Match-up Discussion Cyber Sub-Zero Matchup Discussion Thread

[xenogorgeous]

KL x CSZ is one of the most intriguing and curious match I like to think about, IMO

I think that CSZ should rely in his ice parry against KL dive kick and teleport, and bait his spin with ice bombs and maybe air teleport ...... once you make KL spin and you are not in his trajetory target range, use ice ball.

Just theories above, just in case .....

 

[Alice]

Yeah, pretty bad matchup for sure. Your wakeups are nullified mostly by a ground hat, the divekick of Lao is just dominates CSZ-s, etc...
Mostly I go defensive vs Lao and zoning. What seemed to work just fine is bombs and bait the teleport. From there parry, ex-parry or simple good timed uppercuts. Against dive kick parry, not much else. If you manage to get close to him there are good strings like wildcard, teleport then 33-ex freeze, etc works some times but against a spin maniac just don't do that.
Too bad but the best advice in this case is to pick up someone else, Cyrax for example. But it is managable with CSZ too, it's just harder then it should be.

 

[Alice]

Okay, 3 ppl wrote the same in instant, I think it's decided whats up

 

[Flagg]

I just thought, if you rush down a KL, bait his spin and block, do you have enough time to throw a bomb and then either U4 or F221 him? Even if he blocks, wont the attacks stagger him into the bomb? I guess 11 iceblast is a hell of a lot easier?

 

[Alice]

I just thought, if you rush down a KL, bait his spin and block, do you have enough time to throw a bomb and then either U4 or F221 him? Even if he blocks, wont the attacks stagger him into the bomb? I guess 11 iceblast is a hell of a lot easier?

Well, if you are fast enough the 11, ice will do the trick, so the bomb, f4 for me. On block it will carry Lao to the bomb.
Or the mid bomb, 2,2,21 will lead to the bomb, giving you the option that the 21 will launch Lao with the bomb and then dash 3,4 divekick gives you a 31%.
Here 1,1 is your best chance to dish some damage out, if you are fast the other two works as well, but stability and reliabilty always better.

Lately for some reason I did not found Laos so hard to beat, I was able to overwhelm a few decent players and constantly deny their attacks.
Taking the spins push back away from him helps a lot.

 

[Alice]

What's with the Kenshi matcup? Seriously I found no way to get close to him, pretty low level players beat the crap out of me with Kenshi. : (
I can't zone them, I can't get close because of those clones or what are those things, my air advantage is denied fully, and even if I manage to get into the face of Kenshi there is not much I can do because of the reach of his sword. Maybe a slide wich is fast enough but honestly it won't happen 15 times in a round.
Geting in with a teleport won't work, since if a Kenshi player see that he starts a combo and I'm fucked.
Honestly, I'm lost...any idea?

 

[Kindred]

CSZ is my secondary and for the life of me, I cant beat Noob.

I dunno if its because I lack the patience but I feel Im at a complete disadvantage since I Need to get close to do damage and he is just so good at preventing that.

My bombs take so much time to come out that he has enough time to go get an orange juice,my iceballs give him enough time to watch an episode of House and the lack of armor gets it hard to get in close as well. Cross jumps are useless since the upshadow has, what seems like, a 180 degree coverage. Teleporting makes me eat and upshadow since his command to enter a running shadow get fixed up by negative edge.

I heard that this is CSZ's favor but i dunno.
Any tips, strats are appreciated.

 

[NkdSingularity]

You have to dash block to get in, when your close but just outside of upshadow range and you think they're going to upshadow you can iceball to freeze-full combo, but most good noobs only upshadow on reaction to the jump, i'm not sure if slide goes under upshadow but it probably does.

For me though this match up seems really tough for CSZ.

 

[NkdSingularity]

On second thought, the divekick should be really strong in this MU, from full screen you can forward jump over shadows and far divekick to punish.

 

[Treadmill]

Yeah dive kick is a killer to noob. I'll just jump without dive kick to try and bait them into throwing up knee then punish with a fast dive kick/slide/ex freeze.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

 

[Kindred]

Thanks for the replies. so i guess i just have to note distances.
EX iceball seems to be the only good thing since the normal version is so slow he pretty much has enough time to recover.

