Could be. What helps a lot, and which I’ve mentioned before, is the offline training mode delay simulation. I haven’t played MK11 in awhile, but that helped me dramatically playing online. But, it is worrying that whenever I played online, I never had a connection that didn’t have delay. And it was consistently the same delay that was offered in the offline delay simulation. It didn’t matter what the ping was, which I still don’t understand how that works.I'm pretty sure its 3+1 based on that hour long vid discussion they had on the netplay. I'll try to source it for you.
I've watched the GDC talk twice in the past. They do mention the static delay right in the beginning. Specifically at this location in the aforementioned video. It compares old and new and explains some about why.Could be. What helps a lot, and which I’ve mentioned before, is the offline training mode delay simulation. I haven’t played MK11 in awhile, but that helped me dramatically playing online. But, it is worrying that whenever I played online, I never had a connection that didn’t have delay. And it was consistently the same delay that was offered in the offline delay simulation. It didn’t matter what the ping was, which I still don’t understand how that works.
Regardless, MK11 has been by far the best fighting game experience I’ve had in regards to online play. And I even played on WiFi for a lot of the time I was playing. The fact that I was having very consistently playable matches while on WiFi, and even when my opponent was also on WiFi, tells me how insanely good MK11’s netcode is, at least in my personal opinion.
However, it being good comparatively speaking doesn’t mean it’s the best it can be. Having automatically 3-4 frames of delay while playing online, regardless of ping, while as I said was more than playable, it shouldn’t be considered the pinnacle of online netcode. I think though, that everyone is aware of this. There always is room for improvement. But to suggest that MK11’s netcode is bad? That is disingenuous to say the least.
Yeah KL is a great example of it. Nothing but GOLDEN netcode! It's a gold standard for NRS games not fighting games, there is no gold standard for online in fighting games. GGPO is a highly tweakable netcode and needs to be tweaked for each connection IMO. You can't have a static set of input delay and say it's great for all connections where-as its more of a safe cushion for people with shitty internet (which doesn't even work anyway??).When people complain about the current gold standard for network play in fighting games...
MK11 doesn't use GGPO. It's rollback but definitely not GGPO.You all lack serious knowledge of the topic at hand here, even with the video evidence in your face. Nor are you reading into what Scoot is saying more specifically.
If you play the game online AT ALL, no matter the connection, IT HAS LAG! A fixed value that is NOT-CHANGEABLE. That value is minimum 3 frames. If you have a low ping match, you should be able to adjust those frames down to have a better experience. This is what Scoot is referring to and in true GGPO netcode, you can adjust this input value to better suit you and your opponent's connection.
So if you're an offline player (which is totally on hiatus now anyway), even the best online connections, you can feel your inputs getting fucked up and eaten alive by those four frames.
Yeah KL is a great example of it. Nothing but GOLDEN netcode! It's a gold standard for NRS games not fighting games, there is no gold standard for online in fighting games. GGPO is a highly tweakable netcode and needs to be tweaked for each connection IMO. You can't have a static set of input delay and say it's great for all connections where-as its more of a safe cushion for people with shitty internet (which doesn't even work anyway??).
Yes.It is 3 frames, according to @Dizzy. And the Ping doesn’t matter in this regard. Again, according to NRS themselves.
True, it's rollback based though, and those frames should be able to be adjusted for private matches. That's all Scoot is getting at I believe.MK11 doesn't use GGPO. It's rollback but definitely not GGPO.
Your point is valid but I dont see a reason why the 3 frames has to be fixed outside of the fact that they wanted static timing throughout the online experience. They could also default at the 3 fixed frames for those in rural areas and give the option to lower it for players that live in more densely populated areas. This is something that's been done many times already. That's probably by far the best option. They could even automatically vary the input lag depending on ping.The number of players you are going to be able to exchange inputs with in 1-2 frames times is going to be super small unless you happen to live in a hyper densely populated area, with good internet infrastructure, where lots of people happen to like the same game at the same time, despite this being a fragmented and unpopular genre of game. The odds that those people are actually educated enough to be wired is expecting a lot, especially given we now know how many people are wireless and constantly have to explain why that is a problem to people causing 100ms ping swings.
Just because you can theoretically get a shorter round trip with someone or that you might be able to buddy up with one or two people you know you can get a fast connection to, doesn't mean it's wise to build the thing around the most ideal, edge case scenario and call that "good."
I don't think what is being said is so much inaccurate as trying to define what "good" is as something that I don't think makes a great standard for it. Whatever it is they do has to just work, for everyone, without fiddling. Something people manage (settings) doesn't cut it. If it preforms a little worse in the most idealistic situation, but preforms profoundly better in non-ideal situations then that's a thing you can also weigh "good" around. I'm betting that's what they and many other people are going to think of as "good."
Is there a way it could be better? IDK. I sure would like it if after 3 games the pre fight ping estimate didn't continue to be about 30ms under actual. It's seriously as reliable as gravity that it will be under quoted. What is that about?
Oh, and GBFV's net play can get pretty darn chunky.
Honestly, it's not even about timing, its more about reacting. The way the neutral plays out completely changes.Could be. What helps a lot, and which I’ve mentioned before, is the offline training mode delay simulation. I haven’t played MK11 in awhile, but that helped me dramatically playing online. But, it is worrying that whenever I played online, I never had a connection that didn’t have delay. And it was consistently the same delay that was offered in the offline delay simulation.
yea I play granblue a lot the net code is not better lol.It isn't.
Look out for Mr. Knowledge everbody!You all lack serious knowledge of the topic at hand here, even with the video evidence in your face. Nor are you reading into what Scoot is saying more specifically.
If you play the game online AT ALL, no matter the connection, IT HAS LAG! A fixed value that is NOT-CHANGEABLE. That value is minimum 3 frames. If you have a low ping match, you should be able to adjust those frames down to have a better experience. This is what Scoot is referring to and in true GGPO netcode, you can adjust this input value to better suit you and your opponent's connection.
So if you're an offline player (which is totally on hiatus now anyway), even the best online connections, you can feel your inputs getting fucked up and eaten alive by those four frames.
Yeah KL is a great example of it. Nothing but GOLDEN netcode! It's a gold standard for NRS games not fighting games, there is no gold standard for online in fighting games. GGPO is a highly tweakable netcode and needs to be tweaked for each connection IMO. You can't have a static set of input delay and say it's great for all connections where-as its more of a safe cushion for people with shitty internet (which doesn't even work anyway??).
The game allows for up to 7 frames of rollback. What are you talking about? It's also been done already in other games.Look out for Mr. Knowledge everbody!
It might not be feasible for them have adjustable input delay like that, they talked about the difficulties of rolling back the particle effects the like. I imagine that creates more opportunity for nasty graphical rollback and they don't want that. Maybe one day,
The netcode should serve the players, the majority of players are not playing in pristine connections. And yes it's very good in mediocre connections.
But I don't see why you shouldn't be happy with it, it's very good. Anything can be better.
I don't know what part didn't work for you.The game allows for up to 7 frames of rollback. What are you talking about? It's also been done already in other games.
Also giving players the option to lower input lag themselves doesnt hurt the rest of the player base.