Who Do You Think Is Top 5 In EO Beta?

[WiseM0nkey]

Pressure
EX Spin fastest move in entire game (if not is top 3 for sure)
Teleport safe in many situations

and only with those tools Lao can wipe the entire roster

u now thats true bruh , thats no sin using Lao , but its true that lao is OP since MK 2...

Btw congrats for all ur wins foxy u deserve it , ur matchs r highly enjoyable .

alright dude, i was actually being ironic before.

Ex spin it's best AA tool, and it's no different from other armored launchers. acutally there are launchers that are safe on block in this game, so nope, not a winning move

what pressure are you talking about? it's not that im jailing you, and everything i do as follow up on ex hat can be poked out or armored out. now that EX hat is at +7 means that Lao has to bait armor everytime he spends a bar for plus frames. he doesnt have 50/50s.

Teleport safe??!?! wtf lol, you even play the game? his teleport is one of the most unsafe things in the game, wich "Safe Teleport" are you talking about?

and no, these tools alone doesnt make him wipe the entire roster.

your reasonings for him being OP are kinda weak and nonsense.

 

[TotteryManx]

Pressure
EX Spin fastest move in entire game (if not is top 3 for sure)
Teleport safe in many situations

and only with those tools Lao can wipe the entire roster

u now thats true bruh , thats no sin using Lao , but its true that lao is OP since MK 2...

Btw congrats for all ur wins foxy u deserve it , ur matchs r highly enjoyable .

Teleport safe?

 

[Hara-Killer]

alright dude, i was actually being ironic before.

Ex spin it's best AA tool, and it's no different from other armored launchers. acutally there are launchers that are safe on block in this game, so nope, not a winning move

what pressure are you talking about? it's not that im jailing you, and everything i do as follow up on ex hat can be poked out or armored out. now that EX hat is at +7 means that Lao has to bait armor everytime he spends a bar for plus frames. he doesnt have 50/50s.

Teleport safe??!?! wtf lol, you even play the game? his teleport is one of the most unsafe things in the game, wich "Safe Teleport" are you talking about?

and no, these tools alone doesnt make him wipe the entire roster.

your reasonings for him being OP are kinda weak and nonsense.

maybe i should stop using Jason against Lao , but his teleport grab is safe in 60% of times .
they said that lao get nerffed , but his pressure still top 5 for sure .


maybe my reasons sucks cause every time u fight an lao im using Jason
but thanks for replied me im moving to takeda now lets see wath happens Jason cause me too many losses online .

But don't close ur eyes , lao still Top 5 guys.

 

[Mykal NS]

Demo can still do 6 nade combos btw. They just scale more.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Pressure
EX Spin fastest move in entire game (if not is top 3 for sure)
Teleport safe in many situations

and only with those tools Lao can wipe the entire roster

u now thats true bruh , thats no sin using Lao , but its true that lao is OP since MK 2...

Btw congrats for all ur wins foxy u deserve it , ur matchs r highly enjoyable .

Right, his pressure only comes from spending meter, and 2 of the he uses afterwards make him lose his turn and force him to either spin or block, he can't move (very important). His only +moves for pressure come from an 8f high (so any character with a 6f normal doesn't have to respect his 'pressure') so he's kinda weak to fast low pokes, which means you gotta throw people loads in a round to win. Either that or check people with f2, which again loses him his turn unless he wants to spend a bar for +frames.

Also, his main pressure string has a gap in it that a lot of characters can full combo punish him for doing.

Teleport is just all round a bad move and he doesn't have any safe teleport set ups anyway. And especially considering the reward from a successful teleport is greatly overshadowed by the opponents potential to punish it in most cases. This is a golden rule of playing Kung Lao 'never teleport'.

His general design seems good but his frame data and movement just don't really work for him. He can be -3 and automatically be forced to hold whatever anybody with at least an 11f mid has to put on him, so for example:

Shinnok gets guaranteed f4 check
Kitana gets guaranteed b1 check
Mileena b12
Cage f3
Cassie b1
Kotal b1
Liu b1
Lao f2

And so on.

