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Question - Sub-Zero Best competitive variation of sz?

dvtr-

Noob
I am still trying to decide on a main. Subzero has always appealed to me since i was a kid playing mk3 on sega. Is anyone maining subzero here with some good success? What variation are you using?
 
most people will say grandmaster...imo grandmaster and unbreakable fill the semi similar role (semi, not strictly)

cryomancer is quite a bit different.

it sorta depends on the matchup tho. grandmaster has a much worse time vs people who have non meter options out of clones. like multi hit projectiles or teleports. not that they cant beat him, you just have to be much more weary.

that said, cryomancer can deal with teleporters by simply not needing to be in the corner to do a lot of damage.

imo grandmaster+cryomancer covers a LOT of ground for character matchups. the real question i dont know is how competitive will work. are you allowed to change variations? are you allowed to know what your opponent is going to pick to counter pick? i dont know
 

ShArp

Dedicated Broly main
Maining Unbreakable and I can't get enough of it. Basically 24/7 rushdowns to corner and ice shield freeze on opponents counter attacks / expected wakeups.
Ice aura is great for 0 chip damage and on top of that EX version reduces dmg you take.

I also used to love Cryomancer for it's enchanced combos and bigger damage at mid/corners but Unbreakable is my #1pick. I just love it. Lots of people ignore that variation but its really great if you know how to use it.
 
Maining Unbreakable and I can't get enough of it. Basically 24/7 rushdowns to corner and ice shield freeze on opponents counter attacks / expected wakeups.
Ice aura is great for 0 chip damage and on top of that EX version reduces dmg you take.

I also used to love Cryomancer for it's enchanced combos and bigger damage at mid/corners but Unbreakable is my #1pick. I just love it. Lots of people ignore that variation but its really great if you know how to use it.
you should enlighten us. because right now it seems grandmaster is the only real clear cut direction.

unbreakable off the cuff seems like grandmaster light with a no chip mechanic

cryomancer seems like "hey i want to be rushdown let me be rushdown" without actually being it. ive been trying to figure out the optimal things to try to do after F+4,2,grab since it puts you at freaking neutral and far enough away all your fastest starters are out of range. if anything it seems to put him at a disadvantage.
 

ShArp

Dedicated Broly main
@Absinthesize it's I how play. Usally when using Unbreakable I rushdown everyone to corner and that's pretty much game over for them because of my 50/50 low/overhead combo starters. When I see that they have meter to wake up I expect their counter attack, so if I time it right I freeze them with the shield and continue corner attacks. That's how I won 90% of my fights with Unbreakable variation.

But thats just me and How it works for me. The beauty of this variation is that it works just as good in defense with normal/EX aura against other rushdown characters.

Grandmaster is obviously the most used variation because of it's "classic SZ" gameplay. But meh, in tired of it and Unbreakable is something fresh to explore.

So far on Steam, without myself, I have seen only ONE player who plays it (@Braindead )
Otherwise online is full of Cryos and Grandmasters.
 
@Absinthesize it's I how play. Usally when using Unbreakable I rushdown everyone to corner and that's pretty much game over for them because of my 50/50 low/overhead combo starters. When I see that they have meter to wake up I expect their counter attack, so if I time it right I freeze them with the shield and continue corner attacks. That's how I won 90% of my fights with Unbreakable variation.

But thats just me and How it works for me. The beauty of this variation is that it works just as good in defense with normal/EX aura against other rushdown characters.

Grandmaster is obviously the most used variation because of it's "classic SZ" gameplay. But meh, in tired of it and Unbreakable is something fresh to explore.

So far on Steam, without myself, I have seen only ONE player who plays it (@Braindead )
Otherwise online is full of Cryos and Grandmasters.
low damage rushdown lol. sweet. i suppose with the anti chip/lower damage he could potentially beat rushdown at there own game. but without cryomancer you have like...1 overhead. i guess they still have to semi guess tho.
 
U can easily do ~17-29% mid combos, and when in the corner there's a garantue meterless 28%(low starter) - 32%(overhead) combos. Ofc you can go above that.
i usually say if your not hitting 30% the damage is low. but again thats me. i dont have a problem with it tho. would be dumb to do high damage while taking less/negating chip damage and having freeze counters.
 
you should enlighten us. because right now it seems grandmaster is the only real clear cut direction.

unbreakable off the cuff seems like grandmaster light with a no chip mechanic

cryomancer seems like "hey i want to be rushdown let me be rushdown" without actually being it. ive been trying to figure out the optimal things to try to do after F+4,2,grab since it puts you at freaking neutral and far enough away all your fastest starters are out of range. if anything it seems to put him at a disadvantage.
i started reading the thread and read this post, somehow i knew it was you. Neutral game man, mix it up. Don't do one specific thing unless it keeps working. if you land the counter jump convert it into a corner push or another command grab... there is no one glorified way to answer. Sub zero has options that can be used based on what the opponent is doing, if he is jumping a lot probably do an anti air, if he is playing a teleporter probably do a D4 poke to stagger them back and block for a full punish... it is literally rock paper scissors. Read each fight, pay attention to how the other player is playing his character. if you want to be entirely safe then do D4 poke. chip damage if they block and a few % if unblocked. safe, chip damage adds up, and if they do block low you can overhead, there is no reward without risk... cryo has more risk but far better reward for that risk. GM can be countered out of its BnB corner for one bar. Mid game is relevant if you play someone who does not get scared of an ice clone. if you want a generally safe Sub zero you need to play GM or Unbreakable
 

Bidu

the CHILL of DESPAIR
Maining Unbreakable and I can't get enough of it. Basically 24/7 rushdowns to corner and ice shield freeze on opponents counter attacks / expected wakeups.
Ice aura is great for 0 chip damage and on top of that EX version reduces dmg you take.

