that get frequent updates aren't getting high numbers or even making main tournaments (Killer Instinct, Skullgirls). If people want to play the game it doesn't matter how many or few patches it gets, people just play it. All communities just hop on the next shiny thing, look at anime, I don't think Injustice getting a patch TODAY would have many more people playing it than are or keep them playing when MKX is out.

That's what DLC is for and it doesn't lock a patch behind it. The only way to get SF patches is to pay for them for SFIV, it's not the same. The NRS patches and balance are always free and the character, skins, and stages are there if you want to pay for them.

There is no proof of this. Let's look at a recent tournament and their pre-reg numbers: Final Round.

Ultra Street Fighter 4 = 343 = Recent Patch/update
UMVC3 = 189 = No update in 3+ years
GG Xrd = 186 = New-ish game
TTT2 = 139 = No Update in 2+ years (AFAIK)
Smash U = 122 = New-ish game
Under Night= 69 = New-ish game (for US)
KI = 55 = Frequent Updates
Smash Melee= 50 = No Update in 10+ years
DOA =42 = Recent Update
Soul Cal= 42 = No Update in 2+ years
Injustice = 24 = No update in 1+ year
Kof = 16 = No update in 2+ years


It's truly just a mixed bag.

I doubt Injustice would be revived because MKX is around the corner. But part of that is because the way people saw the game. Half its players were waiting for MKX a year ago.

Say UMvC right. If they got a "Super Ultimate" update right now for $30 with some new chars and stages the gane would instantly get more attention even after all this time. But that's what they do with SF. The players keep the game alive yea, but new products like new characters brings in more interest.

I agree a lot of that is debatable though. My main point though is this. If we're gonna pay $30-$40 minimum on DLC, within a year and then no more patches forever, I rather they throw in a patch that fixes bs not long after release and then play the game out for a year+ until a $30-40 update like SF does.

 

[Compbros]

I doubt Injustice would be revived because MKX is around the corner. But part of that is because the way people saw the game. Half its players were waiting for MKX a year ago.

Say UMvC right. If they got a "Super Ultimate" update right now for $30 with some new chars and stages the gane would instantly get more attention even after all this time. But that's what they do with SF. The players keep the game alive yea, but new products like new characters brings in more interest.

I agree a lot of that is debatable though. My main point though is this. If we're gonna pay $30-$40 minimum on DLC, within a year and then no more patches forever, I rather they throw in a patch that fixes bs not long after release and then play the game out for year until a $30-40 update like SF does.

Then what does a patch do? What happens if, even with patches, people just start anticipating IGAU2? You yourself just said it wouldn't be revived because MKX is coming out, so how does a patch keep that from happening? It's because people don't want to play IGAU anymore and do want to play MKX. A patch wouldn't save or change that, it ultimately comes down to the people.

Of course, an update always shines a light on a game. Skullgirls got a renewed interest after Encore was released, DoA has renewed interest with Last Round. But that doesn't mean the games sustain interest or keep players. Again, K.I. gets frequent updates, characters, stages, and more and, at TFC or NEC or some recent tournament, it got less entrants than MK9. M.K.9.

They still do fix true BS like the Batgirl infinite, Sinestro pushblock, and Harley B3 being clashable. They just didn't do anything else with balance. Regardless, you are not forced to pay 30-40 to get the most recent version of the game, it is 100 percent optional. Super, AE, and Ultra you must pay for those versions or you don't get the update. Meaning, if you're a competitive player, it renders your current disk/download useless as you have an out of date version unless you shell out more money.

 

[SaltShaker]

Then what does a patch do? What happens if, even with patches, people just start anticipating IGAU2? You yourself just said it wouldn't be revived because MKX is coming out, so how does a patch keep that from happening? It's because people don't want to play IGAU anymore and do want to play MKX. A patch wouldn't save or change that, it ultimately comes down to the people.

Of course, an update always shines a light on a game. Skullgirls got a renewed interest after Encore was released, DoA has renewed interest with Last Round. But that doesn't mean the games sustain interest or keep players. Again, K.I. gets frequent updates, characters, stages, and more and, at TFC or NEC or some recent tournament, it got less entrants than MK9. M.K.9.

They still do fix true BS like the Batgirl infinite, Sinestro pushblock, and Harley B3 being clashable. They just didn't do anything else with balance. Regardless, you are not forced to pay 30-40 to get the most recent version of the game, it is 100 percent optional. Super, AE, and Ultra you must pay for those versions or you don't get the update. Meaning, if you're a competitive player, it renders your current disk/download useless as you have an out of date version unless you shell out more money.

I have to watch this Wrestlemania, but I'll get back to you on this later.

Good topic.

 

[Compbros]

I have to watch this Wrestlemania, but I'll get back to you on this later.

Good topic.

LMAO, exactly the same here.

 

[LockM]

I love USFIV, and their patching methods are mostly done well, unfortunately it has one major downside, it splits communities. Capcom adds a few characters, a few "new" stages, does some balance changes, maybe add a new mechanic or 2 and make it a paid update for 15 bucks. Now the thing is the people who updated their game cannot play against the people from the previous version who weren't willing to pay for the update. The playerpool gets increasingly smaller and smaller. Same happens to Arcsys games.

Balance changes should be universal and free, stages, character, costumes should be paid. This keeps the game fresh for everyone and the playerpool doesn't become smaller and smaller.