He doesn't have the luxury of using his normals for baiting a response for example, using max range f2 to bait pokes against a lot of characters because his walk back sucks.

Another thing about him is he has no real comeback factor, the only reason you get hit by Lao is because you're pressing buttons when you shouldn't be, but it's usually quite clear where his pressure ends.

His neutral game forces him into these situations I've listed, because his hat 'zoning' will only get him so far.

So IMO Lao isn't (in the current build or the beta) this amazing top 1 character everybody's been freaking out about, he's just had multiple good representatives in tournament. Which is fair considering he stops people from jumping, which seems to be a staple habit for a lot of MK players.

And if you wanna talk about ex spin, it's usually more of a risk to Lao to spin, than it is his opponent. But again, people don't wanna bait.

If you wanna see the weaknesses of Lao exposed, just watch any footage of me in the mirror up to this point. I put what I say into practice.

 

[EMPR_FEAR]

Jacqui and jacqui <3 :c

 

[Hara-Killer]

Right, his pressure only comes from spending meter, and 2 of the he uses afterwards make him lose his turn and force him to either spin or block, he can't move (very important). His only +moves for pressure come from an 8f high (so any character with a 6f normal doesn't have to respect his 'pressure') so he's kinda weak to fast low pokes, which means you gotta throw people loads in a round to win. Either that or check people with f2, which again loses him his turn unless he wants to spend a bar for +frames.

Also, his main pressure string has a gap in it that a lot of characters can full combo punish him for doing.

Teleport is just all round a bad move and he doesn't have any safe teleport set ups anyway. And especially considering the reward from a successful teleport is greatly overshadowed by the opponents potential to punish it in most cases. This is a golden rule of playing Kung Lao 'never teleport'.

His general design seems good but his frame data and movement just don't really work for him. He can be -3 and automatically be forced to hold whatever anybody with at least an 11f mid has to put on him, so for example:

Shinnok gets guaranteed f4 check
Kitana gets guaranteed b1 check
Mileena b12
Cage f3
Cassie b1
Kotal b1
Liu b1
Lao f2

And so on.

He doesn't have the luxury of using his normals for baiting a response for example, using max range f2 to bait pokes against a lot of characters because his walk back sucks.

Another thing about him is he has no real comeback factor, the only reason you get hit by Lao is because you're pressing buttons when you shouldn't be, but it's usually quite clear where his pressure ends.

His neutral game forces him into these situations I've listed, because his hat 'zoning' will only get him so far.

So IMO Lao isn't (in the current build or the beta) this amazing top 1 character everybody's been freaking out about, he's just had multiple good representatives in tournament. Which is fair considering he stops people from jumping, which seems to be a staple habit for a lot of MK players.

And if you wanna talk about ex spin, it's usually more of a risk to Lao to spin, than it is his opponent. But again, people don't wanna bait.

If you wanna see the weaknesses of Lao exposed, just watch any footage of me in the mirror up to this point. I put what I say into practice.

Thanks Foxy i apreciate ur atention here explaining the gaps ,gonna pick Liu and Kotal , definitly will to lab now , hope this discussion dont piss u of
Elder God Bless u Daily my friend .

 

[Paul the Octopus]

Right, his pressure only comes from spending meter, and 2 of the he uses afterwards make him lose his turn and force him to either spin or block, he can't move (very important). His only +moves for pressure come from an 8f high (so any character with a 6f normal doesn't have to respect his 'pressure') so he's kinda weak to fast low pokes, which means you gotta throw people loads in a round to win. Either that or check people with f2, which again loses him his turn unless he wants to spend a bar for +frames.

Also, his main pressure string has a gap in it that a lot of characters can full combo punish him for doing.

Teleport is just all round a bad move and he doesn't have any safe teleport set ups anyway. And especially considering the reward from a successful teleport is greatly overshadowed by the opponents potential to punish it in most cases. This is a golden rule of playing Kung Lao 'never teleport'.

