Coronavirus (Covid-19) Discussion

[Living Corpse]

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/14/834109166/where-did-the-coronavirus-originate-virus-hunters-find-genetic-clues-in-bats

I blame Batman. He's the obvious link.

"This health crisis must serve as a wake-up call for the need to end unsustainable use of endangered animals and their parts, as exotic pets, for food consumption and for their perceived medicinal value."

This was my favorite part. Perceived medicinal value, how ironic. Morons....

Bats immune systems are actually being studied to make us have stronger immune systems. While bats carry diseases they rarely get sick from them. The only reason we call them diseased is because they carry virus and microbes that effect us. You wouldn't call a person diseased if they carry microbes that don't harm us but harm other lifeforms. A forest was devastated by a man just walking in because the fungus on his shoes was not native.

It's a perspective thing, a lot of people don't care about something or think about it till it effects them. Right now environmentalists are having a hard time protecting vampire bats cause while other bats spread seeds in their poop, pollinate flowers, or even prevent some diseases by eating bugs that carry them, vampire bats don't do anything we benefit from, they just drink blood. Which is a pretty selfish way to look at things, they aren't trying to spread rabies or take over the world, they just want to live like us. Some will even share blood with another starving vampire bat, they look out for each other.

 

[Juxtapose]

As a non-American and an outsider looking in, I truly do not understand the country's obsession with firearms. The desire to own one to feel safe and the feeling one needs a gun for self defence is just mind boggling to me.

I know this view is shared by many here. Not ripping on anyone from the US, simply expressing my perspective and confusion about the whole thing.

 

[Anarchist_Gib]

As a non-American and an outsider looking in, I truly do not understand the country's obsession with firearms. The desire to own one to feel safe and the feeling one needs a gun for self defence is just mind boggling to me.

I know this view is shared by many here. Not ripping on anyone from the US, simply expressing my perspective and confusion about the whole thing.

It's certainly understandable. That's part of the reason I'm such a stickler for making sure the numbers of defensive uses of firearms are put out there in any discussion involving them, as media sensationalism and political agendas tend to overshadow the facts behind the matter. The fact that the 2013 study ordered by the CDC gets so little mention is illustrative of this. I am personally of the belief that the numbers are even better than the surveys would indicate in regards to DGU instances. When I was selling firearms I lived in an area where gun violence is particularly high, yet for the literal thousands upon thousands of transactions I only had a handful of instances of interactions with PD and ATF representatives annually(occurring anytime a theft of a firearm or any violent crime involving one of my stock happened).

 

[Ck AeroVoid]

As a non-American and an outsider looking in, I truly do not understand the country's obsession with firearms. The desire to own one to feel safe and the feeling one needs a gun for self defence is just mind boggling to me.

I know this view is shared by many here. Not ripping on anyone from the US, simply expressing my perspective and confusion about the whole thing.

I Am MURICAN (that was very cringy) and I I wish people can learn things like karate/KUNG fu ect instead of guns

 

[Anarchist_Gib]

I Am MURICAN (that was very cringy) and I I wish people can learn things like karate/KUNG fu ect instead of guns

Or all the above

 

[Ram]

I Am MURICAN (that was very cringy) and I I wish people can learn things like MORTAL KOMBAT instead of guns

ftfy

 

[M2Dave]

As a non-American and an outsider looking in, I truly do not understand the country's obsession with firearms. The desire to own one to feel safe and the feeling one needs a gun for self defence is just mind boggling to me.

The second amendment of the U.S. constitution gives Americans "the right... to keep and bear arms" which "shall not be infringed". Of course, this amendment was ratified more than 200 years ago when semi-automatic weapons did not exist.

I personally take no issue with law-abiding Americans purchasing firearms for hunting and/or self-defense. What I despise is the gun lobby like the NRA who are bribing both democrats and republicans to loosen gun laws around the country. You almost always want to follow the dollar in American politics.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Bats immune systems are actually being studied to make us have stronger immune systems. While bats carry diseases they rarely get sick from them. The only reason we call them diseased is because they carry virus and microbes that effect us. You wouldn't call a person diseased if they carry microbes that don't harm us but harm other lifeforms. A forest was devastated by a man just walking in because the fungus on his shoes was not native.

It's a perspective thing, a lot of people don't care about something or think about it till it effects them. Right now environmentalists are having a hard time protecting vampire bats cause while other bats spread seeds in their poop, pollinate flowers, or even prevent some diseases by eating bugs that carry them, vampire bats don't do anything we benefit from, they just drink blood. Which is a pretty selfish way to look at things, they aren't trying to spread rabies or take over the world, they just want to live like us. Some will even share blood with another starving vampire bat, they look out for each other.

