It has to be taken into consideration that the vast majority of the MK community is more the "NRS community" era, as in, MK9, MKX, Injustice 1 & 2. Anything before that is similar to SF4 '09ers. I understand this comes off a bit insulting to them but anything that happened from the arcade era through MKDC is lost upon a number of people. That's why players like us remind as many people as we can, that the MK community wasn't spontaneous generation via MK9. That mentality actually is legitimately insulting to everything we did before it. Part of the reason why we merged the ultimatemk.com forums with TYM was to preserve the activity of the site on a live forum. For example, a lot of member join dates are years before TYM was created. It's important to many that something they belong to has a history or legacy, but others feel like nothing matters than what is happening now. Does that matter? I guess, until now is no longer now.I wouldn’t call it NRS communty I’d call it MK community where everything started
only one in this community comes close to @Check this guy has dedicated his life to MK and in the past years Injustice.
No one has broken each character more than Check I’m surprised no one has even mentioned him. Back in the day when the internet wasn’t as it is now he came up with great finds. A lot of those names are just celebrities who do shit for their own benefit nowadays it’s all about who has the most views. I have mad respect for players like @REO and @Tom Brady who have done a lot for the community as well
Another name that comes to mind as a big influence is @Konqrr before YouTube he was already providing combo videos on his own site Konqrr.net this guy brought a lot of traffic to the forums
If we’d have a hall of fame Check and Konqrr should be there
Your post makes a lot of sense. That’s why guys like You, @STORMS myself and a few others must keep that part of the community alive or try to bring it back to the scene, that’s why the mentions of old school players is very important. There’s a goal my friend I’ll tell you eventually.It has to be taken into consideration that the vast majority of the MK community is more the "NRS community" era, as in, MK9, MKX, Injustice 1 & 2. Anything before that is similar to SF4 '09ers. I understand this comes off a bit insulting to them but anything that happened from the arcade era through MKDC is lost upon a number of people. That's why players like us remind as many people as we can, that the MK community wasn't spontaneous generation via MK9. That mentality actually is legitimately insulting to everything we did before it. Part of the reason why we merged the ultimatemk.com forums with TYM was to preserve the activity of the site on a live forum. For example, a lot of member join dates are years before TYM was created. It's important to many that something they belong to has a history or legacy, but others feel like nothing matters than what is happening now. Does that matter? I guess, until now is no longer now.
As of right now, the closest to MK/NRS exclusive personality who is the most hype and far reaching to me, is Kitana Prime.
I am from the Mortal Kombat 9 era even though I played all the 3D Mortal Kombat games. I take no offense in being labeled the equivalent of a "Street Fighter 4 '09er" so I hope you take no offense in the following question as ignorant as the question may be. Was the scene prior to Mortal Kombat 9 not limited to a dozen offline players from New York once the glory days of Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 days were long finished? I ask this question not to diminish what you and many others did for the early stages of the Mortal Kombat community yet to argue that the modern scene is based on Mortal Kombat 9, if not Mortal Kombat Deception to be precise. I presume the equivalence is kind of how the modern Street Fighter 5 scene is based on the Street Fighter 4 scene from 2009, and not any prior scenes (i.e., Super Turbo or Third Strike).It has to be taken into consideration that the vast majority of the MK community is more the "NRS community" era, as in, MK9, MKX, Injustice 1 & 2. Anything before that is similar to SF4 '09ers. I understand this comes off a bit insulting to them but anything that happened from the arcade era through MKDC is lost upon a number of people.
This has always been an issue with the NRS community though. Even back in the MK9 days. Even the IDEA that there were people that kept MK alive before MK9 was scoffed at and those people were said to be “living in the past”. Like, how can you be that ungrateful and disrespectful to not even acknowledge the efforts of those who came before you? There’s this weird mentality that persists in this scene. That if you don’t place in the current games, what you say is dismissible. Anything you’ve done is irrelevant. From how you used to do in those games, to what you did for the community. Not only that, there were a lot of well known players that diminished the importance of these people. Saying that without them MK9 would have been in the same place it was from the very beginning. This is demonstrably false. The new players to the FGC via MK9 had no idea how to get their game at an event, that you had to supply your own equipment at the time, that it was a community driven effort, etc. People forget that MK wasn’t in the main game lineup at FGC events for probably over a decade, not even too sure myself. Aside from some UMK3 events that were, most of the MK tournaments at majors were side games. Without the people who already had a good report with TO’s, and since at the time NRS wasn’t too involved in the tournament scene yet, MK9 would have had a very rough start (. So much so that who knows how it would have turned out. All the iconic moments from MK9 may have not happened, but that’s getting kinda into some butterfly effect shit.I am from the Mortal Kombat 9 era even though I played all the 3D Mortal Kombat games. I take no offense in being labeled the equivalent of a "Street Fighter 4 '09er" so I hope you take no offense in the following question as ignorant as the question may be. Was the scene prior to Mortal Kombat 9 not limited to a dozen offline players from New York once the glory days of Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 days were long finished? I ask this question not to diminish what you and many others did for the early stages of the Mortal Kombat community yet to argue that the modern scene is based on Mortal Kombat 9, if not Mortal Kombat Deception to be precise. I presume the equivalence is kind of how the modern Street Fighter 5 scene is based on the Street Fighter 4 scene from 2009, and not any prior scenes (i.e., Super Turbo or Third Strike).
