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Match-up Discussion Ermac Matchup chart by Metzos

Ermaculate_Slim

We are Many but we didnt make MK11 not one
I can agree with that I have no idea how to get around sheeva's stump unless I have x ray but Ive noticed a well timed teleport can interrupt it but i need to figure out the timing :)
 
Who's got to play the more safe game in the Ermac vs. Smoke match up? And speaking of which, is it possible to actually catch Smoke with TKP while his teleport in being animated? Or is he completely invincible during the duration of that move?
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Who's got to play the more safe game in the Ermac vs. Smoke match up? And speaking of which, is it possible to actually catch Smoke with TKP while his teleport in being animated? Or is he completely invincible during the duration of that move?
Smoke's tp cant be defeated by TKP on reaction. Everytime i have tried doing it, i was hit by it. I dont know though, perharps i wasnt doing it fast enough. Perhaps KT Smith could shed some light here about that. Ermac's TKP cant be punished by Smoke's tp, but on the other hand Ermac cannot punish his smoke bomb gimmicks up close too. He can only down poke him afterwards. Projectiles are out of the question against Smoke also cause of shake. TKP though can win against Smoke's smoke cloud. Also i believe you can jump out of smoke bomb gimmicks up close but its kinda risky cause if you get caught, we all know what happens if you dont have meter. In terms of dmg Ermac has the upper hand even without using meter, while Smoke needs to have meter for his resets which from what i ve seen are not always guaranteed. Just be careful of Smoke bombs when in fullscreen and be always on the look out to punish heavy any blocked tp's. Also if he tries to do any IAT's to close the distance you can easily punish them with d1 to lift. Its also best to end your combos with the F4 reset to keep him close to you. Also keep in mind that shake and ex shake do not work against TKP and lift. To answer your question on to who has to play more safe i would say Smoke cause he relys too much on his teleport. Smoke bombs also can be avoided by dashing. Its a little bit tricky but if you get down the timing it really changed alot this MU imo. I still believe though its an even MU all the way. Both have the tools to win and both must work the same to win also.

P.S : Never and i mean NEVER crouch block against Smoke when in sweep range, or up close or your dead.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
I can agree with that I have no idea how to get around sheeva's stump unless I have x ray but Ive noticed a well timed teleport can interrupt it but i need to figure out the timing :)
Yeah tp can punish it but its very risky imo. If you can keep her in TKP range, TKP can win agains her telestomp like it does against QC and Scorpion's tp's. Just be carefull of the armored version though.
 

KamikazeJD

Makes women fap
Too bad u wont be able to face any good Kitanas from usa like mr.mileena, crazy dominican, 16bit that will actually change your oppinion I stay whit my own Match Up guide for Kitana that looks almost identical as the one here in TYM and stay strong on 5/5 same as the JOKE that reptile is 6/4 agains Kitana Reptile is a joke to me offline online its 6/4 no question asked.
You respect kitana too much. Ive played top level kitanas and its not impossible. Just dont be dumb and jump into an iaf. Poke out her combos and do your best at keeping her in the corner. Unlike mostof the cast ermac can keep kitana corner fucked because her ass out can get caught in tkp. This matchup is about max punishment. You dont even need to make the greatest reads
 

zaf

professor
ditto for what metzos has to say on the smoke mu. ermac really just needs a small health lead. he doesnt have to approach smoke, smoke is not doing any chip damage so he will need to go to ermac. but if smoke has the life lead ermac will need to go to him as smoke can run away.

up close you have the faster normals. smokes normal combo starter 3 starts at frame 15 as well as b2. smokes will try to whiff punish you a lot with b2 and smoke bomb so be careful. try and stay just outside sweep range and in between max tkp range. dashing in and grabbing is good in this mu, it helps your footsie game. this also opens up your 1,12 and 121 game.

in the same way smoke players back up and whiff punish your footsies, you can do just the same with tkp and tks. d3 gives you good space. after one just walk back. if they do any normals tks them, if they jump or teleport gimmick aa them and if they do a smoke bomb just jip or block. his d4 is better then ermacs imo

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You respect kitana too much. Ive played top level kitanas and its not impossible. Just dont be dumb and jump into an iaf. Poke out her combos and do your best at keeping her in the corner. Unlike mostof the cast ermac can keep kitana corner fucked because her ass out can get caught in tkp. This matchup is about max punishment. You dont even need to make the greatest reads
I didnt say its un winnable but the match is still in nones favor if Ermac keeps Kitana out he can win but if Kitana gets in Ermac is dead hes normals are slower than Kitanas and has no armor to scape the inevitable death I personally dont feel this match is hard for Kitana like the Kenshi or Kabal matches.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
I didnt say its un winnable but the match is still in nones favor if Ermac keeps Kitana out he can win but if Kitana gets in Ermac is dead hes normals are slower than Kitanas and has no armor to scape the inevitable death I personally dont feel this match is hard for Kitana like the Kenshi or Kabal matches.
Yeah but the thing is its not easy for Kitana to get in. Thats the point. Up close they are even, but midscreen Ermac has a vast advantage. He wont just stand there and spam TKP's when she starts dash blocking to get to him. Also there are times where the second hit of F21 might whiff if you re not careful with your spacing and that can be disastrous for Kitana. Ermac's 121 string starts at 10f and his 312 string starts at 12f. He is not as slow as you make him to be.

