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General/Other - Drunken Master XL Drunken Master Discussion Thread

Forbidden_Donut

"You think you bad? Pffft, You ain't bad.."
I haven't had the pleasure of facing either quite yet but I can see where you're coming from. He does have a 6frame D1 though so, aslong as you can hold the pressure for a moment, both of them can be stopped in their tracks. Don't give up hope just yet.

I'm more worried about the Kitana match up personally. Good zoning to keep you out and when you do get in she has forward advancing, fast hitting strings (in comparison to BRC). I played a Kitana the other day and all I could do was D4 with nothing to follow it up.

On a side note; does DD3~2 have any anti-air potential? I feel like it should but I can't check st the moment.
Kitana is tough but I feel like I've found a pretty good solution to dealing with her. If she is throwing fans, you can b4 under them and hold down and advance roll through her next fan to close the gap. I use b4 hold down A LOT in every matchup but it's especially helpful against kitana and acidic alien. If she tries to do any advancing string you can roll right through it and easily rc punish. If she jumps, you can do 2 out of the sexy pose and anti air, but it's hard because you have to let her get pretty close to you. Just wanted to share that with you, hope it helps.
 

BigMacMcLovin

B2s and Birdarangs
Kitana is tough but I feel like I've found a pretty good solution to dealing with her. If she is throwing fans, you can b4 under them and hold down and advance roll through her next fan to close the gap. I use b4 hold down A LOT in every matchup but it's especially helpful against kitana and acidic alien. If she tries to do any advancing string you can roll right through it and easily rc punish. If she jumps, you can do 2 out of the sexy pose and anti air, but it's hard because you have to let her get pretty close to you. Just wanted to share that with you, hope it helps.
Yeah I think I just need to work on my timing. I did use the record AI option in training to get Kitana to through different fans at different heights. It's a pain to navigate but it is possible.

Thanks
 

TotallyNotKotalKahn

Low Tier Addict
im having a hard time being consistent with the b4d sticking, i dont know what im doing wrong but about 1 in evry 4 or 5 times he just stands up. lame.
 

BigMacMcLovin

B2s and Birdarangs
im having a hard time being consistent with the b4d sticking, i dont know what im doing wrong but about 1 in evry 4 or 5 times he just stands up. lame.
Yeah I've struggled with that myself. One time it turned out that I'd actually picked his flame variation :eek:

I can't figure out of its the online or my scruffy input in the heat of the moment. I mostly leaning towards the second option though.
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
I started playing this guy for curiosity, and at first Drunken Master seemed the most fun.

But....I can't see why I would use this variation over Dragon Breath.
All setups and things posted here with ex fart can be done in any variation.
The only thing DM has is extended combos with dd3 3, but I can get the same damage with normal combos in DB as well.

dd3 as a mixup has no overhead and everything is unsafe so the only thing usable out of it is the roll.

Drinking gives option to use db1 and df1 to keep drinking, but i can use db2 and not bother dinking at all. bf3 can't see the point as we have bf4 on all varations.

DB gives a great anti air, unblockable and dot damage.

I can't for the life of me see what to do with DM, I thought keep drinking to keep mixups going, but drinking doesn't give any extra mixups whatsoever and all the other mixups can be done in all variations so why bother?

Maybe you guys can straighten me out? The only usefull stuff in DM is the dd3 roll, but compared to the antiair and unblockable in DB, it seems weaker overall.
 

BigMacMcLovin

B2s and Birdarangs
DD3 in DM is more then a mix up. It allows for easier hit confirms off strings that are usually more difficult, it allows you to roll to avoid projectiles and attacks as it has some invincibility, exDD3 can be used to armour and launch through gaps in strings or specials.

DD3 allows Bo the chance to cover his weaknesses in a way the other two variations don't.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
I started playing this guy for curiosity, and at first Drunken Master seemed the most fun.

But....I can't see why I would use this variation over Dragon Breath.
All setups and things posted here with ex fart can be done in any variation.
The only thing DM has is extended combos with dd3 3, but I can get the same damage with normal combos in DB as well.

dd3 as a mixup has no overhead and everything is unsafe so the only thing usable out of it is the roll.

Drinking gives option to use db1 and df1 to keep drinking, but i can use db2 and not bother dinking at all. bf3 can't see the point as we have bf4 on all varations.

DB gives a great anti air, unblockable and dot damage.

I can't for the life of me see what to do with DM, I thought keep drinking to keep mixups going, but drinking doesn't give any extra mixups whatsoever and all the other mixups can be done in all variations so why bother?

