Question A place for Technical Questions

[WiseM0nkey]

I mean if im doing pressure i cant sit and bate the armoured reversal cause its a command grab

if they know the MU and the holes in your pressure you pretty much know when they'll try to armor

 

[Xxonemanwolfpax]

somebody tell me how to put my variation under my name XD

 

[countrypistol]

I mean if im doing pressure i cant sit and bate the armoured reversal cause its a command grab

I'm 99% sure back dashes are throw immune, so you could bait a command grab by back dashing, but at the cost of pressure. I suppose if you know that the opponent will be option selecting the grab and he has meter it's a fair gamble, but you'd have to test it against the AI to see if it'll work.

 

[dotunderscore]

Empty jumps have no recovery.

Thanks for this - it was driving me crazy. I set the CPU to jump/auto block and just tried to D4 and it was impossible.

You will even get weird visuals where the leg will go through the jumper on land but they won't get hit. I am guessing this is because the active frame has passed.

 

[Zoidberg747]

@FireBreather

This is the thread you're talking about in the OP:

http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/mkx-glossary-of-terms.55418/

No idea why your tag didnt work.

 

[Lord Beef]

damn this makes so much sense lol. Thanks alot.

A good way to simplify this down, is just think of it like this:

This character has a 50/50 in this particular situation, is the low or OH faster? If the former, when you run into that situation, block low for a moment then release down, doing the opposite if the OH is faster. After that, like FireBreather said, it's just a matter of polishing up the timing and muscle memory. One thing to note, which has not been mentioned, is the meta-game around fuzzy guarding -

If I have a fuzzyable 50 50, and I know that you know that. Perhaps when I am + frames and ready to go for my 50/50, I may delay the faster option by a few frames to catch your block transition from low to high or high to low. So if my low is faster than my OH, and I think you're fuzzying my mix ups. I will stop doing it on the first available frame, and then start delaying my low. It then will hit you as you let go of down to fuzzy the possible overhead.

The moral of the story, is practice getting the timing down, but don't get too comfortable in doing it in a match as it still carries significant risk if your opponent catches on, or if they play with fuzzy guarding in mind the whole time and always slightly vary when they press a button. Once the meta gets to that point, you're either back to straight up guessing, utilizing another option other than block, or risking thing a little more and trying to poke out of the situation if they are giving up + frames for delaying their mix up to blow up your fuzzy guard.

Just make sure you're keeping all of this in mind and not leaning too hard on fuzzy guarding. In the end, it's still a read and can get you blown up.

 

[WiseM0nkey]

A good way to simplify this down, is just think of it like this:

This character has a 50/50 in this particular situation, is the low or OH faster? If the former, when you run into that situation, block low for a moment then release down, doing the opposite if the OH is faster. After that, like FireBreather said, it's just a matter of polishing up the timing and muscle memory. One thing to note, which has not been mentioned, is the meta-game around fuzzy guarding -

If I have a fuzzyable 50 50, and I know that you know that. Perhaps when I am + frames and ready to go for my 50/50, I may delay the faster option by a few frames to catch your block transition from low to high or high to low. So if my low is faster than my OH, and I think you're fuzzying my mix ups. I will stop doing it on the first available frame, and then start delaying my low. It then will hit you as you let go of down to fuzzy the possible overhead.

The moral of the story, is practice getting the timing down, but don't get too comfortable in doing it in a match as it still carries significant risk if your opponent catches on, or if they play with fuzzy guarding in mind the whole time and always slightly vary when they press a button. Once the meta gets to that point, you're either back to straight up guessing, utilizing another option other than block, or risking thing a little more and trying to poke out of the situation if they are giving up + frames for delaying their mix up to blow up your fuzzy guard.

Just make sure you're keeping all of this in mind and not leaning too hard on fuzzy guarding. In the end, it's still a read and can get you blown up.

tbh there's no such thing as delaying the low and mix up the timing.

as Johnny, for instance, you cant delay the low of 113, timing will be the same cause it's part of the string, so you're fuzzy guarding 100% of the time with no guess

 

[Shawnzzy]

somebody tell me how to put my variation under my name XD

It is under your avatar picture, before you have a character selected the clickable space is very small. Just run your mouse around that area until it looks clickable.

