Character Powers: An Injustice in Balance

[RYX]

Which fighting game is easy? I never said to lower the bar on fighting games, or make them for casuals..every game must be learned, however fighters tend to have a longer shelf life than other genres, and that being said, the learning curve is higher, meaning more time in nurture and education is needed. Making something appealing to casuals and catering to them are two totally different issues.

MK is pretty easy compared to other fighters. I don't think Injustice can be labelled as easy just yet considering a solid meta hasn't been established but the easiness in some characters in comparison to a skewed risk reward seems a bit... off?

I think Injustice does cater a little to casuals but not enough to discourage higher level of play. As close as we've gotten to a perfect balance so far.

 

[Deleted member 9158]

Harley Quinn approves of this message...


Sure Harley's character power fits her character but it is complete ass in game...
So she can pull a rose for minor health regen
She can pull a picture of Joker for minor attack strength
She can pull a stick of dynamite (if close enough) for unblockable ground bounce.

The trait takes forever to come out- she has to smell the rose, kiss the picture and duck and cover for the dynamite .. And any benefit that would be taken from the trait.. Becomes null and void due to the full fricken combo you eat once you dare touch trait.
I would not mind, mind you, if Superman's trait made him jump a bit higher, or Aquaman's trait allowed him to throw his trident like a boomerang and have it hit on the way back..And if Grundy's trait allowed him to simply have a sneaky command grab..But since other characters have, Armor breaking capabilities, Ability to escape a ground based combo, a command grab that gives you a permanent buff of your choosing til you grip them up again and change your mind... I got an issue with Miss Quinn's.

I don't bitch about it.. I have learned to live without my trait button as a Harley player... But in a game where other traits can be match/match-up changing, it feels like... NAY.. IS a definite handicap.

Yeah, I don't even use her trait. It's useless imo

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Cyborg: He should be immune to ranged attacks while using his trait, not melee attacks, and the Health Recovery speed should be a bit faster. Give it a longer cool down.
.

This is the smartest recommendation for cyborg ive heard yet

 

[Jeffreys]

there are 11 characters off the top of my head who counter AM's trait. Thats not the definition of "get out of jail free".

The correct way to adjust Batman's trait is NOT a charge like Sinestro, its adjust the cool down per bat so that it takes more time before Batman can summon a bat after using them all.

The correct way to adjust AM's trait isn't to disable it after he uses it, its add cool down to it. It has an 8 second cool down, double the cool down on it.

HOWEVER... if you nerf these 2 traits, how about Superman.. Fine is it? 70-100% combos, breaks armor including supers.... AAAAAND, he ALWAYS seems to have it when he hits you for those safe, game ending corner combos.

IMO, people should stop crying for nerfs and think positive. How about for buffs that are reasonable?

Sinestro - How about LESS charge time? Also, How about his trait not leaving after clashes, supers, and transitions?

Bane - How about he has a dash like Doomsday when he is level 3? How about his downtime and down side effects are all like his level 1.


I want you all to realize something... This time around, IF you all get the 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999 nerfs you want, if there ends up being a "Kabal" character... it will be because YOU asked for it.

Tom most of us are ONLY asking for Buffs. We all remember MK9 all too well.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

NO, sorry Pig, just NO, never mention the balance changes for Sub-Zero as a positive... ever, lol. The balance changes to mk9 were complete garbage for the most part.

I am not against balance changes in games but the ones in MK9 fked up a lot of characters while the really dirty characters were left alone.

i was really hoping tom would go ape on me for that one

 

[Vagrant]

Deathstrokes is shit. Too much startup... Risky as hell against any player worth a damn.

Which. Is fine cause he's such a strong char in almost ever other aspect. If trait was strong he'd be the best char in the game imo.

 

[xWEBSx]

He has a super risky trait and a poor moveset, double negatives, bad.

So it would be safe to say that if his move set was made better, his trait would be fine?

If that is the case.. Again, like I said to other Bane mains.. Your arguments for helping Bane need to be relocated to a different thread.

 

[Critical-Limit]

Negative, I would like all characters to be viable.. Is Banes main issue his trait or his move set?

I'd say it's that double damage BS. Even pigs mention of Parry, Full combo if I bait it. the only one I'm annoyed with parry wise is Joker's.

That's literally my only gripe.

I can deal with zoning I don't need 5 hits of armor.

Bane is a beast in the corner.

But he doesn't deal anywhere near as much damage as he takes in full venom, as he takes during his cooldown.