Riiiight...

My post was making fun of the "percieved medicinal value." I'm talking about not fuckin eating them, not saying we shouldn't study them for potential benifits.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

As a non-American and an outsider looking in, I truly do not understand the country's obsession with firearms. The desire to own one to feel safe and the feeling one needs a gun for self defence is just mind boggling to me.

I know this view is shared by many here. Not ripping on anyone from the US, simply expressing my perspective and confusion about the whole thing.

Not even gonna argue this but just offer some perspective. I dont like guns, I'll be dead serious. The desire to own one to feel safe is a real thing. I was dead set against guns, but man your feelings kinda stop mattering when you accept the reality that there are people out there with guns that want to kill you for no reason. I didnt think it could affect my small town, but then on two separate occasions, only being 20 mind you, I had the potential to be killed in gun related incidents. Being in the right place in the wrong situation and dumb luck is why I didnt die. I don't necessarily subscribe to the "only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun" mentality because it gets abused by fuckin weirdos.

I guess to sum it up there are so many unmarked guns out there alresdy here in America that if gun laws were strengthened it wouldn't even matter. So yeah, it's not about being obsessed it's about being responsible and having a healthy fear of people that want to kill you. I know I sound like an edgy Noob Saibot main but I am being serious and not hyperbolic. This is my last off topic post about guns, I just wanted to give you an American's POV. Most people aren't obsessed at all with firearms here. Most gun owners just want to protect themselves and their loved ones, people will do some drastic things to feel safe. Feeling safe is really the best you can do because if COVID is teaching usanything, your safety is never guaranteed. All you can do is make yourself and loved ones as secure feeling as possible.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Also I dont mean to speak for anyone here when I said an American's perspective. I'm not trying to act like I have any of the answers to an incredibly layered and complicated issue, just thought I'd explain my reasoning.

 

[Rip Torn]

What China is doing with these animals in the wet markets is irresponsible, inhumane and dangerous to every living species on this planet. Not to mention all the other humanitarian violations going on there daily. You simply can't defend their government for their actions and chalk it up to cultural differences. It's wrong and it needs to be acknowledged and eventually confronted diplomatically.

 

[AREZ God of War]

What China is doing with these animals in the wet markets is irresponsible, inhumane and dangerous to every living species on this planet. Not to mention all the other humanitarian violations going on there daily. You simply can't defend their government for their actions and chalk it up to cultural differences. It's wrong and it needs to be acknowledged and eventually confronted diplomatically.

AMEN.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

What China is doing with these animals in the wet markets is irresponsible, inhumane and dangerous to every living species on this planet. Not to mention all the other humanitarian violations going on there daily. You simply can't defend their government for their actions and chalk it up to cultural differences. It's wrong and it needs to be acknowledged and eventually confronted diplomatically.

Yessssiiirrrrr

 

[Anarchist_Gib]

The second amendment of the U.S. constitution gives Americans "the right... to keep and bear arms" which "shall not be infringed". Of course, this amendment was ratified more than 200 years ago when semi-automatic weapons did not exist.

I personally take no issue with law-abiding Americans purchasing firearms for hunting and/or self-defense. What I despise is the gun lobby like the NRA who are bribing both democrats and republicans to loosen gun laws around the country. You almost always want to follow the dollar in American politics.

I have been insured by the NRA for years, and I have absolutely no complaints with their service for what its worth. They do right by those who take advantage of their services. Coming from the other side of the sales counter, I greatly appreciated that there was a force dedicated to ensuring my business could prosper. I've had correspondence with brokers in heavily restrictive states that incur huge overhead in order to satisfy their state laws. All to end up with a higher level of gun violence than the national average. It's a slimy game, but given there's almost no examples of regulation going in the reverse direction when it manages to pass in any given area, I'm damn glad they're playing it.

To better relate this discussion to thread, the establishment I previously ran my sales through completely sold EVERY item in stock. EVERY SINGLE ONE due to supply panic(usually only happens when a Democrat is nominated). This was only possible because of Missouri's more lax system of purchase(no excessive wait period, ranges from same day to 5 days). That meant instead of those customers purchasing firearms from private parties without audit, they were ran under the FBI NICS system to ensure no criminal history, they benefit from manufacturer warranty if there are issues with the product, and most importantly the employees of the establishment have a financial cushion to weather the current situation. Contrast this with Armlist(like a local Craiglist for firearms) listings in more the restrictive states, where price gouging is rampant, no background checks are being run, and the buyer is at risk of bearing the costs of faulty product. This of course isn't to say that such private sales won't happen in a state like Missouri, but I'm reminded of an idea in sales where the most reliable way to combat bootleg products is to ensure the highest level of convenience and quality for your customers such that its worth it for them to incur the additional cost. The seemingly prevailing sentiment that there aren't adequate measures in place means that people advocate additional restrictions without mind to efficacy and economic impact on vendors. But those people have never run a NICS check, those people haven't seen a couple hundred bucks owed on child support prevent someone from purchasing a handgun. They also haven't ran booths at gun shows, where actual FFL holders are indeed obligated to run background checks.