It's not ignorant at all, and really not far off from that, as all post 2011 NRS games derive their momentum from the previous game directly, build their own, and repeat. When I really get to talk to people in person about this stuff, it's clear that I have a good idea as to what made MK9's success possible, but also why I feel the NY/NJ scene was super important to that. It often comes off as credit stealing so I feel it needs to be reiterated.I am from the Mortal Kombat 9 era even though I played all the 3D Mortal Kombat games. I take no offense in being labeled the equivalent of a "Street Fighter 4 '09er" so I hope you take no offense in the following question as ignorant as the question may be. Was the scene prior to Mortal Kombat 9 not limited to a dozen offline players from New York once the glory days of Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 days were long finished? I ask this question not to diminish what you and many others did for the early stages of the Mortal Kombat community yet to argue that the modern scene is based on Mortal Kombat 9, if not Mortal Kombat Deception to be precise. I presume the equivalence is kind of how the modern Street Fighter 5 scene is based on the Street Fighter 4 scene from 2009, and not any prior scenes (i.e., Super Turbo or Third Strike).
I understand your point and support the recounting of the history as well as the acknowledgement of players. My only criticism is that the games, especially Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 but Mortal Kombat 9 to a lesser extent too, are often romanticized during storytelling. Neither game has aged well. In fact, both games are awful by today's fighting game standards. I can attest to Mortal Kombat 9 more so than Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 for obvious reasons. I had rather play Mortal Kombat X, a game that I am not particularly very fond of, than Mortal Kombat 9, a game that favors my gameplay style, because the latter game's balance is atrocious and the glitches and bugs are ubiquitous. On the other hand, I get the impression that most Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 players would not choose Mortal Kombat X, or any other modern NRS fighting game for that matter, over their old game. Juggs, not to put you on the spot, but you are the prime example of this behavior. Every time a new NRS fighting game is released, you are excited and talk about playing competitively. A couple of months later, your interest tends to fade and you talk about how no fighting game will ever be as good as Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 was.Anyway, that mentality still exists today, just less prevalent. But instead of scoffing at the idea, it’s ignored completely. This is why I want the history documented. That way it cannot be ignored, or at least, those who are interested in the history will be able to find it easily. I’m not asking for parades to be thrown to honor these people, just some acknowledgment. Literally that’s it.
I agree that competitive players only represent a tiny fraction of the overall fan base. However, they have two important things that forces NRS to listen to them. First, they have the loudest voices on the Internet. Second, they have lots of followers, subscribers, and viewers, to which they advertise the games by discussing and streaming the games. Any business, including NRS, loves free advertising.Knowing what I know, it's confusing for a cash cow to do something that doesn't really make you money, in fact, you are really just spending money to advertise to people who already buy your game when you do pot bonuses. It's a thank you in essence, to a tiny tiny part of your audience that is passionate about your work. That's great and all, and some players have truly made a name for themselves, but making the move to do big, visible to the public tournaments doesn't seem like it was in their wheelhouse to me, and wouldn't have been without direct communication with the scene. Again It's hard to say, but I don't know why would they suddenly be interested in getting involved these competitive events when they could just do the normal routine of releasing games for general consumption, especially for a company that doesn't even like when characters get leaked or invite the deep players in and pull back the curtain.
Totally on the money, internet personalities like Max are a great resource because they reach a much more generalized, casual audience, and Eleague is a no-brainer too.I understand your point and support the recounting of the history as well as the acknowledgement of players. My only criticism is that the games, especially Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 but Mortal Kombat 9 to a lesser extent too, are often romanticized during storytelling. Neither game has aged well. In fact, both games are awful by today's fighting game standards. I can attest to Mortal Kombat 9 more so than Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 for obvious reasons. I had rather play Mortal Kombat X, a game that I am not particularly very fond of, than Mortal Kombat 9, a game that favors my gameplay style, because the latter game's balance is atrocious and the glitches and bugs are ubiquitous. On the other hand, I get the impression that most Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 players would not choose Mortal Kombat X, or any other modern NRS fighting game for that matter, over their old game. Juggs, not to put you on the spot, but you are the prime example of this behavior. Every time a new NRS fighting game is released, you are excited and talk about playing competitively. A couple of months later, your interest tends to fade and you talk about how no fighting game will ever be as good as Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 was.
I agree that competitive players only represent a tiny fraction of the overall fan base. However, they have two important things that forces NRS to listen to them. First, they have the loudest voices on the Internet. Second, they have lots of followers, subscribers, and viewers, to which they advertise the games by discussing and streaming the games. Any business, including NRS, loves free advertising.
In addition to the competitive players, the "influencers", to use NRS's word, are another yet arguably more important factor. Reviewers and content creators such as Max and Angry Joe have millions of YouTube subscribers. Max and Angry Joe are no competitive players, but they are generally well-informed and care more about the gameplay than the average casual gamer. I have no research or data to make this claim, but I would reasonably presume that having people with such a large following criticize any game excessively would not be considered good for business. NRS apparently knows so too. They would not host events such as this one otherwise.
