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Can Injustice appeal to casuals?

Cossner

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
Administrator
This is probably one of the most casual-appealing fighting games out there (MvC3 takes the crown though).

You're fighting with incredibly popular mainstream characters.
You can do "cool moves" with a press of a button.
You don't need to have strong fundamentals to win.
Inter... actables.
+33% health comeback mechanic.

Yes, I understand you're a casual. You think doing "combos" is high level. Just to be clear, doing combos is a very basic thing. Memorizing frame data, playing footsies, making reads, that's high level. Not "performing combos".

TectonicSuperPlates said:
"Quit the game" is probably one of the responses expected from elitists. But we all know they are scum who live in their mother's basement, so I won't pay any mind to those. "Just learn to do 15 hit combos" is another. Quite frankly, we all don't have that competitive bone in our bodies, especially with fighters. Some of us just want to sit back, chill, play a game with our friends and have fun(although when your friend knows how to perform 15 hit combos...yeah...it sucks as well. Lol.).
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I don't think you know where you are.
TYM 'was' supposed to be the premium competitive forum for the MK community. As in, for competitive people who learn how to play the game and go to tournaments.
It's not the "play the game like a casuals and complain about batman stance" forum.
Again, learning how to do combos is not "being competitive". Is the most basic of the basic stuff you can learn.

If you don't want to learn the game and you just want to mash your face into the controller, that's all fine, but don't complain that you don't win. Especially not in a Competitive Fighting Game Forum. Because to me that's basically what you're saying. "This game doesn't appeal to casuals because I can't win against people who at least try to learn the game".
 
Hellbringer

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
So let me get this straight, if a casual cant win against a competetive player then the game isnt made for casuals?
Seriously dude, if u want a game where u only press one button for a 10 hit combo, then your in the wrong place.
I should have stopped reading your first post after the "live in your moms basement" part.
Don't blame the game or other players if your too lazy to learn a combo or just too lazy to learn anything at all.
 
Hitoshura

Hitoshura

Head Cage
I'm not gonna go into detail about answering if injustice, or more so fighting games, are meant for casuals because that will be a topic discussed on my podcast sometime in the future, but all I have to say now is that fighting games aren't meant to be easy at all and dumbing down the combat can ruin the games competitive play overall.
 
TheTHCGamer

TheTHCGamer

Noob
Hitoshura said:
I'm not gonna go into detail about answering if injustice, or more so fighting games, are meant for casuals because that will be a topic discussed on my podcast sometime in the future, but all I have to say now is that fighting games aren't meant to be easy at all and dumbing down the combat can ruin the games competitive play overall.
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100% agreed fighting games are competitive at heart and no matter how much you dumb them down you still see a lot of the top players dominating. Why you ask? Because those players put in The time and make it a point to get better which is why I feel dumbing down fighting games is pointless. I've said it before and I'll say it again all fighting games even the most advanced ones can be enjoyed at all levels of play. If we keep dumbing down fighting games they won't be fighting games anymore. I think it's great to have lots of depth because gives even new players an incentive to keep learning and playing if they want to take there skills to the next level.

As I mentioned in my previous post in this topic which I feel people new to fighting games should read is developers need to put more of an emphasis on practice modes. Let players know that most likely all there problems could be solved if they only take the time to learn how to counter what there having trouble with. As far as the fighting game community goes we need to let people know that losing and learning why you lost is important. I understand the perspective of a new player but you find out I'm life that things worth doing are worth learning. The best players in the world lose but the only difference is they learn from there losses. Learn to accept losing as I stated its vital to your growth.

We need to teach casuals this and let them know we all lose. There's no point complaining and nerfing a character if your still going to lose.
 
T

trufenix

bye felicia
Ooh, Ooh, I love it when we talk about "casuals" like they're some sort of disease or pet.

Do you really think they can handle all those different buttons!? Sure the game has a tutorial, but words like "block" and "dash" don't translate into their prehistory tribal speak!
 
Zerosoulreaver

Zerosoulreaver

Noob
It already has, DLC is all people freakin talk about even if they don't play competitively.

Injustice is the new hype for the moment and I hope it lives out the long run. I just worry b/c you know how casuals and online warriors play a game for a few months then say it sucks a month later.