EDIT: From what ive seen judging from the Kitana frame data her normals are slower than his.
 
Yeah but the thing is its not easy for Kitana to get in. Thats the point. Up close they are even, but midscreen Ermac has a vast advantage. He wont just stand there and spam TKP's when she starts dash blocking to get to him. Also there are times where the second hit of F21 might whiff if you re not careful with your spacing and that can be disastrous for Kitana. Ermac's 121 string starts at 10f and his 312 string starts at 12f. He is not as slow as you make him to be.

EDIT: From what ive seen judging from the Kitana frame data her normals are slower than his.
there is no Ermac normal faster than 2 or 21 or 21 cutter Kitana will hit faster than ermac from close if both chars deside to hit at same time and 2 has more range than any of ermacs stuf once Kitana is in she just runs over him you cant say they are ven from close because Ermac CANT rush down Kitana but Kitana CAN rushdown Ermac thats a fact.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
there is no Ermac normal faster than 2 or 21 or 21 cutter Kitana will hit faster than ermac from close if both chars deside to hit at same time and 2 has more range than any of ermacs stuf once Kitana is in she just runs over him you cant say they are ven from close because Ermac CANT rush down Kitana but Kitana CAN rushdown Ermac thats a fact.
Kitana's 2 has a 11f startup. Ermac's 1 has a 10f startup. What are you talking about ? Both are equally up close simply because both can interrupt each others strings. How can she rush him down when simply everything she does contains high hits which can be down poked ? I really dont understand your logic.
 
OMG I will drop this its pointless the match doenst feel 6/4 as I said my buddy that allways plays offline whit me mained Ermac then changed to Kabal since he said Ermac is too slow to do anything to the top tiers hes still now still the best Ermac iv seen on streams so far and we mostly went even in matches he wins 1 I win 1 he got to win a regional whit Ermac and all, buttom line is that Kabal, Kenshi, Raiden they make me work harder than Ermac does so that match doesnt feel 6/4.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
OMG I will drop this its pointless the match doenst feel 6/4 as I said my buddy that allways plays offline whit me mained Ermac then changed to Kabal since he said Ermac is too slow to do anything to the top tiers hes still now still the best Ermac iv seen on streams so far and we mostly went even in matches he wins 1 I win 1 he got to win a regional whit Ermac and all, buttom line is that Kabal, Kenshi, Raiden they make me work harder than Ermac does so that match doesnt feel 6/4.
Did it occur to you that he might not know the MU well ? Good for him if he does well on streams, but simply because you can win against him or not have to work that hard to win against him doesnt mean its an even MU m8. You are telling me that because you won against one Ermac player i have to concede that the MU is even ? Sorry but no. Get your facts straight.
 
I didnt say I win all we mostly run even and the matchup doest feel as hard as Kabal or Kenshi or Raiden where I really have to work for it more than Ermac. He dropped him after winning a Regional whit him claiming same as I say "hes normal atacks are too slow to keep whit some of the good chars in the cast I go try Kabal" and he switched hes free whit Ermac now but used to be really good whit him and I base the matchup in what most people say go talk to Mr.Mileena or CD or 16Bit they will agree the match is even...
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
I used to think the Ermac MU was 6-4 in Kitana's favor until I started playing him. Now I think it is even. I don't find it hard to get in on Ermac at all with Kitana when I need to and if an Ermac player thinks that d3, d4, or throw are the keys to keeping me out inside of max TKP range, they will be sorely mistaken. Ermac 3,1 when not done out of a JPS eats an uppercut or worse as the second hit will be ducked. You have to use other pokes when you are grounded.

Kitana's 2 is 11f, but it has OTG properties alone and with 2,1. It has tremendous range and beats every other normal in the game when used properly (cdjr tested this). It also grants more damage, meter build and opportunities when it hits. On block, if you are standing, she does 2,1~cutter for chip which jails you standing and puts her at the perfect range to whiff punish.

You cannot use d3 to lower your hitbox against Kitana on crossup because you will lose 30-40% from a jk~air fan.

Ermac and Kitana are comparable on damage, but Kitana has way more opportunities to get hers as well as building meter where he can typically only get it on blocked TKP (which is highly risky when not done at max range) or JPS~114/312.

I can see no way that this MU is anything but even. I understand Ermac much more than I used to now thanks to reading posts from metzos13 and watching his videos.

Metzos, it could be that I have simply not faced an Ermac on your level or that you have not faced one of mine or the other top Kitana players in the US. With that being said, doesn't that mean that we should agree to disagree and put it as even? We can theory fighter this for eternity.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
I used to think the Ermac MU was 6-4 in Kitana's favor until I started playing him. Now I think it is even. I don't find it hard to get in on Ermac at all with Kitana when I need to and if an Ermac player thinks that d3, d4, or throw are the keys to keeping me out inside of max TKP range, they will be sorely mistaken. Ermac 3,1 when not done out of a JPS eats an uppercut or worse as the second hit will be ducked. You have to use other pokes when you are grounded.

