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Another Sektor Observation (long read)

Robotic

Gentleman.
Back in the Lab with Sektor and I've noticed something else. Maybe I'm on the late train with this and if I am, I'm fine with that. Skip this entirely if it's not your cup of tea.

1. An observation on the hitboxes in this game.

Not unlike a lot of you, I was playing SF4 and SSF4 before MK9 came out. In the study of those hitboxes and hittable boxes, the game is programmed to read via squares and rectangles. Hands and heads are naturally not like this, but this is how fighting games are for the most part and by extension, what we are most used to. Let's use the dragon punch as an example. Once in flight, there is an invisible rectangle that, if the opponent gets caught in it, will take the dragon punch hit. There is also a small hittable box where one can knock someone out of the dragon punch. On occasion, these boxes will extend out farther than the actual limb or what-have-you, and other times, it will appear to end well before it should. An example of this, IIRC, would be Ryu's crouching medium kick. The move seems to extend very far, but the hitbox falls short of Ryu's actual foot. This is done for balance purposes, I imagine; just because a move is animated in a certain way, it does not mean the hit/hittable box needs to be literal. They draw it first, like how it looks and adjust the boxes accordingly.

Now, why is this important?

In studying MK9, I've noticed the hitboxes do not operate under the square/rectangle ruleset often seen in fighting games. Instead, MK9 takes things to a literal level by not having "boxes"at all, they use the actual character. Simply put, the area that is active to hit and be hit is the body itself; it does not go farther or shorter. The hittable area is the actual character and not an invisible box.

Let's look back at SSF4 for a moment. When the round begins, whether the characters are hopping, leaning or taunting in the resting position, the box is unaffected; it treats the character as if it is in a set point in the stage and the hitbox/hittable box will not move along with the natural sway of the character. If the character hops while it is naturally at rest like Cammy or moves it's shoulders like Zangief, the boxes will not.

MK9 is not like this. The body is the "box". Take the Black Dragon for example: Kano leans back and forward in his resting position. If he leans forward, my range in certain attacks appear to be greater. If Kano leans back, the opposite is true. The truth of the matter is, The character itself, leaning forward and back, is constantly changing his position and, therefore, changing his hittable "box". It is only what is tangible on the screen that matters to MK9.

2. How it pertains to Sektor
I want to preface this by saying I don't think this should be done for beginning Sektor players. Due to the observations made in the first entry, I've started using D4 as an anti air - and it is BAD ASS. Sektor's toe pops up and his body (hittable box) get's low to the ground. It's not unlike an upside-down tack. In certain distances, this move can be considered as your go-to anti air, though it will take some practice to judge when to do this.

Now, why should this be a go to anti air in some situations when I can use flame thrower?

Remember, this is only certain distances we're talking. I'm thinking just outside of sweep range to a little farther, otherwise a jump kick from a closer distance will avoid your toe and hit you on the head. (As to why someone would jump in on Sektor from here, that is irrelevant to the discussion as I am merely offering suggestions on what to do against competion and preparation for scenarios, however unlikely they may be. It will happen, though.) The reason to use this as an anti air is because it can be cancelled into TU and combos are possible. Due to the negative edge, pressing 4 again is unnecessary. One can easily get 34% off of someone jumping in on you. Another reason to use D4 as an anti air is that you can cancel into upmissile. I believe the upmissile is unavoidable as I have yet to see someone avoid it and pressure can be applied to your liking, but don't quote me yet on that until more testing is done. Quick Edit: This also prevents Sektor from meeting someone in the air and putting themselves in a 50/50 situation where the faster reaction beats the other with a jump kick. Sektor's love the jump kick into TU, after all.

Hopefully this is useful to some of you in some way as it was to me.
 

SwiftTomHanks

missiles are coming
Wait wait wait wait! You can D4 into TU?! I'd be willing to be an arm that you can not.

Someone the other day said that you can 2,1 into TU... which you can't.

Using d4 as anti air is nice, I'm not taking anything away from you. Lowering your hit box is a great ability. I'm just not too sure about d4 going into.... anything. It gives advantage on hit, and allows Sektor to dash in for a 1,2,b1. Perhaps it lets you get a free up missile off, but your recovery time is so slow that I'm not sure it's worth it on a lot of characters.
 

Tong Lung

What is a breaker?
I just picked up sektor and this seems like a very interesting observation, I'll make sure to utilize the d4 as an anti air attack from now on.
I also didn't know about the hitboxes, thanks for sharing this info!
 

Robotic

Gentleman.
Wait wait wait wait! You can D4 into TU?! I'd be willing to be an arm that you can not.