Maybe you guys can straighten me out? The only usefull stuff in DM is the dd3 roll, but compared to the antiair and unblockable in DB, it seems weaker overall.
The biggest issue of Drunken Master is drinking, the tools he gains when he is drunk are very useful, but the drinking cooldown is pretty bad, since the moment you recover from a drink, you only have 9 seconds to land anything, most of the time, you will end up landing it, when you have 1 to 2 seconds left.

So most of the time, you want to choose between stay drunk to not lose the buffs, or punishing something and lose all the buffs, as result, you end up not doing pretty well, specially when half of your moves last for 3 seconds, taking more of your drinking time away.

And that is if you're are got at doing well with DM, because if you use bf3 after you drink, you will have to drink, because if the opponent stands and apply pressure, you won't be out before your time runs out.

The command grab string is flashy when he is drunk but doesn't grant a drink afterwards, same for db2 meterless.

F2 hits high.
Can't drink in meditate state
The massive juggle window being thigh as hell from different juggles.

These along with the 10 seconds cool down is a lot of risk for such a low reward to gain, imo 10 seconds drunk as cool down its not enough to establish a neutral game based on the tools he has, it should be 20 seconds, since he doesn't lose the buffs if he gets hit.
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
That's exactly what happens to me indeed.
Whenever I land something I vomit mid combo, or I have to drop the combo early to re-drink, causing a vicious circle.

Drinking and then waiting for to use MB dd3 to punish gaps has the same result, most of the time I take the pressure and when I use MB dd3, i have 2-3 seconds to hit something before i vomit, so I just used a bar for very very little reward, as I have to redrink very fast.

:(
 

TotallyNotKotalKahn

Low Tier Addict
The biggest issue of Drunken Master is drinking, the tools he gains when he is drunk are very useful, but the drinking cooldown is pretty bad, since the moment you recover from a drink, you only have 9 seconds to land anything, most of the time, you will end up landing it, when you have 1 to 2 seconds left.

So most of the time, you want to choose between stay drunk to not lose the buffs, or punishing something and lose all the buffs, as result, you end up not doing pretty well, specially when half of your moves last for 3 seconds, taking more of your drinking time away.

And that is if you're are got at doing well with DM, because if you use bf3 after you drink, you will have to drink, because if the opponent stands and apply pressure, you won't be out before your time runs out.

The command grab string is flashy when he is drunk but doesn't grant a drink afterwards, same for db2 meterless.

F2 hits high.
Can't drink in meditate state
The massive juggle window being thigh as hell from different juggles.

These along with the 10 seconds cool down is a lot of risk for such a low reward to gain, imo 10 seconds drunk as cool down its not enough to establish a neutral game based on the tools he has, it should be 20 seconds, since he doesn't lose the buffs if he gets hit.

I was talking about this on /r/mortalkombat and what i would do to balance this woul be 1 of 2 routes:

1) the easy way. This would be the minimum amount of adjusting that would make the biggest impact. Puke resets the hangover timer. Its relatively safe, fast and can be done aggressively to extend time in the drunk state. Plus it makes visual and logical sense, he is literally doing the same exact thing as he does when he gets hangover just facing different directions.

2) the complicated way:
Hangover: remove hangover from lvl1(lvl2 as well if they are feeling generous), puke resets timer, able to cancel into meditation from drink by holding 1 or down, this makes it more of a risk to punish for the opponent. Make drink 2 in 1 cancellable into headbutt/monkeyflips/puke/db1/df1. this last bit may be a bit overboard.

on meditation: Make it so that you can wakeup into meditaiton without standing. Make meditations hitbox the same as a neutral duck, right now you can be grabbed out of it and its pretty easy to hit him. Personally i would make it only accessable to lows, but i digress.
 

FrankOceansWaifu

Watch this set up.
I try to end everything in a drink. All my combos, grabs, knockdowns end with a drink. Also his df2 barf is such a great footsie tool. Great for incoming jump ins which lead to full combos and more drinks. The range is super deceptive, it's got a quick start up, fast recovery, ex version is -7 on block iirc. Sometimes i hold off on getting to level 3 drunk because it has less vertical range so no AA :,(
 

BigMacMcLovin

B2s and Birdarangs
The biggest issue of Drunken Master is drinking, the tools he gains when he is drunk are very useful, but the drinking cooldown is pretty bad, since the moment you recover from a drink, you only have 9 seconds to land anything, most of the time, you will end up landing it, when you have 1 to 2 seconds left.