Kitana's 2 is 11f, but it has OTG properties alone and with 2,1. It has tremendous range and beats every other normal in the game when used properly (cdjr tested this). It also grants more damage, meter build and opportunities when it hits. On block, if you are standing, she does 2,1~cutter for chip which jails you standing and puts her at the perfect range to whiff punish.

You cannot use d3 to lower your hitbox against Kitana on crossup because you will lose 30-40% from a jk~air fan.

Ermac and Kitana are comparable on damage, but Kitana has way more opportunities to get hers as well as building meter where he can typically only get it on blocked TKP (which is highly risky when not done at max range) or JPS~114/312.

I can see no way that this MU is anything but even. I understand Ermac much more than I used to now thanks to reading posts from metzos13 and watching his videos.

Metzos, it could be that I have simply not faced an Ermac on your level or that you have not faced one of mine or the other top Kitana players in the US. With that being said, doesn't that mean that we should agree to disagree and put it as even? We can theory fighter this for eternity.
Yeah you have a point here. Its true that i havent faced a Kitana player in your lvl but i ve seen what she can do and besides the OTG Mr.Mileena found (respect) i havent seen anything else that convinces me that its an even MU. Anyway for the sake of the project we are doing i will put the MU as even so this can end now.
 

RTM2004

Revenant Jade
How is Kitana vs Ermac 5-5 and Sonya is 4.5-5.5 with Ermac winning? Sonya is a cheap, ridiculous character and fighting against her with any zoning character is a pain in the ass. Even when I try to spam Sonya to death with Sindel or Liu Kang fireballs, Sonya ALWAYS gets in, Blondie is filled with dirty tricks and she is like Mission Impossible to keep out. Oh yeah, I hear this too... Sonya is easy to zone out... that is BS! She can outzone you if she hits you first with her Pink Rings and she can even keep you out with her loaded options of AA. She is like Cage, she can lock you down and hard to get that leech lady off you.

What does Kitana have? D1 long poke F2,1-2,1,-Jump Kick~Fan range combo starters, big damage, air projectile combo
Sonya has Mileena D4 poke range, Dive Kick, MS, Pink Rings, big damage, can't poke/jump AA options and ARMOR -_-*

Since no one uses Ermac offline supposedly bottom tier.. I guess that Sonya MU will stay 5.5-4.5 Ermac wins.
In theory, I would put it 5-5 they both give each other problems, maybe 6-4 in Sonya's favor.. who knows.
 

Death

Noob
How is Kitana vs Ermac 5-5 and Sonya is 4.5-5.5 with Ermac winning? Sonya is a cheap, ridiculous character and fighting against her with any zoning character is a pain in the ass. Even when I try to spam Sonya to death with Sindel or Liu Kang fireballs, Sonya ALWAYS gets in, Blondie is filled with dirty tricks and she is like Mission Impossible to keep out. Oh yeah, I hear this too... Sonya is easy to zone out... that is BS! She can outzone you if she hits you first with her Pink Rings and she can even keep you out with her loaded options of AA. She is like Cage, she can lock you down and hard to get that leech lady off you.

What does Kitana have? D1 long poke F2,1-2,1,-Jump Kick~Fan range combo starters, big damage, air projectile combo
Sonya has Mileena D4 poke range, Dive Kick, MS, Pink Rings, big damage, can't poke/jump AA options and ARMOR -_-*

Since no one uses Ermac offline supposedly bottom tier.. I guess that Sonya MU will stay 5.5-4.5 Ermac wins.
In theory, I would put it 5-5 they both give each other problems, maybe 6-4 in Sonya's favor.. who knows.
What kind of problems would Ermac give Sonya? If you think Kenshi and Sonya is even then Sonya beats ermac 8-2 lol
 

Ermaculate_Slim

We are Many but we didnt make MK11 not one
I seriously doubt this MU is that bad.You beat me pretty good with her but I didnt know the MU well at all. lol I used to think the cartwheel was overhead.That just how clueless I was fighting her.

P.S. metzos13 I feel Ermac vs Sub is 6-4 ermac
 

RTM2004

Revenant Jade
What kind of problems would Ermac give Sonya? If you think Kenshi and Sonya is even then Sonya beats ermac 8-2 lol
LOL

I'm just referring to his fast recovery on his Telekinetic Push if she is out of range but once she is in she can Dive Kick combo him easy same applies to his Force Lift. Ermac has good Grab set ups and his damage output is very high. His F4 can stuff her D4 when she is coming in. But yeah, her fast normals beats everything up close...man.. Sonya's gdlk fast Uppercut..another ridiculous tool she has XD... Isn't his hitbox big? So that means he risks poking in exchange for her Dive Kick. But yeah I can agree with you that this MU must be a very hard one for him up close 6-4 she wins *Sonya Grabs and says "YES!"*