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Bottom 5 Character Project

Ermaculate_Slim

We are Many but we didnt make MK11 not one
Dear God Whats with all these Sub Zero's.(According to Sub boards) Wasnt he the best in the game when the last patch first came out lol
Now he's worse then jade make up your minds plz
 

RunwayMafia

Shoot them. Shoot them all.
Thank you. Peepz be trippin' puttin my boy in bottom 5. One spear and your screwed... I honestly just don't even understand how one can say he sucks. Online scrubs giving Scorpion a bad name.
Yup. Same with Sheeva. Noobs online have given such a bad rep...but one low grab landed and you can kiss half your life away!
 

PimpUigi

Sex Kick
Dear God Whats with all these Sub Zero's.(According to Sub boards) Wasnt he the best in the game when the last patch first came out lol
Now he's worse then jade make up your minds plz
No one knew how the dash nerf, or other character buffs were going to effect Sub Zero. They just looked at "Oh, a near top tier character is getting armor and more freeze time = broken!"

Keep in mind Jade wasn't in the bottom five last patch either, and she even got one nerf in 1.05
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
A lot of what you say is true, but your missing some key factors.

Scorp's d4 isnt as bad as your making it out to be. Its got better than average range. The point of d4 takedown is to make sure people are forced to block after d4 hits. If your solution to Scorpion's d4 is to just sit and duck block all day your taking a risk of getting hit by a b+2 which could lead you to your death or a f+3 if he chooses to be safe.

Getting hit by the last hit of 111 means he gets a free dash up 334. It cannot be poked or jumped out of, they are forced to block. Lets also not forget he can link 111 into takedown which can't be interrupted either. 1,11 are both 0 on block. Jumping is very risky since another 1 or 11 will catch you for a juggle into a vortex on the way up. The safest option is to d1, but then you are vulnerable to cross ups, 334 or him finishing the string. So he has multiple solutions to stop your safest and most reliable way to get out of his pressure. The risk/reward is heavily in his favor. I think you underestimate this more than you should.

EX Spear should be used on reaction to counter special and nothing more. If your just throwing it out...then your just an idiot. :p Same for just throwing out naked spear, throwing it out without pre-meditation is silly. Naked spear should only be used for people running away from his d4 game or blatantly charging at you.

If your looking for safe with Scorpion, you use 11 and d+4 and d+4~takdown. These moves should tell you all you need to know about your opponent on when and where you should take his high risk/high reward maneuvers. The 334 you consider safe I consider extremely risky since its easily jumped when used in space. Its only good to keep people honestly during pressure and for punishing imo.

Most people don' know but he has the best jump punch in the game as well. Or at least one of the best.

Scorp isn't bottom 5. He sure as hell isn't top 5 or maybe even top 10. He's the best punisher in the game tho, and that must account for something.
 

PimpUigi

Sex Kick
Slips, IMHO the jump punch thing is all about the players timing.
IMHO you have good jump punch timing. I play Cage Mileena and Reptile almost as much as Scorpion, and all their jump punches seem the same to me. IMHO just your solid skill lending to the idea Scorpion has a better than average jump punch.
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
No way, Scorp's jump punch is whack. There is DEFINITELY differences in jump punches. Kitana's is worse than average.
 

PimpUigi

Sex Kick
Osu 16 Bit (scared to just be 16-bit) I'd wholeheartedly agree if I noticed a difference between characters I play (Mileena's should be similar to Kitana's)...and my friend can almost always hit my Mileena D4 with his Kitana's jump punch.
So IMHO it's just a timing issue. But without hitbox data this is all conjecture.
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
Osu 16 Bit (scared to just be 16-bit) I'd wholeheartedly agree if I noticed a difference between characters I play (Mileena's should be similar to Kitana's)...and my friend can almost always hit my Mileena D4 with his Kitana's jump punch.
So IMHO it's just a timing issue. But without hitbox data this is all conjecture.
Osu 16 Bit (scared to just be 16-bit) I'd wholeheartedly agree if I noticed a difference between characters I play (Mileena's should be similar to Kitana's)...and my friend can almost always hit my Mileena D4 with his Kitana's jump punch.
So IMHO it's just a timing issue. But without hitbox data this is all conjecture.

Slips plays other characters and I've compared Kit's to other's.

If it was just me I'd chalk it up to salt but everyone that plays that Scorp notices and starts tearing.
 

PimpUigi

Sex Kick
Gotcha. I think it's very likely his jump punch has a bigger hitbox than most, and I do trust your comparisons.
I think some of the hitboxes are silly.
I was going to take a picture some weeks ago of some D4's against crouching opponents where the foot sticks through their opponents face, and yet no one gets hit...stance specific too. Switch stance, and the opponent gets hit.