 

[Xxonemanwolfpax]

It is under your avatar picture, before you have a character selected the clickable space is very small. Just run your mouse around that area until it looks clickable.

dude i may not be looking in the right place but i cant find it

 

[Xxonemanwolfpax]

It is under your avatar picture, before you have a character selected the clickable space is very small. Just run your mouse around that area until it looks clickable.

thanks i found it i really appreciate it

 

[Braindead]

tbh there's no such thing as delaying the low and mix up the timing.

as Johnny, for instance, you cant delay the low of 113, timing will be the same cause it's part of the string, so you're fuzzy guarding 100% of the time with no guess

There is, but not in all mixups.

For example with Impostor Shinnok. After the restand he can go for low or overhead. The low comes out in 7f but the OH comes out in 18. So the natural fuzzy attempt would be to block low then block high. But the Shinnok player can wait for a moment, then go for the low. That will catch you trying to fuzzy the mixup since you're going to block high if he didn't immediately go for the low.

This mixup delay stuff usually works with standing resets, but can also work with other things like some knockdowns or Sub-zero's jip mixups for example.

 

[WiseM0nkey]

There is, but not in all mixups.

For example with Impostor Shinnok. After the restand he can go for low or overhead. The low comes out in 7f but the OH comes out in 18. So the natural fuzzy attempt would be to block low then block high. But the Shinnok player can wait for a moment, then go for the low. That will catch you trying to fuzzy the mixup since you're going to block high if he didn't immediately go for the low.

This mixup delay stuff usually works with standing resets, but can also work with other things like some knockdowns or Sub-zero's jip mixups for example.

oh i get it yes, but isnt fuzzy guarding a mathematical method to block the Low/OH OH/Low mix up 100% correctly?

i mean, johnny has 113 or f24, if i see 11 then it's time to press down and release to fuzzy guard. I'm neither reacting or guessing, just mathematically blocking.

with Shinnok for instance i know the low starts faster then the OH, yeah, but when i get the mimic i can delay the low, OH, grab, everything, there's no math there, just a guess or a reaction. i can fuzzy if i know my opponents timings, but it's not like the game is dictating it.

just like sub low and OH, i always treated it like a legit 50/50 tho the OH is reactable, and when im reacting to stuff, im not really fuzzy guarding...

I'll try to open my mind and maybe fuzzy shinnok and sub, and see what happens.

but my point is that fuzzy is 100% math.

 

[Braindead]

oh i get it yes, but isnt fuzzy guarding a mathematical method to block the Low/OH OH/Low mix up 100% correctly?

i mean, johnny has 113 or f24, if i see 11 then it's time to press down and release to fuzzy guard. I'm neither reacting or guessing, just mathematically blocking.

with Shinnok for instance i know the low starts faster then the OH, yeah, but when i get the mimic i can delay the low, OH, grab, everything, there's no math there, just a guess or a reaction. i can fuzzy if i know my opponents timings, but it's not like the game is dictating it.

just like sub low and OH, i always treated it like a legit 50/50 tho the OH is reactable, and when im reacting to stuff, im not really fuzzy guarding...

I'll try to open my mind and maybe fuzzy shinnok and sub, and see what happens.

but my point is that fuzzy is 100% math.

It's all considered fuzzying. In some mixups fuzzy guards work 100% because the person doing the mixup can't control the timing, like JC's 113 vs F24 or Bone Shaper's F41D2 vs F41Scoop. But it's still fuzzying if you are pre-emptively going from low to high or vice versa without reacting, even if the opponent has control, like Cassie, Shinnok, D'vorah.. so on.

 

[WiseM0nkey]

It's all considered fuzzying. In some mixups fuzzy guards work 100% because the person doing the mixup can't control the timing, like JC's 113 vs F24 or Bone Shaper's F41D2 vs F41Scoop. But it's still fuzzying if you are pre-emptively going from low to high or vice versa without reacting, even if the opponent has control, like Cassie, Shinnok, D'vorah.. so on.

mhm, still skeptical about that, but i get what you're saying.

I was just argueing "fuzzy guarding" by definition, anyways, and i was told that it requires no guessing or reacting, it's just 100% guaranteed blocked mixup.

that's what i was told.