So most of the time, you want to choose between stay drunk to not lose the buffs, or punishing something and lose all the buffs, as result, you end up not doing pretty well, specially when half of your moves last for 3 seconds, taking more of your drinking time away.

And that is if you're are got at doing well with DM, because if you use bf3 after you drink, you will have to drink, because if the opponent stands and apply pressure, you won't be out before your time runs out.

The command grab string is flashy when he is drunk but doesn't grant a drink afterwards, same for db2 meterless.

F2 hits high.
Can't drink in meditate state
The massive juggle window being thigh as hell from different juggles.

These along with the 10 seconds cool down is a lot of risk for such a low reward to gain, imo 10 seconds drunk as cool down its not enough to establish a neutral game based on the tools he has, it should be 20 seconds, since he doesn't lose the buffs if he gets hit.
You also have to consider that a drink doesn't refuel him from start up. The first few frames of DD1 still count in the timer so technically he has even less time.

It's annoying when you get a drink at the end of a combo and he vomits just as the bottle touches his drunk ass lips.
 
You also have to consider that a drink doesn't refuel him from start up. The first few frames of DD1 still count in the timer so technically he has even less time.

It's annoying when you get a drink at the end of a combo and he vomits just as the bottle touches his drunk ass lips.
Yeah it really breaks my heart every time I get canceled out of drink to vomit.
 

Trauma_and_Pain

Filthy Casual
I just started screwing around with Drunken Master the other day. Seems like Cho's neutral game is just really uncomfortable and difficult to work with. It's a combination of his normals being slow and short range.

Maybe it's because I'm new to him or he's just weird like that, but other than
B2 it seems like he mostly needs to play right in the opponent's face. I see you guys mentioned using sexy pose to roll forward and apparently that gives you invincibility during the roll--is that how you guys get in? Seems a bit risky.

I'm also wondering what use there is for
DF1, it doesn't seem to show up much in combos. I learned those DF1 punches in a Tai Chi class. Pretty swaggy.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
I just started screwing around with Drunken Master the other day. Seems like Cho's neutral game is just really uncomfortable and difficult to work with. It's a combination of his normals being slow and short range.

Maybe it's because I'm new to him or he's just weird like that, but other than
B2 it seems like he mostly needs to play right in the opponent's face. I see you guys mentioned using sexy pose to roll forward and apparently that gives you invincibility during the roll--is that how you guys get in? Seems a bit risky.

I'm also wondering what use there is for
DF1, it doesn't seem to show up much in combos. I learned those DF1 punches in a Tai Chi class. Pretty swaggy.
You're doing drunken fists on a Tai Chi class?
 

BigMacMcLovin

B2s and Birdarangs
I just started screwing around with Drunken Master the other day. Seems like Cho's neutral game is just really uncomfortable and difficult to work with. It's a combination of his normals being slow and short range.

Maybe it's because I'm new to him or he's just weird like that, but other than
B2 it seems like he mostly needs to play right in the opponent's face. I see you guys mentioned using sexy pose to roll forward and apparently that gives you invincibility during the roll--is that how you guys get in? Seems a bit risky.

I'm also wondering what use there is for
DF1, it doesn't seem to show up much in combos. I learned those DF1 punches in a Tai Chi class. Pretty swaggy.
Yeah his neutral is pretty awkward to get used to. So far like marinjuana said, I'm using D4 and DF2 aswell as F2. If you work on your spacing then you can really get stuff going.

Try using db4 and exdb4 in the neutral also to give yourself some some space control. It just give the opponent something else to think about.

His roll is a great tool, you should definitely try to use it as much as situations allow. Once you get it down you'll be avoiding things, anti airing and launching before you know it. It's definitely not to be underestimated.

At face value he seems like a lot of hard work but I can't help but feel like we're missing something and the struggle will pay off eventually.
 

Darumm

Noob
DF1 has no gaps, I have to properly test it but it looks like it can make things safe and do some chip damage, then again, I haven't properly tested it yet.
 

BigMacMcLovin

B2s and Birdarangs
Woow that sucks.

Could've used db1 instead of db2 to end the combo in the corner though and that would've saved it.

The roll to cross over whilst dodging the ice ball was nice as hell.
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Yes could've jumpined into 21 into full combo but I was so happy I hit something I just mashed whatever came into my brain. Eventually when I begin to feel the character more I probably wouldn't do unoptimal stuff. I hope ^^