His general design seems good but his frame data and movement just don't really work for him. He can be -3 and automatically be forced to hold whatever anybody with at least an 11f mid has to put on him, so for example:

Shinnok gets guaranteed f4 check
Kitana gets guaranteed b1 check
Mileena b12
Cage f3
Cassie b1
Kotal b1
Liu b1
Lao f2

And so on.

He doesn't have the luxury of using his normals for baiting a response for example, using max range f2 to bait pokes against a lot of characters because his walk back sucks.

Another thing about him is he has no real comeback factor, the only reason you get hit by Lao is because you're pressing buttons when you shouldn't be, but it's usually quite clear where his pressure ends.

His neutral game forces him into these situations I've listed, because his hat 'zoning' will only get him so far.

So IMO Lao isn't (in the current build or the beta) this amazing top 1 character everybody's been freaking out about, he's just had multiple good representatives in tournament. Which is fair considering he stops people from jumping, which seems to be a staple habit for a lot of MK players.

And if you wanna talk about ex spin, it's usually more of a risk to Lao to spin, than it is his opponent. But again, people don't wanna bait.

If you wanna see the weaknesses of Lao exposed, just watch any footage of me in the mirror up to this point. I put what I say into practice.

I do not agree that Shinnok has a guaranteed f4 check after a blocked regular hat spin. At -3, KL can enforce a guessing game with ex spin which is in his favour. Ex spin costs a meter and yields 35% plus follow up pressure if KL guesses right. If he guesses wrong, Shinnok has to spend a bar to get substantially less than 35% and arguably weaker follow up pressure.

I realise it's not your style to attempt these risky guesses but I really do think that's personal preference, not that ex spin is this suicidal choice which no rational player should ever attempt, especially in certain matchups. In other matchups, I agree it's more of a risk to Lao to spin, but it's still not this horrendous risk/reward as you're implying.

Ex spin is a fantastic tool. The guessing game isn't always in his favour but it shouldn't be, and it's still WAY better than the options most other characters have when they are at negative frames.

If you want to argue that his offense/ability to open people up is underwhelming - I can buy that, especially in the beta. But Ex Spin - no way, it's fantastic.

If I'm wrong, let me know but as of now I really don't see it.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I do not agree that Shinnok has a guaranteed f4 check after a blocked regular hat spin. At -3, KL can enforce a guessing game with ex spin which is in his favour. Ex spin costs a meter and yields 35% plus follow up pressure if KL guesses right. If he guesses wrong, Shinnok has to spend a bar to get substantially less than 35% and arguably weaker follow up pressure.

I realise it's not your style to attempt these risky guesses but I really do think that's personal preference, not that ex spin is this suicidal choice which no rational player should ever attempt, especially in certain matchups. In other matchups, I agree it's more of a risk to Lao to spin, but it's still not this horrendous risk/reward as you're implying.

Ex spin is a fantastic tool. The guessing game isn't always in his favour but it shouldn't be, and it's still WAY better than the options most other characters have when they are at negative frames.

If you want to argue that his offense/ability to open people up is underwhelming - I can buy that, especially in the beta. But Ex Spin - no way, it's fantastic.

If I'm wrong, let me know but as of now I really don't see it.

KL cant spin at -3, he has no hat. F4 is guaranteed check, go test it yourself. Its not an opinion its a fact.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Jump back dive kick bro, everytime you're -3 just jump back dive kick

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Jump back dive kick bro, everytime you're -3 just jump back dive kick

Doesn't work. Like I said, go try jump back divekick against some of the moves I listed when -3. Doesn't work.

Work on your timing

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

I think ex spin being able to punish almost anything is the bigger issue they need to fix. Make it 8f

 

[KIllaByte]

Doesn't work. Like I said, go try jump back divekick against some of the moves I listed when -3. Doesn't work.