One other thing though, and I know this is getting off topic, but as it pertains to UMK3 being romanticized. I wouldn't say it hasn't aged well, it's just that it is VERY old in general and that is a turn off to some. You show random people high level UMK3 and it's mindblowing to them. There are 2, maybe 3 components of the UMK3 gameplay, and 2D in general, that absolutely make them rough, but when it comes to character control, UMK3 is still to this day, better than any other MK game, and I say that without hyperbole. You have the most freedom to move in that game with the most sensible dashing mechanic and limitations applied on it. If I'd add one universal mechanic to it, it would be a back dash. Sub-zero's ice clone acts sort of like one, or a short jump, and it's super useful for that alone.
I am not adequately knowledgeable to discuss Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3, especially not with you. The only thing I can state is fighting games that were designed a decade or two ago would not be well-received by today's fighting game community, who would condemn even the most memorable fighting games, such as Marvel vs. Capcom 2, Third Strike, and Tekken Tag Tournament 1, for the lack of balance alone. I assume the same is accurate for Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 too. The mere fact that you have to hack the game, which some people also attempted to do with Mortal Kombat 9, means the time has come to move on and play modern fighting games.One other thing though, and I know this is getting off topic, but as it pertains to UMK3 being romanticized. I wouldn't say it hasn't aged well, it's just that it is VERY old in general and that is a turn off to some. You show random people high level UMK3 and it's mindblowing to them. There are 2, maybe 3 components of the UMK3 gameplay, and 2D in general, that absolutely make them rough, but when it comes to character control, UMK3 is still to this day, better than any other MK game, and I say that without hyperbole. You have the most freedom to move in that game with the most sensible dashing mechanic and limitations applied on it. If I'd add one universal mechanic to it, it would be a back dash. Sub-zero's ice clone acts sort of like one, or a short jump, and it's super useful for that alone.
The overall shallowness of the 2D gameplay is really what hurts them the most, and this makes a couple of those basic aspects hard to deal with. This is part of the reason why we started hacking the games, because some of us acknowledge that the simplicity can make them feel dated and there's no room to grow, but I think this applies way more to MKII. Taking in suggestions from players over the years, what really bothers them or prevents them from picking them up even for fun, making tweaks to gameplay, adding meaningful depth, but not changing the core of the game. I think the most far out idea we have is adding highly reactionable overheads to break block hogs, similar to SF.
As for MK9, there are plenty of players who legit prefer it over MKX. I don't really have an opinion on it other than, MKX has way too much going on, overkill everything. MK11 is going to be interesting.
Okay... but what about patches in any fighting game? What's the difference between patches coming down for MK9 (for example) and those who keep making changes (for the better) for UMK3?I am not adequately knowledgeable to discuss Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3, especially not with you. The only thing I can state is fighting games that were designed a decade or two ago would not be well-received by today's fighting game community, who would condemn even the most memorable fighting games, such as Marvel vs. Capcom 2, Third Strike, and Tekken Tag Tournament 1, for the lack of balance alone. I assume the same is accurate for Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 too. The mere fact that you have to hack the game, which some people also attempted to do with Mortal Kombat 9, means the time has come to move on and play modern fighting games.
When UMK3 came out for XBLA back in 2006, it was very much accepted and the playerbase for the game was actually quite large. Considering it was a 15 year old game or so at the time, having 200,000+ players on that game was quite remarkable. This was not only the first time I played any MK game competitively, it was my first fighting game I played competitively. Yes, of course this was before the modern NRS era (it was also before the FG boom caused by SF4), but I’d imagine it would be similarly received if it got a re-release on current gen consoles. Especially if the netcode was great.I am not adequately knowledgeable to discuss Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3, especially not with you. The only thing I can state is fighting games that were designed a decade or two ago would not be well-received by today's fighting game community, who would condemn even the most memorable fighting games, such as Marvel vs. Capcom 2, Third Strike, and Tekken Tag Tournament 1, for the lack of balance alone. I assume the same is accurate for Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 too. The mere fact that you have to hack the game, which some people also attempted to do with Mortal Kombat 9, means the time has come to move on and play modern fighting games.
Contemporary fighting games are patched by video game companies which have authority over communities. A single individual or a group of individuals has limited authority and influence. In other words, what I consider balanced zoning may not coincide with your definition of balanced zoning. However, when NRS releases a patch, the patched game will be the official version of the game that all players will ultimately play.Okay... but what about patches in any fighting game? What's the difference between patches coming down for MK9 (for example) and those who keep making changes (for the better) for UMK3?
I agree, the franchise should do something to get these old games playable online and compatible with the newer consoles. I mean Halo 2 is a till playable and there are tons of people playing in the regular basis, the biggest problem is that NRS does not care about these tittles.The only reason UMK3 isn't played by many is because it is not easy to "just play" (others and others online, etc). Using MAME is a royal pain... making sure you have the same version, etc..