It's like drinking an energy drink for the first time when you're not use to it. you feel all energized for like an hour and you like "WOO"

Then another hour later, for like 5+ hours you feel a nasty crash and regret that you ever used it.


It's the same thing with Bane, but if you don't drink any energy drinks because you're tired and can't keep up with the awake people. but atleast you don't get the crash? Well how can you keep up then?

The problem is the COST is too high IMO for the "benefit"

I don't care about a penalty,

But the penalty as is, is too high.

 

[salvificblood]

i was really hoping tom would go ape on me for that one

It certainly made me salty.

 

[Tom Brady]

i was really hoping tom would go ape on me for that one

Those days are long behind me. I dont "go ape", "go emo", or give a damn about what people think or say especially the stream trolls. I am here to help the community the way I should have in MK9.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Those days are long behind me. I dont "go ape", "go emo", or give a damn about what people think or say especially the stream trolls. I am here to help the community the way I should have in MK9.

idk man Sub Zero is pretty viable

jk lol

He's the injustice of sinestro

 

[SLy]

Welcome to the shitty Trait club -Harley , Cyborg , Joker , DS

Haha.. I see what you did there.

 

[xWEBSx]

I'd say it's that double damage BS. Even pigs mention of Parry, Full combo if I bait it. the only one I'm annoyed with parry wise is Joker's.

That's literally my only gripe.

I can deal with zoning I don't need 5 hits of armor.

Bane is a beast in the corner.

But he doesn't deal anywhere near as much damage as he takes in full venom, as he takes during his cooldown.


It's like drinking an energy drink for the first time when you're not use to it. you feel all energized for like an hour and you like "WOO"

Then another hour later, for like 5+ hours you feel a nasty crash and regret that you ever used it.


It's the same thing with Bane, but if you don't drink any energy drinks because you're tired and can't keep up with the awake people. but atleast you don't get the crash? Well how can you keep up then?

The problem is the COST is too high IMO for the "benefit"

I don't care about a penalty,

But the penalty as is, is too high.

Well said and well explained.. Have you thought of a proper balance that would not break him but make him more competitive?

 

[Trini_Bwoi]

I think the bad AND balanced traits are the ones that are the true injustice. I figured traits would represent the notion of every character having crazy unbalanced shit. And it wouldn't be a problem if done right because everyone has one. Batman's, Aquaman's etc...traits follow this idea. But clearly some of the traits were balanced to hell and back and some are awful. Yea, Deathstroke's trait is balanced but I don't think the aim should have been balance, it should have been to make everything like the unbalanced traits. And then there's shit like Cyborg, who knows what happened there, he should be on some Eyedol level healing. So, if it comes down to traits, I agree with everyone saying buff.

 

[jak d ripr]

I'd give it a lot more time before I come to conclusions, like the OP's post said, there were a bunch of characters whose traits you didn't even understand yet. Plus your looking at this in a vacuum, if a character has a shitty trait, but is still top tier, do they really need a buff? Same with if a characters trait is amazing but the character is still bottom tier I don't think they need a nerf either.

Either way the point is, I hope NRS wait till after evo at the very least before they start patching characters, I mean this is a completely new game with a completely new system, it'll take a little while before people figure out what's really broken.

I do admit bane in particular looks like he needs some help since as a character he's looking kinda "meh" at the moment, and his trait is probably one of the worst in the entire game. But you never know, we haven't even begun to scratch the surface with a lotta characters so I'd still give it a while.

 

[xSMoKEx]

Sooo, you ask for help, yet deny it when it's given to you? Ok. That's all I needed to hear.



This is a gimmick, which is what his trait is. And with Trait active, you're usually full screen and it'd be idiotic to approach just to do 132. And the 4 options I found best to use when Trait is active are:

1) Machine Gun MB, covers most screen, only certain positions don't hit , Aerial hit leaves them knocked down
2)132, fastest mid-hitter 5%, VERY negative though and is only to use to scare them into jumping
3)iaGS, answer to jumping
4)LowGS, is to use after a knock-down.

His trait, when used late game vs. certain characters is far from a gimmick. Unblockable gunshots that make the opponent play YOUR game while closing off the round is pretty damn good.

Didn't you say a few posts ago the opponent would get in if you used trait? Well there's your unblockable 132 into 27% if you condition them right. Now you're saying you're usually full screen so whats the issue? Take free unblockable damage. How is this a bad thing?