Work on your timing

Right, his pressure only comes from spending meter, and 2 of the he uses afterwards make him lose his turn and force him to either spin or block, he can't move (very important). His only +moves for pressure come from an 8f high (so any character with a 6f normal doesn't have to respect his 'pressure') so he's kinda weak to fast low pokes, which means you gotta throw people loads in a round to win. Either that or check people with f2, which again loses him his turn unless he wants to spend a bar for +frames.

Also, his main pressure string has a gap in it that a lot of characters can full combo punish him for doing.

Teleport is just all round a bad move and he doesn't have any safe teleport set ups anyway. And especially considering the reward from a successful teleport is greatly overshadowed by the opponents potential to punish it in most cases. This is a golden rule of playing Kung Lao 'never teleport'.

His general design seems good but his frame data and movement just don't really work for him. He can be -3 and automatically be forced to hold whatever anybody with at least an 11f mid has to put on him, so for example:

Shinnok gets guaranteed f4 check
Kitana gets guaranteed b1 check
Mileena b12
Cage f3
Cassie b1
Kotal b1
Liu b1
Lao f2

And so on.

He doesn't have the luxury of using his normals for baiting a response for example, using max range f2 to bait pokes against a lot of characters because his walk back sucks.

Another thing about him is he has no real comeback factor, the only reason you get hit by Lao is because you're pressing buttons when you shouldn't be, but it's usually quite clear where his pressure ends.

His neutral game forces him into these situations I've listed, because his hat 'zoning' will only get him so far.

So IMO Lao isn't (in the current build or the beta) this amazing top 1 character everybody's been freaking out about, he's just had multiple good representatives in tournament. Which is fair considering he stops people from jumping, which seems to be a staple habit for a lot of MK players.

And if you wanna talk about ex spin, it's usually more of a risk to Lao to spin, than it is his opponent. But again, people don't wanna bait.

If you wanna see the weaknesses of Lao exposed, just watch any footage of me in the mirror up to this point. I put what I say into practice.

I agree with most of your post, but

Obviously teleport is nothing to base a game or round around, but I feel that you can condition your way to safety with under circumstances. No one is well adjusted to anti-airing it after the blockstun of an orbiting hat or hat dance, it's a huge gimmick and potential meter waste ( which isalready valuable enough to Lao) but "never teleport" seems pretty extreme. Once or twice per set seems fine with me, and I'm probably the best at punishing Lao teleports of any person I know, my reaction to the noise of the teleport is absurdly fast for some reason. Ask winter warz or Ludi, lmao

Teleport can still guarantee a combo whiff punish against some risky space control moves, I particularly like it against characters like Lasher Takeda that like to hammer in strings hoping to make you block. Ask winter warz or Ludi, lmao

For the rest of the thread: Crystaline Tremor will be number one if unchanged, no doubt. Who knows with the new DLC... Predator could become even more well rounded with potential upcoming warrior buffs, he could have three great variations a la Jax (who'll still be amazing too) and evidently Johnny Cage could be 2 or even 1, considering the buffs he's received in the beta too. I struggle against Mileena now, but I kind of used to, too.

 

[Tweedy]

I mean this as a sincere question.

What is stopping Ronin Takada from being Top 5 or Takada in general for that matter?

Like Roning B11 does almost the same as Mileenas B12 plus Ronning has a 3 part of that string that launches and is only -5

Before the beta I felt really good about using War God vs Takeda, since he can't gimmick me out after a blocked low kunai. The stamina tax on both players after a breaker was actually a pretty significant buff to Takeda in this match up. War God can only do work when he's in. Being sent fullscreen with no stamina is super rough.

So yeah, one of his potential bad match ups, was likely made a 5-5 by an indirect buff. The character is definitely up there.