Casuals aren't bad but they don't stick with games and play games only for the hype. Which is an explanation to the DS crying...ppl don't learn the game and just hop online.
 
Reptile Orion

Reptile Orion

A Fire Will Rise.
Hellion_96 said:
Is this thread serious? It's not about what you do when you open your opponent up (combos) it's about how you open them up (reads,footsies, ect) The fun of the game is out thinking your opponent by making reads and conditioning your opponent combos are just the reward for out playing the other player.
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Agreed.

I may be old school with this line of thought but I never purchased a fighting game in order to play it "casually". A lot of people have a "I want it now attitude" and don't respect the time and dedication the competitive players have put in (practice time, maining certain characters, frame data, wakeups, combos, playstyles etc.). I would recommend it someone wants to play this game casually then don't go online because your likely to get frustrated.

It's not fair to blame another player when you lose because they have taken the time to become a student of the game. There is a lesson to be learned with every loss. You can still become a competitive player without sitting in your parents basement playing Injustice all day. It all comes down to how you use the time available to you.

For me personally life is different now than it was 10 years ago. I primarily play on week nights and weekends due to work and family commitments. If you truly want to become a better player just get it done! :)

Hopefully this message is coherent. I'm still waiting on the coffee to kick in :D.
 
Amadeous

Amadeous

Noob
Who do you think will still be playing the game in two years.

Casuals or Pros?

Try playing Blazblue now that all the hype has died out, playing a scrub is like finding bigfoot.
 
Onilordasmodeus

Onilordasmodeus

My GT: UncappedWheel82
Wow. This thread has really opened me up a bit as for years (since the MK1 and SF2 days) I've been a gung-ho, hardcore fighting game guy, and I never (and I mean NEVER) was in this "casual" mind set. Still, even back then in those earlier days, I was a scrub, and it wasn't until much later that I dropped my scrubby mindset, and adopted the "play to win" standard that I hold true to today.

For the record, though FGs have always been my VG genre of choice, I've never been the best at one particular game. I say this just to make it known that I (and probably many others here), in our journey to be the best we can, have been in this hardcore bubble that we've constucted for ourselves for a long time, and have seemingly distanced ourselves from the causal crowd and thier (your) mindset, and so now with this new influx of "new to the genre" members who have joined TYM, the clash of the "core" and "casual" is in full effect.

To all the newer members, know that TYM (and sites like it) have always been a haven to the core FG fans, so reading a casual's perspective here is both bewindering (to most) and somewhat inspiring (to me anyway). Seeing/reading all these new perspectives, I'm really only left with only 1 question: as a community, where do we all go from here?

IMO, to answer the OP, FGs (including Injustice) are mostly for the hardcore. Yes, casuals can get enjoyment from these games, and can have fun just fighting, but core players thrive on improvment, and love to learn in both winning AND loosing, as a lot of the enjoyment of this genre is found in the journey as well as the finale. This has been the case ever since way back in the arcade days (MK1, SF2), where if you went up against a core player, you'd have you work cut out for you to win, as even though those games were just about fundamentals, it took time to learn them, and you had to have a certain level of core-ness to you to get better. But yes, as the genre shifted and became deeper (stronger punishes, for flamboyant specials, for defensive options), the gap only widened between the core and the casual.

If you are a casual fan of the genre in todays evironment, and you find yourself going up against a core player, I can see how it can be frustrating as you "just want to have fun" or just want to use fundamentals, and I can see how a core player can seem like an insurmountable obstacle in your path to fun. But I think it is important to realize the other side of the coin, and know that core players aren't comboing you to degrade you, or make a slight against you. Their combos are about them, and the path to improvment that they have set upon themselves. Geting mad at them for playing their game the way they want, is the same as that "elitist" getting mad at you for playing your game the way you want. (Also realize, most of the "spammers", or rage quiters you meet online, are most likely casusals too as someone from TYM, or from other sites, would take a lose in stride.)

To bring it back though, like I said in the beginning of this post, this thread really opened me up, as before today I was content helping people on the forums exclusively, and just killing people online as my way of self improving, and also improving the community. But now, I want any "casual" players out there who are reading this thread and either have an itch to get better, or just want to play with some one from the "elitist-side", to hit me up for some games on Live. I'm all about helping the comunity in anyway that I can with the limited time that I have, and like I said at the top, I'm not the best, but I do feel that I can see and peice together aspects of the game with the best of them. So, if you want to learn from an "elitist", hit me up.

