Strategy - Raiden Where does Raiden stand now?

[buyacushun]

B2,Df2 doesn't give you 33%. Canceling the ex teleport makes b2 safe. Like -1. Just go for f1 after the teleport, if it hits you get a combo. No one is going to punish the f1 follow up if they block, they'd have to react in 8 frames

If it's negative then shouldn't you do b1? If you can even squeeze out a normal and not get counter poked. Can you tell me if MoS orbs cause hitstun or blockstun? People keep mentioning it but if it's like noxious gas I wouldn't get my hopes up.

 

[buyacushun]

Please someone confirm my 2 questions!!!!! Can you combo off of lightning ball with f1? Does MoS orbs inflict hitstun/blockstun?

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I like the MoS and Displacer buffs, but I feel they should have given Thunder God a buff to compensate for removing OS. F1 being changed from Mid to High was a pretty big hit and now this?! Unless those hitbox fixes on B1, 1 do wonders for his normal game, I fear for TG. I think he still has the best 50/50s and corner pressure in the game, but the problem is how to get them to the corner.

Really hyped about Displacer and MoS though! Now I can finally play a proper Raiden with awesome teleports into pressure and 50/50s. And MoS's single orbs do damage! Man, I was hoping for that. Now, more than ever, I feel MoS has the potential to be top tier.

Holy fuck really?

The character was balanced around the OS not being there. It IS ok for characters to be punishable for some things

 

[infamy23]

Please someone confirm my 2 questions!!!!! Can you combo off of lightning ball with f1? Does MoS orbs inflict hitstun/blockstun?

f1 does not combo after lightning ball. I have no idea what auto-block means but it does not seem to mean what people are saying all over this site.

 

[infamy23]

Also I've only had the patch for 30 minutes but here is 2 things I've noticed.

The frames on his b2 have been modified. I noticed it right away, it seemed slower. I tested it with my capture card and I can verify that it is still 13 frame startup, but for some reason the 2nd hit is landing 3 frames slower than it was before. It is now listed as -32 on block instead of -63

Here is the biggest change for me. At first I thought it was a nerf and I was ready to cry. I immediately noticed that I could not do ANY of my LRC combos. It appears that they've added some kind of input restriction to his run cancel. Whenever I do b14 db1 ff+block, I always hold the block button until I've pressed 214. I am unable to do this now. The game forces me to tap block instead of holding it. If I hold block for even a few frames, the run cancel does not come out.

I am going to have to retrain 4 months worth of muscle memory. I dunno why the hell they would change something like that.

 

[gabesena]

Also I've only had the patch for 30 minutes but here is 2 things I've noticed.

The frames on his b2 have been modified. I noticed it right away, it seemed slower. I tested it with my capture card and I can verify that it is still 13 frame startup, but for some reason the 2nd hit is landing 3 frames slower than it was before. It is now listed as -32 on block instead of -63

Here is the biggest change for me. At first I thought it was a nerf and I was ready to cry. I immediately noticed that I could not do ANY of my LRC combos. It appears that they've added some kind of input restriction to his run cancel. Whenever I do b14 db1 ff+block, I always hold the block button until I've pressed 214. I am unable to do this now. The game forces me to tap block instead of holding it. If I hold block for even a few frames, the run cancel does not come out.

I am going to have to retrain 4 months worth of muscle memory. I dunno why the hell they would change something like that.

This is happening to every run cancel characters...

 

[IMakeItL00kC00L]

Also I've only had the patch for 30 minutes but here is 2 things I've noticed.

The frames on his b2 have been modified. I noticed it right away, it seemed slower. I tested it with my capture card and I can verify that it is still 13 frame startup, but for some reason the 2nd hit is landing 3 frames slower than it was before. It is now listed as -32 on block instead of -63

Here is the biggest change for me. At first I thought it was a nerf and I was ready to cry. I immediately noticed that I could not do ANY of my LRC combos. It appears that they've added some kind of input restriction to his run cancel. Whenever I do b14 db1 ff+block, I always hold the block button until I've pressed 214. I am unable to do this now. The game forces me to tap block instead of holding it. If I hold block for even a few frames, the run cancel does not come out.

I am going to have to retrain 4 months worth of muscle memory. I dunno why the hell they would change something like that.

I've heard this from liu kang players and johnny cage players as well

 

[delbuster]

make sure the run buffer window is still sorta big, only tapping block shouldn't be too hard to get used to

depending on how they changed the special cancel mechanics the run cancels MAY BE EASIER. i'll test when i get the chance.

 

[brizzle]

If it's negative then shouldn't you do b1? If you can even squeeze out a normal and not get counter poked. Can you tell me if MoS orbs cause hitstun or blockstun? People keep mentioning it but if it's like noxious gas I wouldn't get my hopes up.

B1 is a very strict timing to combo

 

[buyacushun]

f1 does not combo after lightning ball. I have no idea what auto-block means but it does not seem to mean what people are saying all over this site.

Thanks, that sucks. Hopefully there is just a really odd timing. I really want that relaunch . . .

As others stated, there is something weird going on with run cancels. Someone said honeybee felt thay cancelling into anything using 1 after WGC felt different.

B1 is a very strict timing to combo

I meant on block to try and get a little pressure going. I don't know how the advantage feels yet. But if you hit definitely do something else.

 

[delbuster]

As I expected lightning run cancel has a bigger window to start the first forward input because they removed the input nullification

They made it so you can't hold block to run cancel lightning but lightning will always come out. So u can do lightning and press forward earlier. Then wait a bit and press the second forward still holding 1 and tap block then you'll get the run. It's not much harder.