 

[navaroNe]

main problem i had with lao was his ridiculous jip which im very glad was adjusted. lao probably got more hit confirms off ji2's then he did from people pressing buttons or guessing wrong or whatever. also as far as ronin goes his b11 string doesn't advance like mileena's b12 and the third hit of it will go over their head if they're crouching or whiff if they're a little out of range so it's kind of a risk to go for sometimes. i dont play a whole lot of ronin but that's what i recall atleast

 

[Tweedy]

Lao's teleport is a bad move. It doesn't matter if you haven't adjusted to it on this game, or if it's good online. The move is bad, this isn't something that can be debated. Lao players have exhausted it's uses.

Some of us have mastered instant airing it. Some of us use it during strings. Green eggs and ham boyz, I tell ya it doesn't matter.

 

[Infamous]

Well if you want my opinion, akro plays the character 'wrong' by being unsafe on near enough everything. He's a very yolo player.
I'm not ignorant of her players, I've seen them all, and played a vast majority of them too.

I think the difference in perspective I bring to Mileena (using what I've learned playing Lao) is the side of patience, which you guys don't really have besides Saltface. (Who was MIA) As well as having solid spacing, creates a different style that most haven't really seen yet is all.

If you really want to liken my style to any other Mileena player, it'd definitely be to usedforglue.

@Akromaniac27
Are you as yolo as Foxy has just deemed you?

 

[Tweedy]

@Akromaniac27
Are you as yolo as Foxy has just deemed you?

Dude told me that the speed of a poke doesn't matter on this game.

Give Lao a 6 frame poke if so pl0x.

 

[Infamous]

Dude told me that the speed of a poke doesn't matter on this game.

Give Lao a 6 frame poke if so pl0x.

Which dude? Akro? If so, yeah, I tuned in to his stream once and about died from second hand embarassment.

Roll. Roll. Armored roll. Mash poke. Mash poke.

 

[The_Tile]

Liu Kang
Johnny Cage
Kano
Quan Chi
Scorpion or Subzero

Without being an asshole, Im curious why you think Quan will remain top 5 after the nerfs?

 

[SneakyTortoise]

Without being an asshole, Im curious why you think Quan will remain top 5 after the nerfs?

I don't think the nerfs are bad at all and he got some nice buffs.
If sorcerer corners you he still has an insane armour game, purple spell buffs are great too. I really think the purple spell playstyle will be dirty AF.
I think summoner is fine now.
I have no opinion on warlock.

 

[Paul the Octopus]

KL cant spin at -3, he has no hat. F4 is guaranteed check, go test it yourself. Its not an opinion its a fact.

Ah yes, fair point. I was thinking of situations where KL is at negative frames in general, but I agree with you on the situation right after regular hat spin.

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

Lao's teleport is a bad move. It doesn't matter if you haven't adjusted to it on this game,

it was so cheap in mk9 that lao players got accustomed to having a bs move, unless the rest of his arsenal is normalized he cannot have a faster teleport

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

I have no clue why people are so fixated on the number 5. It just spreads this false idea that the top 5 are so much better than the rest when in reality at this point there isn't that big of a difference in quality of the top 1-3 and 6-10, they probably share a tier even. Like most of the top 15 MKX characters have the tools to be broke as fuck in a game like injustice but in the context of this game it is pretty well balanced. Anyhow, point is the top 5 DONT have a significant advantage over the next 10 or 15 characters.

Because it's much easier to point out top 5 characters in a game vs top 10...especially in MKX because, while the whole cast is balanced, 6-15 are super even.

Besides, this isn't to be taken seriously...just letting people open their minds about characters and their tools pre-MKXL.

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

Lao's teleport is a bad move. It doesn't matter if you haven't adjusted to it on this game, or if it's good online. The move is bad, this isn't something that can be debated. Lao players have exhausted it's uses.

Some of us have mastered instant airing it. Some of us use it during strings. Green eggs and ham boyz, I tell ya it doesn't matter.

I played yucking yesterday and out of the 6 matches we did, he did maybe a total of 8 teleport and I d1'd on reaction to 6 of them. The other 2 is cuz I was throwing chakram lol

Lao's Tele is garbage