Someone the other day said that you can 2,1 into TU... which you can't.

Using d4 as anti air is nice, I'm not taking anything away from you. Lowering your hit box is a great ability. I'm just not too sure about d4 going into.... anything. It gives advantage on hit, and allows Sektor to dash in for a 1,2,b1. Perhaps it lets you get a free up missile off, but your recovery time is so slow that I'm not sure it's worth it on a lot of characters.
TU from a D4 on an a grounded opponent, hell no. Cancel into TU after a successful D4 anti air? Hell yes. Unquestionable.
 

spongebob

ಠ__ಠ
how good is sektor standing 4 as an anti air? Its not exactly going to lower your hitbox but the range seems pretty nice, or is pretty much the same as doing jk TU? I know one advantage 4 has over that is theres no need to hit confirm and have TU come out and get blocked.
 

Altaire

Noob
Is this even remotely hit-confirmable, though? What's the margin for error? I can see this being potentially useful, but if there's any risk of the telepunch being blocked, it's going to be more trouble than it's worth.
 

SwiftTomHanks

missiles are coming
Not to derail your topic. But on a standing opponent you can 2,1, tu and it counts as a 3 hit combo?! I've tried this for over a month now and it has never worked for me.

Disclaimer: I'm a good Mortal Kombat player, and not retarded.

-----

Back on topic:

Ok, I thought you meant that you could d4 on the ground into TU. How often does D4 connect to someone while in the air versus D1, which can then go into a standing 1, then TU. I'm not trying to disagree with you, I think that if D4 is somewhat hit confirmable and reliable that it is way better than d1 since d1 does shit for your hit box.
 

Robotic

Gentleman.
Is this even remotely hit-confirmable, though? What's the margin for error? I can see this being potentially useful, but if there's any risk of the telepunch being blocked, it's going to be more trouble than it's worth.
Test it for your own conclusion as I could always miss something, but here is my test:

Opponent jumps in, D4 catches them as Anti Air and NOT as a grounded opponent. Negative edge down forward and will ALWAYS hit. Let's say you tried D4 and it whiffed for whatever reason, TU will not come out. TU only comes out if D4 connects, which is pretty sweet.

I advise to practice this if it sounds practical to any of you because the distance and timing is important. It is not exactly strict, but if one is not careful they will D4 too late and end up hitting a grounded opponent, TU will come out since it reads the hit connection and TU can easily be blocked. Once you are used to the distance and not-overly-strict timing, there is little to no risk involved.

Quick Edit: I should say even if blocked, TU will not come out. D4 must connect as a hit in order for TU to come out. Again, pretty sweet.
 

spongebob

ಠ__ಠ
If your using it right as an anti air then there should be no chance your tp gets blocked. Your not in the air so TU will only come out if d4 hits and your not hitting them grounded either so that won't be a problem.

@Swifttomhanks Yes 21 TU does and always has worked. Not very useful though when you have 12b1 which is much better and safe. I've heard some people say 21 has more range than 12b1 so 21 TU is the better punisher for certain moves but they both have the same short range imo.
 

Altaire

Noob
The better use for his 2 1 is as a mixup, because you can safely repeat 2 1, then finish the string with 2 1 4 or 2 1 throw. IIRC, most attacks can't interrupt the 4.
 

SwiftTomHanks

missiles are coming
That's so crazy I can do the more advanced moves in this game and can not hit 2 buttons into a special. I'm going to have to go strait to the lab and settle this once and for all.

The only reason I think it is useful is what Altaire said - it adds something to the 2,1 mixup. I really like pressuring with 1,2 then 2,1,4 (or 2,1 ~ 2,1,throw).
 

Sentry_Gun

Target Acquired
That's so crazy I can do the more advanced moves in this game and can not hit 2 buttons into a special. I'm going to have to go strait to the lab and settle this once and for all.

The only reason I think it is useful is what Altaire said - it adds something to the 2,1 mixup. I really like pressuring with 1,2 then 2,1,4 (or 2,1 ~ 2,1,throw).
Yup, lol. 2,1 is my favorite Sektor string I love the way it looks and the mixups it allows.
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
Wait wait wait wait! You can D4 into TU?! I'd be willing to be an arm that you can not.

Someone the other day said that you can 2,1 into TU... which you can't.