There's better traits out there, I'm not denying it, but it's just not as bad as you make it out to be. He's already a strong zoner, the trait is just more help late game assuming you've burnt a lot of your meter prior and you need help keeping a character away.

 

[Ronald_A_Knox]

Those days are long behind me. I dont "go ape", "go emo", or give a damn about what people think or say especially the stream trolls. I am here to help the community the way I should have in MK9.

Well, then please realise this: most people here are aware that nerfs are more destructive if mis-used and want buffs instead.

 

[xWEBSx]

His trait, when used late game vs. certain characters is far from a gimmick. Unblockable gunshots that make the opponent play YOUR game while closing off the round is pretty damn good.

Didn't you say a few posts ago the opponent would get in if you used trait? Well there's your unblockable 132 into 27% if you condition them right. Now you're saying you're usually full screen so whats the issue? Take free unblockable damage. How is this a bad thing?

There's better traits out there, I'm not denying it, but it's just not as bad as you make it out to be. He's already a strong zoner, the trait is just more help late game assuming you've burnt a lot of your meter prior and you need help keeping a character away.

That's A BINGO!

I'd give it a lot more time before I come to conclusions, like the OP's post said, there were a bunch of characters whose traits you didn't even understand yet. Plus your looking at this in a vacuum, if a character has a shitty trait, but is still top tier, do they really need a buff? Same with if a characters trait is amazing but the character is still bottom tier I don't think they need a nerf either.

Either way the point is, I hope NRS wait till after evo at the very least before they start patching characters, I mean this is a completely new game with a completely new system, it'll take a little while before people figure out what's really broken.

I do admit bane in particular looks like he needs some help since as a character he's looking kinda "meh" at the moment, and his trait is probably one of the worst in the entire game. But you never know, we haven't even begun to scratch the surface with a lotta characters so I'd still give it a while.

Let me introduce you to Miss Harley Quinn- by no means top tier and by all means top 3 useless trait in game... Don't need Evo to tell me DO NOT HIT THE TRAIT BUTTON.

 

[RYX]

idk man Sub Zero is pretty viable

jk lol

He's the injustice of sinestro

The injustice of Sinestro? lol

 

[jak d ripr]

That's A BINGO!



Let me introduce you to Miss Harley Quinn- by no means top tier and top 3 useless trait in game... Don't need Evo to tell me DO NOT HIT THE TRAIT BUTTON.

All I'm saying is it's way too early. I mean, how long has the game been out? Just over a month? The same thing happened with marvel 3, game came out everyone was complaining about sentinel, dude got nerfed and now 2 years later everyone is saying he shouldn't have gotten nerfed.

Your probably going to be right in the long run, harley's trait in it's current state will probably never be useful, but personally I'm not a fan of quick patches. I realize how frustrating it must be to be stuck with a shitty trait while batman and the lot have amazing traits, and I'm not really in a position to preach patience since I use grundy, but you have to see where I'm coming from at the very least.

 

[Art]

EDITED: from my earlier post sorry for the long post..
Superman: His trait is too much like Bane's he should ONLY have the ability to break armor, and NOT a damage boost. It should also have a charge factor. Perhaps it gives him ONE hit of armor on Specials while active eg. The Man of Steel.
Bane: I feel he is fine as is, perhaps grant him a "Parry Break" ability to be attached to specials while Venom is up.
Cyborg: He should be immune to ranged attacks while using his trait, not melee attacks, and the Health Recovery speed should be a bit faster. Give it a longer cool down.
Black Adam: His trait is fine as is.
Harley Quinn: Her trait needs faster start up to be more effective so the random factor won't actually be a hindrance in game play.
Aquaman: His trait need a longer cool down.
Doomsday: I feel his trait needs to be able to adsorb a set amount of hits (say about 4 or 5) not have a 7sec duration.
Lex: Add projectile deflection to his trait making projectiles bounce back in the direction they came from would make it more useful, along with the absorbing 2 hits.
Batman: Longer cool down on Robo-Bats.
Lobo: To much needs to be fixed on this character, but his trait needs a larger damage buff IMO.
Killer Frost: Her Trait is fine.
Sinestro: His Trait is fine.
Catwoman: Her trait is fine.
Hawkgirl: Perhaps increase the movement speed while she is flying.
Joker: Give his trait the ability to parry while being hit like Aquaman's trait but give it a limited use, to where it can only be used only 3 times a match until his x3Ha meter is filled. Make the "Ha"s permanent buffs to his movement speed. Increase the damage of the Parry to 11%.
Green Arrow: His Trait is fine as per Chris G.
Green lantern: His trait is fine. His Ring Grab move should be able to be ducked.
Wounder Woman: Her Trait is fine.
Solomon Grundy: His trait needs allot of re-tweeking. The Health buff throw currently dose NOTHING, make it heal Grundy 6% or something. The Defensive throw buff should give a Flat 2% damage shield vs. all attacks. Damage Throw is fine as is. Add in that each health gain must be reset with a different throw, after the initial one (Example: Heath Throw then Damage Throw into another Heath throw would yield 12% health, but x2 Heath throws in a row would only be 6%). Drop the damage from the Health Throw by -2%.
Ares: His Trait is fine. Perhaps increase start-up on some of his normals so he can't do the 100% reset.
Raven: Her Trait is fine, but perhaps her DF1 Projectile should track the target while in Demon form.
Death Stroke: His trait needs a bit faster start up but his gun moves need a slower start up, to allow rush-down a bit more of a chance to get in.
Flash: His Trait is fine.