MK9!
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
You can see a lot of examples of Scorp's jp just winning for no reason when I played against Dizzy's Cage. It was pretty much the main reason I pulled it out. Its awesome lol.

 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
While I'm at it...

1. Jade
2. Striker
3. Baraka
4. Nightwolf
5. Cyber Sub
 
Csz > raiden
csz 5-5 lao
csz < jax
csz < kit
csz < kabal ***SLIGHTLY ask reo if u dont believe me please
csz 5-5 kenshi - I promise

cyber sub and kano might be raidens 2 hardest fights.

though i will explore these mu's open, personally i think sonya being a bad matchup is a myth, reptile is iffy
 

PANDEMlC

El Psy Congroo
Nobody thinks Skarlett is bottom 5? I think she has potential but I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone throw her in the bottom 5.

I don't really care much about rankings,. Most of the characters in this game are good. I don't even think Baraka, Stryker or Sheeva couldn't win a major. It just comes down to some matchups which of course you have other characters for. I do think Jade, Sindel and Ermac won't win a major though. They just suck too much imo, or more so that they just get stomped on by top tiers.
 

CJKRattlehead

Two men enter, one man leaves!
Pagan

Well, bottom line is a tier list is based on who has the worst match-ups and scorpion goes 5-5 with most of the kast and doesn't have any 7-3s so by default he isn't bottom tier.

Also 334 = -2 on block, not a great string, but solid.
 

CJKRattlehead

Two men enter, one man leaves!
cyber sub and kano might be raidens 2 hardest fights.

though i will explore these mu's open, personally i think sonya being a bad matchup is a myth, reptile is iffy
Kano is a 5-5 as is Cyber Sub in my opinion, Sonya is close to a 6-4 but i can't call that match-up in sonya's favor. I believe reptile is Raiden's only slightly bad MU.
 

Red Son

Noob
1. Jade
2. Sindel
3. Quan Chi
4. Baraka
5. Sub Zero

I don't think stryker is that bad, he's just hard to play with, tricky cancels and good zonning XD anyone watch Stryker's Academy on youtube?. He's in top 10 bottom for me.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
Nobody thinks Skarlett is bottom 5? I think she has potential but I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone throw her in the bottom 5.

I don't really care much about rankings,. Most of the characters in this game are good. I don't even think Baraka, Stryker or Sheeva couldn't win a major. It just comes down to some matchups which of course you have other characters for. I do think Jade, Sindel and Ermac won't win a major though. They just suck too much imo, or more so that they just get stomped on by top tiers.
Red Devil falls into the same category as Rain, Shang and Kenshi before him:
No one's gonna take him seriously until he starts exterminating people in droves.
But not enough people play him for such a thing to happen.

It can be done. I'm surprised it hasn't yet.
Been waiting for an Ermac renaissance since before I even picked him up.

He can put up a good fight against just about every member of the top tier.
Kitana, Mileena, Raiden, Cyrax, Kung Lao...he dances with all of them.
Kabal and Jax he struggles against if they can outpace him, but it's far from hopeless.
There's some people in the cast he DESTROYS if he gets the right amount of momentum.
At least this is what I've gathered. I may not get to travel and battle much, but I study this game like it's calculus.

It's gonna happen. Only a matter of when...and who.
 
You can see a lot of examples of Scorp's jp just winning for no reason when I played against Dizzy's Cage. It was pretty much the main reason I pulled it out. Its awesome lol.

Im not doubting dizzy or anything but is his anti air game on point? its a great find when it really is different than other characters' jp
 

Carefoot

http://youtube.com/nickcarefoot
Jade, Stryker, Nightwolf, Scarlet, Sonya

Jade is laughable.
Stryker has matchups where if you lose to him I think your probably just a low level retard.
Nightwolf is probably MKs worst character once you abuse him.
Scarlet maybe this character has yet to show its light to me.
Sonya can be zoned out fairly easily.
 

Carefoot

http://youtube.com/nickcarefoot
lol Kano and Sub bottom 5.

That list is full of win. :D

1. Jade
2. Sindel
3. Stryker
4. Baraka
5. Ermac

I think Baraka is good but in the end he just comes out as a watered down version of Jax, Johnny Cage and Sonya imo.

Sheeva is gonna surprise some people at EVO. :)
Baraka and Sheeva are incredibly annoying shut up. Please don't let more people play pure shenanigans characters.

And no way Ermac top 5 bottom hes solid compared to Sonya who can just be zoned out all day. Teleport characters don't get to be bottom 5.


*Scratches head*

Are you sure?
Yep. Even after they gave her armor on her kicks no reason you can't just keep zoning her all day. I just never let her in.

Use Kano against Raiden (Raidens worst matchup) because when you hit raiden with knives enough he will teleport which converts your next knife input into a 1 frame roll start up which instantly punishes teleports. <-- Why Kano isn't bottom 5.