Xbox GT: UncappedWheel82

Bottomline, this game, this genre, at it's core isn't about winning or loosing, it's about leveling up and getting better. As you level-up you win more yes, but like I've already said, it's more about the journey then the finale.
 
Euphoric

Euphoric

MKX
Combo's are not "competitive" or "high level", that only "elitist" players know how to do, it's a integral part of the game you have to learn, just to play the game. If I don't know the basics of the game, how am I going to complain, whine and cry, when I lose? If I don't know my characters, strings, combos and speicals, I'm not doing damage, if I'm not doing damage, I am not winning. I don't understand people who send me rage mail when the entirety of the match they're jumping or doing strings full screen which is blatantly obvious it's not hitting. (I picture most casuals and people who come here to complain to play like this or to some extent, be smart enough to know a combo or know that you have to hit the person to win.)

It's as if you're playing Basketball and don't have the hand and eye coordination to dribble the ball than make your 2pt or 3pt shot, so I should be able to travel if playing against someone who know's how to handle the ball, juke, cross over, fake, move while dribbling the ball away from me and make their shots because their judgment and dribbling skills are good on making shots? If I can't dribble the ball than make shots, I'm not scoring points, I am not winning. (Best example I can think of got BB on my mind, See Red tonight!)

If you're playing casually why are you taking it competitive, winning is part of being competitive, if you want to win, you have to play better than the other player (team), if they're better than you, and only way to win is by learning and getting into the game more than it's face value.

Also so what if Sinestro and Deathstroke are giving people problems? You're telling me, every time you play, all you run into is Deathstroke and Sinestro players? I bet not, I bet you run into many characters and probably even beat them, but the characters that gave you problems are 2 out of the 25 cast, big deal, you can't win every match, and you'll run into these characters and players who use these characters, and if you don't know how to fight 2 out the 25 cast, you'll lose 2/25 times. And those characters don't do that great up close, so they excel at staying fullscreen, just as someone who sucks at full screen (Bane or Grundy) will win when up close if they know how to play.
 
Cossner

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
Administrator
Karried said:
It's as if you're playing Basketball and don't have the hand and eye coordination to dribble the ball than make your 2pt or 3pt shot, so I should be able to travel if playing against someone who know's how to handle the ball, juke, cross over, fake, move while dribbling the ball away from me and make their shots because their judgment and dribbling skills are good on making shots? If I can't dribble the ball than make shots, I'm not scoring points, I am not winning. (Best example I can think of got BB on my mind, See Red tonight!)
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I think this is more of a "Basketball is unfair to people who can't bounce the ball, better send a letter to the NBA" situation.
 
Euphoric

Euphoric

MKX
serge

serge

Noob
You don't need to do 15 hits combos to be good at this game.... just look at Doomsday. I don't think I've ever seen a combo over 5 hits from Doomsday and he won Toryuken 2 this week end.

Just start by learning basic stuff like canceling a string into a special move or something like that. Once you get used to that and your memory muscle knows this string+special by heart then you can add the next step which is probably another string. Eventually you will get 25% combos without even noticing it.
 
MorbidAltruism

MorbidAltruism

Get over here!
Cossner said:
This is probably one of the most casual-appealing fighting games out there (MvC3 takes the crown though).
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MvC3 takes the crown for most casual-appealing fighting game... have you forgotten Super Smash Bros :p ? It probably isn't even considered a fighter anymore. :16Bit
 
TectonicSuperPlates

TectonicSuperPlates

Learn to draw the Rob Liefeld way
And it's evident that those posting are the one's who hit 15 hit combos as easily as they do wiping their own butts after dropping a deuce.

Instead of thinking logically and critically, analyzing exactly what it is casuals go through, they crack jokes and think they are funny amongst their own elitist buddies.

Remember kids, elitists used to be casuals themselves. They are just too full of themselves now to remember.

Is this why video game players get so much hate? Because those players are total assholes?

