Strategy Characters that can punish max range TKP

[Metzos]

Smoke Bomb: No. Force push is -17 on block, smoke bomb has 19 execution frames. 2 frames to block, close but no cigar

ex Shadow Kick: No. 21 frame execution fullscreen, seeing as how max TKP range is almost fullscreen, im pretty sure red kick cant touch you.

ex Dragon Kick: No way in hell. 28 execution frames fulscreen

Dive Kick: 23 execution frames at fullscreen, a big no as well.

Mileena's Teleport: You're on a roll arent you. 24 execution frames, you still have 10 frames to block.

Teleport Uppercut: This has 16 frame execution minimum. It is punishable, but just.

Shoulder: Normal shoulder is 15 frames at fullscreen, but at max tkp range you could punish a blocked tkp if you do the input just frame. Enhanced version is 19 frames, i say blockable.

Buzzsaws: 40 execution frames fullscreen. Buzzsaws are pretty slow travelling across the screen. Blockable

Gun Shot: 29 execution frames, blockable

Roll Toss: 24 execution frames, blockable

Yep. Everything but NW shoulder, teleport uppercut and even then its tricky to just-frame it. Thanks to Somberness, and to Kami for correcting me

Dont forget shoulder has a traveling time Sunny. Even if you do it just frame it might whiff cause its not an instant punish. Same with Sektor's tu. I've already tested NW's shoulder against a max range TKP and i had time to crouch and punish it. So the regular one is out of the question. Still need to check the EX version though, although i still believe that even the EX version cant punish it. Dont forget a blocked TKP applies a little knockback also.

Post edited.

 

[SunnyD]

Dont forget shoulder has a traveling time Sunny. Even if you do it just frame it might whiff cause its not an instant punish. Same with Sektor's tu

Yeah i accounted that in my post. Shoulder is 10 frames up close, but 15 fullscreen.

Also, Sektor's teleport is blockable, as it is only 15 frames in the air. It has to take at least an extra 2 frames to jump so unless Sektor has godlike input precision you can block it.

 

[Metzos]

Yeah i accounted that in my post. Shoulder is 10 frames up close, but 15 fullscreen.

Also, Sektor's teleport is blockable, as it is only 15 frames in the air. It has to take at least an extra 2 frames to jump so unless Sektor has godlike input precision you can block it.

So in theory Sektor could punish it with an ITU. What about Baraka ? Havent played against Baraka with Ermac for a long time but i remember his blade charge is very fast. Also his EX version goes fullscreen if i remember correctly right ?

 

[SunnyD]

So in theory Sektor could punish it with an ITU. What about Baraka ? Havent played against Baraka with Ermac for a long time but i remember his blade charge is very fast. Also his EX version goes fullscreen if i remember correctly right ?

Baraka is a special case, because blade charge is 18 frames fullscreen but normal blade charge is 15. It depends on whether or not normal blade charge is within range, which i dont think it is.

And in theory Sektor can punish it, but it would be such a crazy fluke that you deserved to get combo'd anyway, lol. You would have to just-frame the jump and just-frame the teleport. Chances of this happening is slim to none. In fact, i think it takes a couple of frames to jump, if that is the case than tkp is safe at max range.

 

[Metzos]

Execution is -14 on block is -17. How long does it take to block? Nightwolfs tackle will hit, as will sektors teleport for sure

Dont forget those moves have travelling time Kami they are not instant punishers like Freddy's HS for example.

 

[Metzos]

Baraka is a special case, because blade charge is 18 frames fullscreen but normal blade charge is 15. It depends on whether or not normal blade charge is within range, which i dont think it is.

So its all about spacing and good perception of the Baraka player. Glad to know that. I m gonna still test them both though but if they are like JC's SK TKP might be safe too against them.

 

[SunnyD]

So its all about spacing and good perception of the Baraka player. Glad to know that. I m gonna still test them both though but if they are like JC's SK TKP might be safe too against them.

Alot of it is situational and depends on the spacing, timing and frame data knowledge of both players. Imo except for a few characters the worst that could happen is a projectile start-up from the opponent or they move closer. I will try to find all the characters that can punish this, and compile them into one post later on. Or i can send you the information via PM and you can edit it into the first post.

 

[Metzos]

Alot of it is situational and depends on the spacing, timing and frame data knowledge of both players. Imo except for a few characters the worst that could happen is a projectile start-up from the opponent or they move closer. I will try to find all the characters that can punish this, and compile them into one post later on. Or i can send you the information via PM and you can edit it into the first post.