Slide gets hit by upshadow btw

 

[NYCj360]

Empty jump is noobs worst nightmare. IF the noob player reads the empty jump and throws a shadow tackle, you can still dive kick on reaction or land and block, whiff a dive kick to get close and start pressure. If the noob player is up shadow happy than start using those ice balls at random. Noob doesnt have any way to land good damage from afar so taking a shadow tackle isnt a bad trade for an attempt. overall noob has to guess what your going to do first and pre emptively attack CSZ, csz can react to almost everything noob has and punish hard at that

 

[Kindred]

wow Ive been doing so many things wrong lol
Thanks for the replies

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Empty jumps FTW

ice trades

dash block

dive kick shadows on reaction

put noob where he hates life, the corner.

if i were Noob id be frightened of csz

 

[Altaire]

Cyber Sub beats Noob 6-4. I don't even understand why you're trying to throw bombs in this matchup, or why you're trying to throw ice balls at all. They should be used sparingly, if ever.

Every time you jump, Noob has to guess between whether or not you're going to divekick. If he throws a tackle, a far divekick will beat it. If he tries to upshadow in anticipation of a far divekick, you can whiff a close divekick and slide. After a slide knockdown, you can freely cross him up, and as long as you jump soon enough, his upshadow can't reach you.

I've honestly never had trouble with that matchup. Flawedzilla is the only Noob player who's given my Cyber Sub trouble, and I was still able to deal with that.

 

[RampaginDragon]

Empty jumps FTW

ice trades

dash block

dive kick shadows on reaction

put noob where he hates life, the corner.

if i were Noob id be frightened of csz

This. Do this, and wins will come.

 

[GuamoKun]

What's with the Kenshi matcup? Seriously I found no way to get close to him, pretty low level players beat the crap out of me with Kenshi. : (
I can't zone them, I can't get close because of those clones or what are those things, my air advantage is denied fully, and even if I manage to get into the face of Kenshi there is not much I can do because of the reach of his sword. Maybe a slide wich is fast enough but honestly it won't happen 15 times in a round.
Geting in with a teleport won't work, since if a Kenshi player see that he starts a combo and I'm fucked.
Honestly, I'm lost...any idea?

Try using the bombs to force a reaction from Kenshi and get in with divekicks while he is busy worrying about the bombs. Thats all I can think of atm.

...and Baraka...

...is he a counterpick or something?

 

[NYCj360]

Bombs suck In this match up lol. He can flurry you to death before you can pop out a bomb. Best thing to me really is whiffing dive kicks. And if you jump only jump forward to make the drop swords whiff. Kenshi has a superior s1 anti air so jump ins are hard against a good kenshi. He's like a more fucked up noob, and with armor. At the end its the same, get to jump in distance and punish accordingly. The hardest part is getting to the jump in distance

Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio using Tapatalk

 

[Squeaker101]

What do you guys think about the Liu Kang MU? I remember the guide book saying it was Liu's best MU. But the guide book was crap. Parry takes away Dive Kick, Flying Kick on reaction to bombs. Iceball full screen away I guess, but I don't think it'll do much.
Thoughts?

 

[VIDA]

And there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING THAT SHE CAN DO ON WAKE UP TO ANY CHAR UP CLOSE.

*fixed

 

[flet]

i researched that b3 - force ur opponent to stand up, so when u hit him by slide, u can dash b3, 21 pressure if b3 hits, or even b3~Icebeam(its hitcomfirmable), on block b3 -2 so u dont risk much. Opponent need to block it, or do fast wake up, faster than ur dash~b3.
What u think about it?

 

[Alice]

With all the new tech revealed lately to CSZ shouldn't the list change a bit?
Personally I doubled my damage/second with them.

 

[RiBBz22]

Can the CSZ players discuss what they think about the Smoke match? I am curious what the community's take is on it.

 

[_xFriction]

Smokes pokes (lolz) blows up CSZ's pressure. Not much for options against smoke... no surprise iceballs (slow as fuck) don't whiff a slide or the 4 on f1 4 on combo enders... teleport? ha ha what was I thinking? But I still love the blue bot.

 

[Flagg]

The more I use him, the better I think CSZ is.

Yes he does have some issues, but I think CSZ is very much a thinking mans character. It infuriates me when people say he is pure 100% rush down when that's not true. He does have good rush down, but you have to pick and choose when to rush. It's like his ice ball, pick and choose. You can't spam with CSZ and that's probably a good thing, his bombs are fantastic and create great little situations. CSZ greatest strength is dictating the match. That can be true of most characters I suppose, but CSZ creates situations.

He is one of those characters that one careless buff could propel him through the roof. I personally think the best buff he could get is making his teleport the same start up/duration frames as Cyrax. That's all I think he needs to be honest.

I also think the match up with SZ and Smoke is 5:5 both match ups, despite what others may say. I also think he is quite even with Cyrax and Sektor, which is strange as they seem to fair better against his really hard match ups.

CSZ really struggles against most characters with an instant air fire ball and I still find Jax a problem. Jax is harder to take on than Cage or Sonya imo.