Seriously. It's like everything that I have posted in this thread is brushed aside and ignored. Why? Because I see it differently? And there are others that agree with me as well about this game appealing to casuals. Never once does the majority automatically mean the authority. Because if this game did appeal to casuals as everyone says it does, no one would be complaining exactly how much it doesn't. It would be a unanimous decision, but it isn't. Those that don't complain, again, are the elitists who land the 15-hit combos.

It's even easier to land combos in MvC3 than it is in Injustice. That's why it's a much more casual friendly appealing game.
 
Euphoric

Euphoric

MKX
TectonicSuperPlates said:
And it's evident that those posting are the one's who hit 15 hit combos as easily as they do wiping their own butts after dropping a deuce.

Instead of thinking logically and critically, analyzing exactly what it is casuals go through, they crack jokes and think they are funny amongst their own elitist buddies.

Remember kids, elitists used to be casuals themselves. They are just too full of themselves now to remember.

Is this why video game players get so much hate? Because those players are total assholes?

Seriously. It's like everything that I have posted in this thread is brushed aside and ignored. Why? Because I see it differently? And there are others that agree with me as well about this game appealing to casuals. Never once does the majority automatically mean the authority. Because if this game did appeal to casuals as everyone says it does, no one would be complaining exactly how much it doesn't. It would be a unanimous decision, but it isn't. Those that don't complain, again, are the elitists who land the 15-hit combos.

It's even easier to land combos in MvC3 than it is in Injustice. That's why it's a much more casual friendly appealing game.
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We were casuals, but we learned and continued playing, not cry and whine I can't do it, I learned until I can do it.
 
cyke_out

cyke_out

Noob
The point of a combo is to reward you with an opportunity to deliver guaranteed damage. to get that guaranteed damage, you have to know how to open up an opponent or punish their mistakes. and that is it. If you lack the spacing and knowledge to open up the opponent, then that combo knowledge is useless.

Having guaranteed windows for huge damage is not new. SF2 did the same damned thing, only the huge damage was from throws, and simple 2-in-1's that took off a grip of damage. Most small combo's in SF2 did the same ratio of damage as most fighting game nowadays. what makes the longer combo's better is that each added complexity in a combo input, it increases the chance of the offensive player dropping the combo and allowing the defender who had poor play get out for less damage than he should.

If anything, long combo's help players escape damage facing players of lower execution skill. So two players of average skill will be dropping combo's left and right giving them free out of jail cards. Now if these players face someone better, then of course they should get beat, and that is the point to have the better player win.
 
ApertureBlack

ApertureBlack

The Only Player On The Wii U
Interactables, Zoner Heavy gameplay, Jump In Friendly, and Batman Gods Among Us make the game very easy for casuals to pick up and play.

I will say that the Zoner heavy gametype turns off a lot of people.
 
MorbidAltruism

MorbidAltruism

Get over here!
cyke_out said:
The point of a combo is to reward you with an opportunity to deliver guaranteed damage. to get that guaranteed damage, you have to know how to open up an opponent or punish their mistakes. and that is it. If you lack the spacing and knowledge to open up the opponent, then that combo knowledge is useless.

Having guaranteed windows for huge damage is not new. SF2 did the same damned thing, only the huge damage was from throws, and simple 2-in-1's that took off a grip of damage. Most small combo's in SF2 did the same ratio of damage as most fighting game nowadays. what makes the longer combo's better is that each added complexity in a combo input, it increases the chance of the offensive player dropping the combo and allowing the defender who had poor play get out for less damage than he should.

If anything, long combo's help players escape damage facing players of lower execution skill. So two players of average skill will be dropping combo's left and right giving them free out of jail cards. Now if these players face someone better, then of course they should get beat, and that is the point to have the better player win.
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Tell that to Cyrax. :REO
 
TectonicSuperPlates

TectonicSuperPlates

Learn to draw the Rob Liefeld way
Karried said:
We were casuals, but we learned and continued playing, not cry and whine I can't do it, I learned until I can do it.
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Again, questioning does not lie in criticism or whining. It lies in understanding.

You seriously don't think I haven't tried to perform and perfect 15 hit combos? I have. It's difficult. And you all make it sound so easy.

I'm here to learn how to get better. Not bash those who can do it. But you are all falling into that "bash me for doing it" circle because of how you are approaching the question. Injustice will not appeal to casuals in the long-run, and you all think it will.

I don't care if you can perform 15 hit combos. Excellent for you.
 
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