 

[666 I HazeOner]

Seems like most people think that wetmarkets are only found in China. I have visited similar markets in Zanzibar, Indonesia, Laos, Thailand, Borneo, Morocco and Cambodia.
Most of these markets exist because there is no other (sanitary) option to sell meat and a lot of these poor communities have no other option than to eat bushmeat. Not everyone has the luxury of buying farmed meat or even a refrigirator/deep freeze, heck, in most of these places they don't even have a reliable electricity network.
China should know better by know, but as long as you do not educate your people and provide them with decent facilities to slaughter, pack and sell meat, these markets will stay.

 

[Living Corpse]

As a non-American and an outsider looking in, I truly do not understand the country's obsession with firearms. The desire to own one to feel safe and the feeling one needs a gun for self defence is just mind boggling to me.

I know this view is shared by many here. Not ripping on anyone from the US, simply expressing my perspective and confusion about the whole thing.

I think crimes escalate to violence more in the U.S. than some other countries and we have more violent angry people (both criminals and cops), though that could just be my perception and reality is different.

There's a lot of people who absolutely should not have weapons, I agree. But as with anything, responsible people don't make it on the news, it's the irresponsible ones. You'll hear about someone using a kitchen knife or sword to attempt to kill someone, you'll never hear about the countless people who have a kitchen knife in or a sword hanging on their wall who don't go around stabbing and slashing people.

I see nothing wrong with people wanting to own a gun if they choose but good lord do we need a better system to keep it out of the hands of those mentally unfit or repeat violent offenders of crimes.

I Am MURICAN (that was very cringy) and I I wish people can learn things like karate/KUNG fu ect instead of guns

Or all the above

Honestly I think people should do everything in their power to learn how to defend themselves in the worse case. If someone disarms you and you don't have a backup weapon and don't know how to fight unarmed you're kind of screwed. And surprsingly taking a gun apart really fast in a fight is not as movie bullshit as it sounds, after a few days of practice it's scary easy. For once action movies got something right.

Haven't fired a gun (yet) but did take a few classes in Brazilian Ju Jitsu. Honestly wish I hadn't stopped.

Riiiight...

My post was making fun of the "percieved medicinal value." I'm talking about not fuckin eating them, not saying we shouldn't study them for potential benifits.

Sorry, I misunderstood your post.

Not even gonna argue this but just offer some perspective. I dont like guns, I'll be dead serious. The desire to own one to feel safe is a real thing. I was dead set against guns, but man your feelings kinda stop mattering when you accept the reality that there are people out there with guns that want to kill you for no reason.

Right?

People think I'm crazy when I say strangers are dicks to me for no reason, asking what I did to piss them off. Like not everyone is trying to get revenge for being wronged or think they were wronged, some people are just messed up and like to wrong others.

What China is doing with these animals in the wet markets is irresponsible, inhumane and dangerous to every living species on this planet. Not to mention all the other humanitarian violations going on there daily. You simply can't defend their government for their actions and chalk it up to cultural differences. It's wrong and it needs to be acknowledged and eventually confronted diplomatically.

China just pretty much put a stop on Chinese players talking to others around the world via Animal Crossing.

Seems like most people think that wetmarkets are only found in China. I have visited similar markets in Zanzibar, Indonesia, Laos, Thailand, Borneo, Morocco and Cambodia.
Most of these markets exist because there is no other (sanitary) option to sell meat and a lot of these poor communities have no other option than to eat bushmeat. Not everyone has the luxury of buying farmed meat or even a refrigirator/deep freeze, heck, in most of these places they don't even have a reliable electricity network.
China should know better by know, but as long as you do not educate your people and provide them with decent facilities to slaughter, pack and sell meat, these markets will stay.

The optimist in me is hoping this pandemic will make some governments rethink how they do things or give their citizens the idea and courage to fight for change or at the very least make the world put more pressure on them to stop being so callous with human life. But the pessimist in me is expecting very little to change and if it does it'll be slow.

 

[Ck AeroVoid]

I think crimes escalate to violence more in the U.S. than some other countries and we have more violent angry people (both criminals and cops), though that could just be my perception and reality is different.

