What's new

General/Other - Shinnok The Downplayers of Bone Shaper Shinnok

SaJa

FH_FenriR
It's completely irrelevant to bring up fucking anyone as "evidence" of balance issues, people get outplayed it's as simple as that.
Well, if you see 50 kabals in top 8 so it probably means something (the char is top tier). And if you see only 1 guy bringring Stryker in every top 8 so it also means something (the player is top tier).

Makes sens to me.
 

D. R.

Noob
I'll just break another character and hold it til another tourney if BS is uber nerfed, then the bandwagon will shift yet again. I love having fan clubs. First Kotal, then Shinnok, so who's next?

... Also, if Kombat Pack 2 is a thing and Noob happens, you're all fucked. That tech will stay mine FOREVER.

Boon, WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR??!?!?!!!!! JUST DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!






Kidding. I love sharing tech but get good you fucking scrubs.
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
Well, if you see 50 kabals in top 8 so it probably means something (the char is top tier). And if you see only 1 guy bringring Stryker in every top 8 so it also means something (the player is top tier).

Makes sens to me.
That's not just bringing up someone at all though that's looking at overall results and noticing trends and patterns. If the top 8 has multiple Shinnoks in it it's obviously worth looking into. Saying xxx beat REO means Shinnok is OP is off point, people get beat
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Are you saying that it wasn't actually normalised and will be further nerfed, or that it is an indication of the further nerfs to come?
Pardon the ambiguity, but the quotation marks were included to suggest the lack of any serious changes. +24 used to allow Shinnok to run and continue guaranteed offense. +12 allows Shinnok to run and continue guaranteed offense. I strongly dislike this type of offense and regard such loops as "easy mode" offense. Anything that builds massive meter and can be looped ought to be removed. I could not careless what it is.

@General M2Dave

If you play Shinnok and do not wish to see him nerfed, then why did you make this thread? You know how NRS operates.
I know how they operate. They slightly change overpowered top tier characters (i.e., Kung Lao and Tanya) who still remain top tier after the changes.
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
Pardon the ambiguity, but the quotation marks were included to suggest the lack of any serious changes. +24 used to allow Shinnok to run and continue guaranteed offense. +12 allows Shinnok to run and continue guaranteed offense. I strongly dislike this type of offense and regard such loops as "easy mode" offense. Anything that builds massive meter and can be looped ought to be removed. I could not careless what it is.



I know how they operate. They slightly change overpowered top tier characters (i.e., Kung Lao and Tanya) who still remain top tier after the changes.
Makes sense, yeah once you get + enough it just becomes a somewhat arbitrary number
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
Pardon the ambiguity, but the quotation marks were included to suggest the lack of any serious changes. +24 used to allow Shinnok to run and continue guaranteed offense. +12 allows Shinnok to run and continue guaranteed offense. I strongly dislike this type of offense and regard such loops as "easy mode" offense. Anything that builds massive meter and can be looped ought to be removed. I could not careless what it is.



I know how they operate. They slightly change overpowered top tier characters (i.e., Kung Lao and Tanya) who still remain top tier after the changes.
HF Scorpion.
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
Pardon the ambiguity, but the quotation marks were included to suggest the lack of any serious changes. +24 used to allow Shinnok to run and continue guaranteed offense. +12 allows Shinnok to run and continue guaranteed offense. I strongly dislike this type of offense and regard such loops as "easy mode" offense. Anything that builds massive meter and can be looped ought to be removed. I could not careless what it is.
Why don't you ever talk about DF Liu Kang. He's basically what HF Scorpion just to be.
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
I know how they operate. They slightly change overpowered top tier characters (i.e., Kung Lao and Tanya) who still remain top tier after the changes.
On this note... Can anyone actually say Dave is wrong here?

Tanya, Kung Lao, Raiden, etc... Can anyone actually name a character that was actually nerfed out of top tier?

And I don't want to hear Sub Zero, he wasn't top tier that was overplaying to the maximum, and regardless we have no idea where he was in tiers he had absolutely zero competive impact before he was nerfed. Name a proven winner who was knocked down to even mid tier which is still balanced.
 
Last edited:

D. R.

Noob
So we're basing the standard of Shinnok on if Sonic Fox can or can't beat him?

I see. Well I would say REO losing 0-2 to a Shinnok no one ever heard of is more telling than Sonic Fox winning a set.
Adonis is an old school Tekken player. He has solid fundamentals. The MK players (as a whole) gotta get out of their bubbles and do some research on other players. Fighting game experience transitions between games. There are sleepers everywhere.


I actually was working on a video and a thread before EVO, but couldn't get it finalized due to lack of time. I might still post it, but if D.R. is making one, I don't feel it's necessary for us both to make one. I might though, depends on how lazy I will be in the next 48 hours.
Go ahead if you have it. I have school work along with other obligations and this community is kind of becoming a lost cause to me. Cry nerf, don't level up. GG guys.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
Go ahead if you have it. I have school work along with other obligations and this community is kind of becoming a lost cause to me. Cry nerf, don't level up. GG guys.
Precisely why I haven't posted it yet, it isn't finished due to me having little free time + me being lazy. At this point it seems like a lost cause since he's going to be nerfed anyway. But I'll probably work on it later, lol.
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
On this note... Can anyone actually say Dave is wrong here?

Tanya, Kung Lao, Raiden, etc... Can anyone actually name a character that was actually nerfed out of top tier?