Using d4 as anti air is nice, I'm not taking anything away from you. Lowering your hit box is a great ability. I'm just not too sure about d4 going into.... anything. It gives advantage on hit, and allows Sektor to dash in for a 1,2,b1. Perhaps it lets you get a free up missile off, but your recovery time is so slow that I'm not sure it's worth it on a lot of characters.
you can 2,1 into teleport uppercut. You've been able to since the game came out, you may wanna check that.

EDIT: just realised youve already been corrected, my mistake.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
So basically ur saying d4 is anti air? its the same for everybody when at the right distance, nearly every move can be turned into anti air, its just situational
 
Wait wait wait wait! You can D4 into TU?! I'd be willing to be an arm that you can not.

Someone the other day said that you can 2,1 into TU... which you can't.

Using d4 as anti air is nice, I'm not taking anything away from you. Lowering your hit box is a great ability. I'm just not too sure about d4 going into.... anything. It gives advantage on hit, and allows Sektor to dash in for a 1,2,b1. Perhaps it lets you get a free up missile off, but your recovery time is so slow that I'm not sure it's worth it on a lot of characters.
you can combo 21~TU

its one of sektors highest possible midscreens

JiP 21~TU b21 b34 TU - 39%

*excuse my ignorance! didnt see the other posters of 'omg you cvan totally combo 21!'
 

Altaire

Noob
you can combo 21~TU

its one of sektors highest possible midscreens

JiP 21~TU b21 b34 TU - 39%

*excuse my ignorance! didnt see the other posters of 'omg you cvan totally combo 21!'
Wow, I didn't realize there was a hit confirmable way to get the B2 1 into B3 4 setup; I've only ever done it off the B2. This is definitely a nice find.
 

IKizzLE

BloodHound
You can also do b2 into TU, which does even more damage.
JiP b2~TU b21 b34 TU does 41%

And b2 has good range and can punish moves you wouldn't think possible and if you just do b2, a lot of people just stand their and wait for the second part to come out, so then you can go into a mid low mixup or a throw.

And why would you use d4 as anti air when d1 has a far larger hit box, is faster and you can get a nice combo. One of the top of my head....
d1 anti-air, 12~TU,b34,TU

I have a lot of Sektor tech kept under wraps so far but maybe I'll post a video sooner or later. I also believe pig of the hut has some videos of me vs him.
 

Robotic

Gentleman.
D1 also has a larger hittable "box". D4 extends out a little farther and it drops your hittable "box" very low to the ground. The actual hit "box" is the toe pointing up - this virtually guarantees that under certain distances it cannot be beat. The fact that TU won't even come out unless it's confirmed as a hit is a nice perk as well. I placed box in parentheses as it is not an actual box we are talking about - hopefully you read the full 1st post.

I tested this some more and it is still a nice thing to have in the back pocket.
 

spongebob

ಠ__ಠ
Quick Edit: I should say even if blocked, TU will not come out. D4 must connect as a hit in order for TU to come out. Again, pretty sweet.
Just a correction: TU will come out on block as will any normal that can cancel into a special. Still that doesn't really matter.

But yh I've accidentally done this after d4 hits an airborne opponent and then dashing forward which gave me a TU due to negative edge. I havn't used it that much but it seems very good to me. With meter you get 34% of an anti air and its not as risky as try to predict jump in's and beating them with jk TU.

Besides using flame from midscreen this might be a good thing to replace uppercut with. D4 comes out fast enough and if it lowers your hitbox that much then it will avoid jip and crossups as well whilst leading into a combo. Its definately a useful tool.

Good find roboitc.
 

Robotic

Gentleman.
Just a correction: TU will come out on block as will any normal that can cancel into a special. Still that doesn't really matter.

But yh I've accidentally done this after d4 hits an airborne opponent and then dashing forward which gave me a TU due to negative edge. I havn't used it that much but it seems very good to me. With meter you get 34% of an anti air and its not as risky as try to predict jump in's and beating them with jk TU.

Besides using flame from midscreen this might be a good thing to replace uppercut with. D4 comes out fast enough and if it lowers your hitbox that much then it will avoid jip and crossups as well whilst leading into a combo. Its definately a useful tool.

Good find roboitc.
I'm at work so if someone can please try this and get back to us, but I believe the D4, when blocked, will disallow the cancel into TU.

As far as replacing Uppercut: because Sektor's uppercut goes straight up, it has a specific window of opportunity. D4's window is farther out and better used at a farther distance. Attempting to replace uppercut with D4 may cause you to get hit out of it because they are sailing past your toe and kicking you square in the head. From farther out, it is virtually impossible for you to get hit while you have crouched so low and your toe is pointing up like a stalactite. Take the character hit "box" literally - I don't know how many players actually know this yet.