I'll investigate the non Thunder God combos later

 

[Raidenwins]

As I expected lightning run cancel has a bigger window to start the first forward input because they removed the input nullification

They made it so you can't hold block to run cancel lightning but lightning will always come out. So u can do lightning and press forward earlier. Then wait a bit and press the second forward still holding 1 and tap block then you'll get the run. It's not much harder.

I'll investigate the non Thunder God combos later

Is it just me or does that sound easier?

 

[MikeM]

i cant do thundergods LRC anymore. anyone else have this problem?

 

[delbuster]

you have to change your input, don't hold block when you run.
you can press forward for the first part of the dash earlier though, so that can help with the timing.

basically it's going to be a new timing.

APPARENTLY this is going to be changed to something else! so don't even bother LOL


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i tried out the midscreen displacer f12b2 f12b2 f12b2 combo. it doesn't work, i think the f12b2 string hits them further. SOMETIMES i can get all the way to f12b2 f12b2 f12... but not often.

f2 2+4 f12b2 f12b2 does work at least on sub zero, probably have to do with the positioning making it easier by letting some of the juggle hits hit late.

lol @ these nerfs to displacer and MOS though. i dunno if these were intended or not, please let me know @colt

 

[buyacushun]

f1 does not combo after lightning ball. I have no idea what auto-block means but it does not seem to mean what people are saying all over this site.

The thing is, for the notes on reptile invisible and sub zero ice aura, the notes specify that they "removed auto block which allow some combos to continue." Might be a bug with Raiden or they did something else we don't know

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i tried out the midscreen displacer f12b2 f12b2 f12b2 combo. it doesn't work, i think the f12b2 string hits them further. SOMETIMES i can get all the way to f12b2 f12b2 f12... but not often.

f2 2+4 f12b2 f12b2 does work at least on sub zero, probably have to do with the positioning making it easier by letting some of the juggle hits hit late.

lol @ these nerfs to displacer and MOS though. i dunno if these were intended or not, please let me know @colt

What exactly do you mean? f12b2 had something changed and now a combo doesn't work anymore?

 

[Shawnzzy]

Please someone confirm my 2 questions!!!!! Can you combo off of lightning ball with f1? Does MoS orbs inflict hitstun/blockstun?

MoS orbs do not inflict hitstun nor blockstun. His orbs do 0.20% damage per half second. You can also 2 on top of each other to double the effect until the trap goes off which of course has hit and block stun. I like the idea of being able to put a ball on them in the corner to get that extra damage and make them sweat a bit, similar to 50/50 Black's pocket change.

 

[delbuster]

What exactly do you mean? f12b2 had something changed and now a combo doesn't work anymore?

yep, f12b2 f12b2 f12b2 doesnt work, either the third f1 doesn't hit, or the b2 of the third f12b2 doesn't hit

 

[buyacushun]

yep, f12b2 f12b2 f12b2 doesnt work, either the third f1 doesn't hit, or the b2 of the third f12b2 doesn't hit

I think I'm seeing reports of that everywhere. Might have to do with changing properties to "hit more consistently on ducking opponents and in combos". Lot of iffy stuff going in this patch. You should report that to the patch glitch thread.

http://testyourmight.com/threads/stealth-changes-with-8-31-patch.55707/

 

[buyacushun]

MoS orbs do not inflict hitstun nor blockstun. His orbs do 0.20% damage per half second. You can also 2 on top of each other to double the effect until the trap goes off which of course has hit and block stun. I like the idea of being able to put a ball on them in the corner to get that extra damage and make them sweat a bit, similar to 50/50 Black's pocket change.

Oh, I actually don't care about that then. I mean it's cool it's there now but it doesn't seem to really fit anything Raiden's doing.

 

[buyacushun]

So messed around with the new orb really quickly and I honestly am disappointed by it and will probably never notice it unless the health bar gods leave my opponent with a couple punches of chip left. The damage from the orb scales in combos. Does anyone know if that happens with things like Kotal sun ray, EB traps, Reptile gas?

 

[4x4lo8o]

What do you guys think of the new teleport?

It seems like it can do what it's supposed to do now - punish projectiles - but other than that it doesn't seem particularly great beyond that. It now has identical frames to the Mk9 teleport, but without the invincible startup. Different games, so it might not mean much, but I thought that was interesting.

Maybe the new combo opportunities will help a lot, I haven't explored that much yet.

 

[Dizzy]

Just theory crafting, I think Displacer will be his best variation, with a few MUs where TG is better possibly.

 

[Lil Majin]

Where does Raiden stand now? He got HUGE nerfs and miniscule buffs to compensate.

Top Raiden players like Dizzy and Digit struggled to make top 16 at major tournaments before these nerfs.

Therefore, Raiden is definitely no longer a top character who actually took skill to master and never be seen in any top 8 post-Combo Breaker. He's just on the game now.

Good thing that NRS nerfed Kung Lao's meterless 34+% combos to inflict 1% less damage than before the patch. Good thing that they buffed Quan Chi, another top 5 character.

NRS CLEARLY doesn't like Raiden.

 

[delbuster]

if he gets back his f12b2 f12b2 f12b2 combos and such that were removed w/ this 9/1/2015 patch, Displacer will be good. right now, that's a big loss.

he was definitely the best character on release day lol he did too much damage off his tools
without the b2 OS, i don't think MOS is that good, and Thunder God is outclassed by other pressure characters

 

[buyacushun]

i don't think MOS is that good, and Thunder God is outclassed by other pressure characters

Even though I'll be the first to shit on MoS orbs, I will say MoS Raiden isn't not good. Just that Displacer and TG have a better more useful gameplan. MoS stuff revolves around setup and there isn't much separating it while Displacer and TG can just do their stuff.