Big Question No1 is seeming to bring up!! MKX tournament rules wise.

[Eric The Scruffy]

Why do people assume there will be counter picks built into everyone? Like unless you are playing lackey Torr and fighting a commando Kano, you should be fine.

30 characters in the game x3 styles = 90 different variations total. I honestly don't think I would have faith in any game designer to ensure that all possible permutations only lose 6-4 at the absolute worst. Maybe I'm wrong and NRS will achieve it, but does anyone really think that's likely?
My nightmare scenario hopefully won't come to pass and my solution is admittedly probably too preemptive, but I think we should be prepared to accept that there's likely to be a *lot* of hard counters in this game. Some variations are very likely going to *dominate* others severely when all is said and done.

 

[Doombawkz]

30 characters in the game x3 styles = 90 different variations total. I honestly don't think I would have faith in any game designer to ensure that all possible permutations only lose 6-4 at the absolute worst. Maybe I'm wrong and NRS will achieve it, but does anyone really think that's likely?
My nightmare scenario hopefully won't come to pass and my solution is admittedly probably too preemptive, but I think we should be prepared to accept that there's likely to be a *lot* of hard counters in this game. Some variations are very likely going to *dominate* others severely when all is said and done.

While there's 90 different styles, it's unlikely someone will be expertly proficient at 90 different styles. Most likely you'll have a dealing of 6 styles at the most, maybe 9. I'd bet that out of those 9 styles, you're unlikely to have every style have a 7-3 contained in several characters.

If you do, you should probably learn a different style, but it's like Bane losing 3-7 to Zatanna. Sure, that's bad, but it's unlikely I'll be running into a zatanna at the top level.

Basically, I'm doubtful you'll have more than a handful 7-3 against certain characters from your own. And it's highly unlikely that you'll be countered by more than one style. Odds are, the styles will add a bit of diversity but probably won't make or break MUs to the point where the core mechanics become invalid.

 

[Eric The Scruffy]

While there's 90 different styles, it's unlikely someone will be expertly proficient at 90 different styles. Most likely you'll have a dealing of 6 styles at the most, maybe 9. I'd bet that out of those 9 styles, you're unlikely to have every style have a 7-3 contained in several characters.

If you do, you should probably learn a different style, but it's like Bane losing 3-7 to Zatanna. Sure, that's bad, but it's unlikely I'll be running into a zatanna at the top level.

Basically, I'm doubtful you'll have more than a handful 7-3 against certain characters from your own. And it's highly unlikely that you'll be countered by more than one style. Odds are, the styles will add a bit of diversity but probably won't make or break MUs to the point where the core mechanics become invalid.

Well....that's the optimistic perspective.

 

[Doombawkz]

Well....that's the optimistic perspective.

Well you have to accept that the only difference between characters is literally 3 or 4 special moves, and maybe some frames.
Barring specialist characters (Zatanna) who have some slant MUs, it'll probably come down to 6-4 at the worst, but characters will still maintain their core things.

Basically, Displacer Raiden might 7-3 Hollywood Cassie, but he'll probably get beat by like... swarm queen D'vorah 7-3.
Otherwise? It'll be more along the lines of "raiden beats X" Rather than "Thunder God Raiden beats X" or "Thunder God Raiden beats so-and-so X" imo.

 

[Eric The Scruffy]

Well you have to accept that the only difference between characters is literally 3 or 4 special moves, and maybe some frames.
Barring specialist characters (Zatanna) who have some slant MUs, it'll probably come down to 6-4 at the worst, but characters will still maintain their core things.

Basically, Displacer Raiden might 7-3 Hollywood Cassie, but he'll probably get beat by like... swarm queen D'vorah 7-3.
Otherwise? It'll be more along the lines of "raiden beats X" Rather than "Thunder God Raiden beats X" or "Thunder God Raiden beats so-and-so X" imo.

I'm sorry but I just flat out don't agree. Part of what makes balancing a fighting game so inherently difficult from my perspective is that it can often be the smallest thing that defines a characters strength or weakness...and often the implications of it can be difficult to see. Even though I argue against variation lock, I will admit that its proponents have a point when they say that it makes matchups very different. Either way we won't know until at least after a year (and maybe never with this community)...but I really don't want this game to devolve into high level counterpicking with variations.

 

[Doombawkz]

I'm sorry but I just flat out don't agree. Part of what makes balancing a fighting game so inherently difficult from my perspective is that it can often be the smallest thing that defines a characters strength or weakness...and often the implications of it can be difficult to see. Even though I argue against variation lock, I will admit that its proponents have a point when they say that it makes matchups very different. Either way we won't know until at least after a year (and maybe never with this community)...but I really don't want this game to devolve into high level counterpicking with variations.

I doubt it will. Worst come to, we go barebones

 

[Barrogh]

Lock winner in everything.

We can't have counterpicking scenarios after every match. Where's the skill then? There are generic moves and tools you can count on even on a bad matchup. I mean if someone irrelevant with the case reads this thread he would think variations are an auto-pilot option or something

It's a FIGHTING game, not a turn-based rpg (don't get me wrong I love pokemon... till 3rd gen... max)

Tbh MK is often called "a turn-based game among FGs".
Locking winner in everything doesn't mean that it won't somehow be counterpick fest, it only means that loser is the only one to counterpick, just like it has always been.

Counterpicks will only be less relevant if:
- matchups aren't grinded out enough;
- focusing on a single character really hard is much more benefical than having a backup character, everyone has important tools and fundamentals are way stronger than gimmicks (neither of these was true for any NRS game so far);
- everything is so damn balanced (never happened in practice).

Why do people assume there will be counter picks built into everyone? Like unless you are playing lackey Torr and fighting a commando Kano, you should be fine.

You're basically saying that "unless you're playing against your counterpick, you should be fine"

I doubt it will. Worst come to, we go barebones

Which, to be honest, doesn't automatically ensure that there will be more even MUs. Barebones are still characters that may or may not otherwise be reliant on variation-specific tools, which will affect their potential without them.

Otherwise? It'll be more along the lines of "raiden beats X" Rather than "Thunder God Raiden beats X" or "Thunder God Raiden beats so-and-so X" imo.

So far it's pretty rare PoV here, I must admit.