Balance patches should be spaced 6 months to 1 year. If something is "broken" or needs to be addressed immediately, that is fine, things like infinites or anything that is borderline gamebreaking, something the developer did not intend.

DLC characters will be sold once the game is still newish as DLC sells best early on, so as a result balance patches might also come everytime a new character pack has been released.

All in all i prefer if the game would be given some time to breath before making changes before certains thing might be percieved as overpowered.

 

[xWEBSx]

I love USFIV, and their patching methods are mostly done well, unfortunately it has one major downside, it splits communities. Capcom adds a few characters, a few "new" stages, does some balance changes, maybe add a new mechanic or 2 and make it a paid update for 15 bucks. Now the thing is the people who updated their game cannot play against the people from the previous version who weren't willing to pay for the update. The playerpool gets increasingly smaller and smaller. Same happens to Arcsys games.

Balance changes should be universal and free, stages, character, costumes should be paid. This keeps the game fresh for everyone and the playerpool doesn't become smaller and smaller.

Balance patches should be spaced 6 months to 1 year. If something is "broken" or needs to be addressed immediately, that is fine, things like infinites or anything that is borderline gamebreaking, something the developer did not intend.

DLC characters will be sold once the game is still newish as DLC sells best early on, so as a result balance patches might also come everytime a new character pack has been released.

All in all i prefer if the game would be given some time to breath before making changes before certains thing might be percieved as overpowered.

Well said

 

[Compbros]

Balance changes should be universal and free, stages, character, costumes should be paid. This keeps the game fresh for everyone and the playerpool doesn't become smaller and smaller.

Balance patches should be spaced 6 months to 1 year. If something is "broken" or needs to be addressed immediately, that is fine, things like infinites or anything that is borderline gamebreaking, something the developer did not intend.

DLC characters will be sold once the game is still newish as DLC sells best early on, so as a result balance patches might also come everytime a new character pack has been released.

All in all i prefer if the game would be given some time to breath before making changes before certains thing might be percieved as overpowered.

Isn't this exactly what they did with Injustice?

 

[LockM]

Isn't this exactly what they did with Injustice?

If that was the case, then great. I didn't play the game longer than a month so i wouldn't know.

 

[xWEBSx]

Isn't this exactly what they did with Injustice?

I believe that falls into line with what he was saying with his OP..
Injustice as a community never became divided amongst themselves..
Sure people move on, lose interest, etc.. But it was never 50% playing IGAU A, and 50% playing IGAU B, whereas that is the exact opposite of how SF has been running with umteen iterations.

 

[Compbros]

If that was the case, then great. I didn't play the game longer than a month so i wouldn't know.

They had small-moderate updates throughout the first few months then took a month or two off and released the big patch 6 months later.

 

[Compbros]

Juggs nailed it. NRS has made an effort, but the games need time to breathe.

Games needing time to breathe is such a blanket, nonsensical statement. What is "breathe"? Absolutely no patching besides infinites/game breaking bugs for months? You can be left with Day 1 Superman/Black Adam. Minor-moderate patching for months? That's what NRS does. To think that a game must be given time so great balance can be done is nonsense. Street Fighter AE came out 2~ years after Street Fighter IV and it was one of the most unbalanced versions of the game. Ultra was also a mess until they did quick patching to hammer some balancing issues out and that game came out 5 years after the first SFIV meaning they had 5 YEARS OF DATA to pour through and it was still messed up.

Then you have something like Street Fighter x Tekken which didn't get a big balance patch for a year and the game suffered and eventually died because everyone was sick of easy jab pressure and the same tag combos over and over that lead to big damage. By the time the patch came out most of the community was done with the game and barely gave it another chance. Oh, also they had a patch in the meantime that broke the game. If Rolento's dagger hit a projectile it would crash the game. It took them weeks to get a fix out because they also wanted to balance things with the next patch instead of trying to fix whatever was wrong with that.

So, we have a game that had five years of data to use and still can't get great balance while another game waited for it's big patch and died because of it (along with other things). A game will never be perfectly balanced, some things that look strong get nerfed before they get a chance to be figured out whereas other things are just stupidly strong and need fixing asap. To simply wait for the sake of breathing, marinating, or whatever other phrase people want to use because it'll make the game more balanced.....well, there's just no proof of that.

 

[Duck Nation]

I see your point to an extent, but you can't just predict where everything is going to fall. Constant support forever is the ideal world setup, but it's not practical. If I could just set the dream scenario, I'd go for a series of staged patches with increasing time inbetween them - fix smaller, more immediate issues first, and try to save more dramatic stuff for later. There are just as many examples of things going wrong from changes made early and with inadequate understanding as going right in a game. Some things really just do need time to rise to the top.

 

[ando1184]

I encourage patches if it's necessary, like the examples you gave. This type of care towards the game gives it renewed life when a patch is released. I hope since MK is NRS' baby, that they will continue to patch mkx even years down the line. Mk9 and injustice still need patches due to characters and system flaws. So I hope they don't abandon mkx like the previous titles. I guess we will see after the last dlc drops.

 

[Barrogh]

I think we just have to be careful when clammering for patches.

Dominant strategies in the first few weeks don't equate to broken or in need of a patch, in most cases everybody needs to adapt or figure things out.

Knee jerk buffs/nerfs can turn characters into monsters or cripples...let's try and avoid that this time around and instead work together to provide solutions to those situations instead

And this is why this point in the OP is important:

Also, Capcom is willing to take back some changes they've made in previous patches and correct some of their own mistakes.