And I don't want to hear Sub Zero, he wasn't top tier that was overplaying to the maximum, and regardless we have no idea where he was in tiers he had absolutely zero competive impact before he was nerfed. Name a proven winner who was knocked down to even mid tier which is still balanced.
GM Sub was top tier. A lot of his MU's shifted after his nerfs which affected him. Also Hellfire Scorpion.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
I never claimed Shinnok wasn't good, for the record. And if characters didn't get knee jerk nerfed/buffed, I wouldn't really even care about the Shinnok scare. I just don't want to see yet another one of my mains get overnerfed. I think it's unavoidable Boneshaper Shinnok getting nerfed, I just want the nerfs to be warranted and not nerf things that he had before the buffs (7f low for instance).
 

RelentlessOhio

Divekick x 1000
A couple months ago I posted how proud I was that MKX wasn't turning into bullshit discussions like MK9 and IGAU.

I was wrong. Very wrong. It's why I've just been watching and haven't played in over a week.

Seriously we are a bunch of grown-ass men, and we bitch like a woman that's been on her period for months.

Pathetic.
 

BillStickers

Do not touch me again.
I like how matchup discussions on TYM are supposed to be "based on the highest level play except for sonic fox. He doesn't count because he's so much better than everyone." Wat.

Also people crying in Dave threads is simply the tastiest treat. Delicious chocolate for my soul. Thank you based David for letting the cup runeth over with scrub tears.
 

shura30

Shura
just put gaps here and there so backdashes/armored moves could be an option just like each other character and shinnok gets normalized without being raped by the nerf bat

even tempest lao first week was horrible because no one could escape that hat pressure, put shinnok in the same situation for god's sake
how in the hell is possible that a(ny) character has an unescapable loop?
 

True Grave

Giving The Gift Of Graves
I assure you that I have asked about these "weaknesses", but I have not yet received a coherent response. I am certain that a player like REO is incessantly checking his cellphone in Las Vegas and impatiently waiting for Juggs' advice on how to defeat Shinnok.
It's simple...USE ARMOR! And his meter is the only thing that saves him. With no meter he can't jail you lol.
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
GM Sub was top tier. A lot of his MU's shifted after his nerfs which affected him. Also Hellfire Scorpion.
Sure can you show me GM pre-nerf making waves? Because otherwise this is just speculation and all the knowledge we currently have of this game suggests otherwise, just like the fact that he didn't do shit all does as well

I like how matchup discussions on TYM are supposed to be "based on the highest level play except for sonic fox. He doesn't count because he's so much better than everyone." Wat.

Also people crying in Dave threads is simply the tastiest treat. Delicious chocolate for my soul. Thank you based David for letting the cup runeth over with scrub tears.
SonicFox is no less relevant to discussion than anyone else. Which is to say, completely irrelevant, at least when looking to the results of matches as tho they are somehow relevant to balance. We look at results as a whole, and see if characters in general have unhealthy trends, but looking at players is a silly way of doing. A bad player can outplay even a good one.


If anything however, SonicFox is often the best representation of what a character is capable of, if anything he's the BEST example to use in conversation. Sure, you can argue that "he's so much better than them he could merk most of them with Takeda" and by all means you'd be right. But because of that, it also means that the rest of them are playing at a level well below the height of competitive play and as such, are not an accurate representation of tiers at the highest competitive level. It's hard to imagine, but it's sort of like how there are characters that are OP as hell when two players pick up the game for the first time (Scorpion teleport, Sub-Zero Ice Clone, Jacqui Gunshots, etc) but fall off much harder to mid tier or lower when played at what WE currently view as "top tier competitive". SonicFox is playing on a different level and until we can see someone playing at that same level as him against him, then player outcomes are even LESS relevant than usual
 
Last edited:

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Adonis is an old school Tekken player. He has solid fundamentals. The MK players (as a whole) gotta get out of their bubbles and do some research on other players. Fighting game experience transitions between games. There are sleepers everywhere.
From an old school Tekken player myself who is lightyears better in Tekken than I ever will be in MKX, I agree and don't agree. I agree that fighting game fundamentals transfer over when you play them well. I can pick up fighters fast due to over a decade of high level Tekken and SC play. I disagree where it helps me so much that I can dominate based off of that.

Also, weirdly I agree and disagree on sleepers. Well I surely agree there are sleepers everywhere. Back in T5 DR I destroyed Justin Wong in tourney when he thought he had an easy match. No one saw it coming, so it happens. But at the same time I was using Bryan Fury, and had flawless execution and mastered taunt cancel pressure. My character was godly and my play with him was godly. So I think there's a lot of truth to what you're saying but also a lot of support that the character is usually strong in these types of situations.
 

WakeUp DP

GT MK OshTekk.
A couple months ago I posted how proud I was that MKX wasn't turning into bullshit discussions like MK9 and IGAU.

I was wrong. Very wrong. It's why I've just been watching and haven't played in over a week.

Seriously we are a bunch of grown-ass men, and we bitch like a woman that's been on her period for months.

Pathetic.
Should had learn after they nerfed subz due to the crying. After that happened I knew we were doomed!
 

Phosferrax

Original Liu Kang cop.
Sure can you show me GM pre-nerf making waves? Because otherwise this is just speculation and all the knowledge we currently have of this game suggests otherwise, just like the fact that he didn't do shit all does as well
What game were you watching? It certainly wasn't vanilla MKX.

GM made hella waves. He was seriously good, obviously top tier.