You mean the opponent trying to punish the blocked TKP with a projectile, if i understood right ?

 

[SunnyD]

You mean the opponent trying to punish the blocked TKP with a projectile, if i understood right ?

Yeah, they can initiate the projectile unhindered. Like if Reptile blocks the TKP, he can do a acid spit knowing it wont get interrupted by another TKP. Safe projectile.

 

[Metzos]

Cage Shadow Kick?
Kung Lao Spin?
Nightwolf Shoulder Charge?
Smoke Teleport Punch?

Have you tried these?

Nope neither of these moves can punish it when its done at max range.

Post edited.

 

[Slips]

Is it too painfully obvious to say Ermac can punish his own TKP at max distance. =P

 

[Metzos]

Is it too painfully obvious to say Ermac can punish his own TKP at max distance. =P

This is why i love mirror matches .

EDIT: I see what you did there.

 

[1man3letters]

metzos13

regarding baraka he can indeed punish a max range TKP with charge,
it is not a easy punish because of the extra pushback a max range TKP gives as opposed to a any other TKP but it is very possible.
ex charge will also work, while it takes baraka 18 frame to go full screen,hes not going full screen to punish a max range TKP

funnily enough max range TKP and max range blade charge happen at the same distance but a max range charge gives slighty more pushback than max range TKP, so with ermac having the extra 4 frames of startup and getting pushed back more he cannot punish barakas max range charge

also i think it might be an idea to note while some moves may be a frame or 2 to slow to punish max range TKP because of the extra pushback it gives,when opponents back in against the corner that extra pushback doesnt happen so maybe there would be more moves that could punish ermac in that situation only

 

[MagicMan357]

kano ball?

 

[Metzos]

metzos13

regarding baraka he can indeed punish a max range TKP with charge,
it is not a easy punish because of the extra pushback a max range TKP gives as opposed to a any other TKP but it is very possible.
ex charge will also work, while it takes baraka 18 frame to go full screen,hes not going full screen to punish a max range TKP

funnily enough max range TKP and max range blade charge happen at the same distance but a max range charge gives slighty more pushback than max range TKP, so with ermac having the extra 4 frames of startup and getting pushed back more he cannot punish barakas max range charge

also i think it might be an idea to note while some moves may be a frame or 2 to slow to punish max range TKP because of the extra pushback it gives,when opponents back in against the corner that extra pushback doesnt happen so maybe there would be more moves that could punish ermac in that situation only

Cool, glad to know m8. Thnx.

 

[Metzos]

kano ball?

It can punish a regular one. Not a one done when Ermac is at max range.

 

[zaf]

can ermac really puniah himself in dittos at max range ?

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[Chuckychuck]

can ermac really puniah himself in dittos at max range ?

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Ermac's jedi powers are instant for the whole hit box, so if the max TKP is counting a push that does not push the pushed Ermac outside of range then yes he can. If the pushed Ermac has to take a step forward before he can push back then no.

Someone check Ex SC from Kenshi. It should be within range for the second sword hit, the first hit probly whiffs though so I'm guessing it's blockable but I'm not home now. Someone check for me.

 

[SunnyD]

Someone check Ex SC from Kenshi. It should be within range for the second sword hit, the first hit probly whiffs though so I'm guessing it's blockable but I'm not home now. Someone check for me.

Kenshi can punish with SC.

 

[Metzos]

Kenshi can punish with SC.

Have you tested it ?

 

[SunnyD]

Have you tested it ?

Naw but the frame data says you can, and i can see it happening. You are at -17 after a blocked tkp, SC is 8 frames so i can see that happening very easily.

 

[Metzos]

Naw but the frame data says you can, and i can see it happening. You are at -17 after a blocked tkp, SC is 8 frames so i can see that happening very easily.

Yeah but what range does EX SC does ?

 

[Chuckychuck]

Yeah but what range does EX SC does ?

farther than reg, about same as TKP which is why I think it hits but might be blockable. The first hit is the shoulder which I think whiffs. The second is the sword which extends the range of the move, so that one hits, but at which frame is the question

 

[Metzos]

I ll test it out this Sunday. If everyone else tests it out first feel free to post the results here.

EDIT: Dont forget TKP covers 3/4 of the full screen if done correctly. I really dont think Kenshi's EX SC has that range.

 

[Metzos]

OP edited.