There's a lot of people who absolutely should not have weapons, I agree. But as with anything, responsible people don't make it on the news, it's the irresponsible ones. You'll hear about someone using a kitchen knife or sword to attempt to kill someone, you'll never hear about the countless people who have a kitchen knife in or a sword hanging on their wall who don't go around stabbing and slashing people.

I see nothing wrong with people wanting to own a gun if they choose but good lord do we need a better system to keep it out of the hands of those mentally unfit or repeat violent offenders of crimes.

Honestly I think people should do everything in their power to learn how to defend themselves in the worse case. If someone disarms you and you don't have a backup weapon and don't know how to fight unarmed you're kind of screwed. And surprsingly taking a gun apart really fast in a fight is not as movie bullshit as it sounds, after a few days of practice it's scary easy. For once action movies got something right.

Haven't fired a gun (yet) but did take a few classes in Brazilian Ju Jitsu. Honestly wish I hadn't stopped.



Sorry, I misunderstood your post.



Right?

People think I'm crazy when I say strangers are dicks to me for no reason, asking what I did to piss them off. Like not everyone is trying to get revenge for being wronged or think they were wronged, some people are just messed up and like to wrong others.



China just pretty much put a stop on Chinese players talking to others around the world via Animal Crossing.



The optimist in me is hoping this pandemic will make some governments rethink how they do things or give their citizens the idea and courage to fight for change or at the very least make the world put more pressure on them to stop being so callous with human life. But the pessimist in me is expecting very little to change and if it does it'll be slow.

thank god for Myth-Busters. (RIP) I would have never thought about taking a gun away, rather than shooting one at the shooters legs or something

 

[Juxtapose]

Thanks for the perspective everyone!

So again, as an outsider looking in, the fact that so many people feel the need to own firearms to protect themselves from others using firearms points to me that there's a greater problem at play. For a prosperous, first world nation, having that level of fear and truly having that level of a threat in your own home is not right at all, and having a firearm seems like a band aid fix to me as opposed to addressing the reason for the fear and need for one in the first place.

The above is not meant to rip on anyone or start a flame war, or anything, simply against stating my own perspective and observation as an outsider.

@M2Dave I am indeed aware that that is in the country's constitution.

 

[Marlow]

One thing, just looking ahead, is how this USA is going to end up paying for the COVID relief package. USA had already gone into a lot of debt after Iraq and Afghanistan wars, took on even more debt with the 2008/2009 stimulus package, passed a huge tax cut a couple years ago that greatly added to the debt while not cutting any spending, and now has another massive aid bill.

To me, the only sensible reality is that at some point we really need to raise taxes in America, likely in addition to cutting spending. Right now, taxes are just too low: https://www.oecd.org/tax/revenue-statistics-united-states.pdf

Right now taxes in America is 24% of GDP. Average is 34%.

Cutting spending is also something that likely needs to happen, although the problem is the vast majority of spending is on things like Defense, Health Care, and Social Security, programs which are generally seen as very necessary or programs that help a lot of people. Or programs which are difficult to cut for political reasons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expenditures_in_the_United_States_federal_budget#/media/File:2018_Federal_Budget_Infographic.png

 

[LiangHuBBB]

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Exactly @Juxtapose. And that’s why I brought it up — because the fact that lots of Americans don’t see anything wrong with gun culture (and find justification for it) likely mirrors the way that several asian cultures look at wet markets.

It’s easy to justify something when you’ve grown up with it and can’t step outside of your view to look at it from the rest of the world’s perspective.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Okay huge bummer, the navajo nation has the most cases per capita out of the entire country aside from NY and NJ. The states it's a part of- New Mexico, Arizona, and Utah aren't nearly that high. It is basically a third world country in the middle of the country, with violent crime, drug, and poverty rates to reflect that. Very sad, I hope things get better there.

 

[Anarchist_Gib]

Exactly @Juxtapose. lots of Americans don’t see anything wrong with gun culture (and find justification for it) likely mirrors the way that several asian cultures look at wet markets.

While I find that a very dubious comparison, wet markets seem to be an example of where people seem to be injecting their subjective preferences in place of the economic realities that necessitate them.

The coronavirus likely came from China’s wet markets. They’re reopening anyway.

Should wet markets be banned? It’s more complicated than it seems.

www.vox.com

Does anyone here purchase gold? Most vendors currently have unprecedented delays due to volume and the price is up almost 250 from past month. The idea that we could be seeing a return to above 2000 to the troy is both exciting and a little mind-blowing.
(edit)- not to say I'm excited about the circumstances of course, just the fact in and of itself

 

[Jynks]

truth​

 

[Dankster Morgan]

truth​

Dude for real, at work it was so terrible. It was an oddly humid day for here in the desert, any time I would take a customer their food in the parking lot my glasses would fog up like crazy.