I also used to love Cryomancer for it's enchanced combos and bigger damage at mid/corners but Unbreakable is my #1pick. I just love it. Lots of people ignore that variation but its really great if you know how to use it.
I'm yet to see any half decent Unbreakable Sub-Zero. There's any footage of you streaming or something? I was kinda disappointed when I saw the the ice shield doesn't freeze jump in attacks. But when I discovered it could punish between some strings then I understood it's full potencial.


U can easily do ~17-29% mid combos, and when in the corner there's a garantue meterless 28%(low starter) - 32%(overhead) combos. Ofc you can go above that.
That's still pretty fucking low. Probably lower than the entire cast. Even lower than Grandmaster Sub-Zero, man. lol
 

Durango

Enhancer
I'm a huge fan of Cryomancer. I LOVE Cold Blooded because of the mixup potential. Cryomancer Sub-Zero > MK9 Sub-Zero.

HOWEVER, I have not yet practiced with the other two styles. I plan to do so, but I'm still trying to figure out what I'm doing what Cryomancer and the more intimate parts of the style, such as starters with EX Hammer.
 

ShArp

Dedicated Broly main
I'm yet to see any half decent Unbreakable Sub-Zero. There's any footage of you streaming or something? I was kinda disappointed when I saw the the ice shield doesn't freeze jump in attacks. But when I discovered it could punish between some strings then I understood it's full potencial.
You can check some recent Unbreakable gameplay videos here http://testyourmight.com/threads/post-your-online-offline-matches-here-all-variations.50616/#post-1699535 (we are discussing and learning this variation as the game is still very early)
That's still pretty fucking low. Probably lower than the entire cast. Even lower than Grandmaster Sub-Zero, man. lol
That's why there's a Cryomancer variation if u are all up for pure mid/corner damage. However none of the other variations, except Unbreakable, has ability to gain 0 chip damage (+low dmg on hit with EX aura) and ability to parry expected wakeups attacks or even better -parry opponent in the middle of their strings.
Over all SZ looks like a very solid character with lots of potential in each variation. One might lack certain ability in one variation, but at the same time have some other sick stuff.
 

Durango

Enhancer
you should enlighten us. because right now it seems grandmaster is the only real clear cut direction.

unbreakable off the cuff seems like grandmaster light with a no chip mechanic

cryomancer seems like "hey i want to be rushdown let me be rushdown" without actually being it. ive been trying to figure out the optimal things to try to do after F+4,2,grab since it puts you at freaking neutral and far enough away all your fastest starters are out of range. if anything it seems to put him at a disadvantage.
Except for one thing. It's not a rushdown style. It's a balanced style.

Sub-Zero has rushdown elements on all three of his styles thanks to F4 and B2. However, Cryomancer gives Sub-Zero access to two devastating moves that allow him to utilize defense as well as pressure.

1) Uppercut (D2). This gives him additional reach against players who enjoy trying to space him out. This is also a potent mixup after Cold Blooded with plenty of Hit Advantage needed for a followup as well as the spacing needed to possibly avoid a full punish.
2) EX Hammer. This is perhaps Sub-Zero's greatest pressure tool as he can use it from a low (B33) or his greatest normal attacks to cover ground, F4 2. He can come up close in an instant using the attack. You can hit-confirm their block, and thus use the Hammer if they're blocking low, or a Slide if they're blocking high. In the case of the former, you can chain it right into a 36% damage combo which can then be reset into another mixup thanks to the way Cold Blooded leaves the enemy in stun.

I was getting battered by a Mileena player who utilized great spacing until I started to bring the offense to him. Using F4, I covered ground, and he had constant trouble getting around Hammer and Slide. When you're not going in full-offense, you can throw an Ice Ball or duck-block and Uppercut when they start to get closer or are getting too happy to jump-in at you.
 

JDM

Noob
Cryomancer is redundant as fuck, does slightly more damage at the cost of a weaker neutral game. Unbreakable is good but weaker than Grandmaster. Once Grandmaster gets nerfed I wouldn't be surprised if unbreakable becomes the best choice.
 
I dont feel grandmaster will get nerfed and cryomancer can easily get 1 meter at the cost of 1 bar and yes i agree with you @JDM with unbreakable...i do completly respect your opinion tho it is valid it just depends on how someone plays the char and that variation .btw the only safe thing about grandmaster is f4 cancel iceclone all other options are punishable on or offline as brady said it is true has been tested as I have but most people dont know how to punish or react in this game yet as its still new but has a long community life as I can tell
 
I'm a huge fan of Cryomancer. I LOVE Cold Blooded because of the mixup potential. Cryomancer Sub-Zero > MK9 Sub-Zero.

HOWEVER, I have not yet practiced with the other two styles. I plan to do so, but I'm still trying to figure out what I'm doing what Cryomancer and the more intimate parts of the style, such as starters with EX Hammer.
I play cryo main, but learned and actively practice grandmaster on a lot of match ups. Truth be told they both have a solid rush down. you have the ability to turtle behind clone in Gm, and almost all of his combos are strong corner pushers, and thet is where sub zero thrives. Cryo has dat damage doe, and the restand into neutral, is equally decent tech. Your punishes are also a lot more severe on cryo. I think after you do branch out to GM you will respect them both for what they are and use them when their strngths come into play, I.E GM when someone picks LK, and just laugh, and Cryo when someone goes full auto jaq, and laugh... it is all about the match up
 

matmusada

Lin Kuei Initiate
I feel that Sub-Zero is one of the few characters whose variations all offer something in the way of versatility, flavor, and balance. After trying out all three styles I can honestly say that none of his styles are throwaway and I don't think that can be said about a lot of characters in this game.