 

[Ronald_A_Knox]

Harley Quinn: Her trait needs faster start up to be more effective so the random factor won't actually be a hindrance in game play.

Why do people always assume it's the randomness that is the problem? I don't care how random it is, just let me use it without taking a free 30-50% to the face, ok?

 

[Art]

Why do people always assume it's the randomness that is the problem? I don't care how random it is, just let me use it without taking a free 30-50% to the face, ok?

Like I said "Faster Start-Up"

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

His trait, when used late game vs. certain characters is far from a gimmick. Unblockable gunshots that make the opponent play YOUR game while closing off the round is pretty damn good.

Didn't you say a few posts ago the opponent would get in if you used trait? Well there's your unblockable 132 into 27% if you condition them right. Now you're saying you're usually full screen so whats the issue? Take free unblockable damage. How is this a bad thing?

There's better traits out there, I'm not denying it, but it's just not as bad as you make it out to be. He's already a strong zoner, the trait is just more help late game assuming you've burnt a lot of your meter prior and you need help keeping a character away.

I never said it was a bad thing to have them full screen. I assumed you said to start approaching when Trait is active, getting them to approach you is a good idea too. I won't disagree.

But this all comes down to how it started: getting it activated and keeping your momentum. Sure, against some characters it'll work to gimmick them with the Trait after a Sword Flip. But there's no way someone like Supes or DS would let that fly.

 

[Btt Ownge Mble]

Those days are long behind me. I dont "go ape", "go emo", or give a damn about what people think or say especially the stream trolls. I am here to help the community the way I should have in MK9.

Well I think everyone can generally agree that the traits of Joker, Harley, and Cyborg are completely useless. Then we have traits that need re-working like Bane's venom and Lex's shield.

I agree with Tom that we should focus on buffing those traits before we worry about nerfing Doomsday and Superman's traits.

Ok so Joker: I think having a parry as a trait is just retarded... I say rework this entirely to his trait almost being like an bizzaro flash trait... where he activates it, and then the ha ha ha's count down and he maybe gets a 7-10 second speed boost. Then it has to recharge. As an aside this makes no freaking sense comic wise b/c the joker isn't particularly agile or fast.

Harley: Like ppl have said the trait needs faster startups on all of the random shit. Then I believe someone said that something interesting to try would be to have the first time you activate it be random, then next time it be the 2 remaining ones, then the last 1 you know what's coming. This way it's still "somewhat" random but you can control the randomness towards the end of the match and actually have shit you want coming out when it comes out.

Cyborg: Above pig mentioned immunity to ranged attacks while channeling trait. Either that or have it on a cooldown as well and let him slowly regen maybe 10% life an have an activation and cooldown on par with deathstroke or aquaman, etc.

Bane's Venom: I like Tom's idea of only having the drawbacks of level 1 venom, despite being at lvls 2 & 3 when it wears off. I don't play bane or see alot of bane's, but I feel like one of the problems of him is also his slow ass normals. So maybe, and if this is too OP someone let me know, maybe for like 1-2 seconds after activating trait he gets 1 hit of armor on all his normals as well? That might make him too overpowered tho, I dunno. It could be compensated for by increasing recharge of venom.

Lex's shield: more than 1 hit of armor... OR 1 hit of armor plus extra armor vs projectiles... for example armor wears off after 1 melee hit, but he can tank 3-4 projectile blasts.