 

[IrishMantis]

I tested it when the game first came out and can't remember the exact number but I believe its 5 frame of recovery after whiffing a jump attack. Tbh I'm not sure if I'm curious enough to go back and test it again to be totally sure

Empty jumps have no recovery.

As a comparison heres some other games whiff jump attack recovery, a.k.a. Trip Guard. Do note there was some odd bugs with MK9 that changed properties of recovery, such as the infamous Soonk bug.

MK9 = 1 frame
Injustice = 13 frames
KI S1 = 2 frames
KI S2 = 4 frames
SF4 = 4 frames

Thank you very much for this and the references man, I've being losing sleep due to this
I'll update in OP.
Thank again

@FireBreather

This is the thread you're talking about in the OP:

http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/mkx-glossary-of-terms.55418/

No idea why your tag didnt work.

Lol funny thing is I didn't get a notification of YOU tagging me in this lol

Appreciate this and love reading this stuff, gonna clean the OP up and add Spoiler tags for answers as Quoted look sloppy
So this will definitely come in handy

 

[IrishMantis]

mhm, still skeptical about that, but i get what you're saying.

I was just argueing "fuzzy guarding" by definition, anyways, and i was told that it requires no guessing or reacting, it's just 100% guaranteed blocked mixup.

that's what i was told.

I guess we can call it a true fuzzy and what iBraindead referring to as a Psuedo fuzzy since people love the words "true" and "Psuedo" these days

 

[Osagri]

Pls explain tripguarding.

 

[IrishMantis]

Pls explain tripguarding.

When an opponents does an air attack and then land on their feet, there is as we just learned 5 frames an opponent cant attack or block so you can full combo them on a whiffed jump attack

 

[Jolt]

tbh there's no such thing as delaying the low and mix up the timing.

as Johnny, for instance, you cant delay the low of 113, timing will be the same cause it's part of the string, so you're fuzzy guarding 100% of the time with no guess

I know you've already had a few responses to this, but I have to contribute mine:

113 is always the same timing (and a different timing from 11 skrc f2)

11 skrc d4 is a different timing and also a low, is it not? So that would be an example of potentially getting around a fuzzy by mixing up with the exact same string you were referring to.

Is it the most rewarding option? Nah, but for Johnny it means continued pressure on hit

 

[countrypistol]

When an opponents does an air attack and then land on their feet, there is as we just learned 5 frames an opponent cant attack or block so you can full combo them on a whiffed jump attack

I was led to believe that it was a form of anti-air where you catch the opponent in their landing recovery (the 5 frames) with a low profiling move like a d4 (or character equivalent). The idea is that the low profiling move will cause the opponent's jump in to whiff and catch their feet as they hit the ground. Have I been told wrong?

 

[Braindead]

I know you've already had a few responses to this, but I have to contribute mine:

113 is always the same timing (and a different timing from 11 skrc f2)

11 skrc d4 is a different timing and also a low, is it not? So that would be an example of potentially getting around a fuzzy by mixing up with the exact same string you were referring to.

Is it the most rewarding option? Nah, but for Johnny it means continued pressure on hit

11 d4 is basically an unblockable.

 

[IrishMantis]

I was led to believe that it was a form of anti-air where you catch the opponent in their landing recovery (the 5 frames) with a low profiling move like a d4 (or character equivalent). The idea is that the low profiling move will cause the opponent's jump in to whiff and catch their feet as they hit the ground. Have I been told wrong?

No that's more or less the same thing I said just in a logger and less ambitious take on it

It's really an AA per se as your opponent is grounded when an AA would beat them during their jumps but they are definitely related

 

[countrypistol]

No that's more or less the same thing I said just in a logger and less ambitious take on it

It's really an AA per se as your opponent is grounded when an AA would beat them during their jumps but they are definitely related

Thanks. I'll spend some time working on that. Sounds useful.

 

[WiseM0nkey]

I know you've already had a few responses to this, but I have to contribute mine:

113 is always the same timing (and a different timing from 11 skrc f2)

11 skrc d4 is a different timing and also a low, is it not? So that would be an example of potentially getting around a fuzzy by mixing up with the exact same string you were referring to.

Is it the most rewarding option? Nah, but for Johnny it means continued pressure on hit

well, at least i dont get a restand

 

[Mr_Swizzer]

Why do NRS patch the game but forget to update the numerical values in the frame data?