Match-up Discussion Smoke mu chart mk9

[RM AtK!]

You don't do d+1 into 2,1. You just do 2,1.

A very common scenario: I like to do d+1~cutter after a blocked f+2,1 since that string is low negative. This is a common time Johnny will be ready to counter poke since they read that. If I do 2,1 instead they'll be blown up.

this i agree with, and i put an example of that up above. how you have to mixup like that sometimes and not just low poke after every string .. so yes i get what you mean here and i said that already too above. but thats only IF the d1 cutter doesnt get stuffed also. thats what makes the whole thing a mind game.

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

y

yeah and trust me i play with chris too even in lag we both punish pokes and both make mistakes of trying to follow up with low pokes because sometimes you need to mix it up and not just give the other person a free pressure opportunity by poking after every string etc. i know you also know what i'm saying. it's all a mind game and has a lot of depth in it. but ya the message above what i said you're welcome in it as well i just want ppl to come together honestly and lvl up

yeh i want people to level up . 16bit is confused with frame data and how it works it explains a lot about him. and me and chris dnt hit confirm just 1 poke we scold each other and/or apologise lolol

 

[Qwark28]

This dude manages to sound unintelligent, ignorant, condescending, preachy and uneducated all in one thread.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

You don't do d+1 into 2,1. You just do 2,1.

A very common scenario: I like to do d+1~cutter after a blocked f+2,1 since that string is low negative. This is a common time Johnny will be ready to counter poke since they read that. If I do 2,1 instead they'll be blown up.

But u can hit her right after blocking a d1 tho. She may be able to get d1 to ass out but that is it. It being minus 15 makes it punishable. I have tried d1 smoke bomb on DJT and he just punishes me before I can get the smoke bomb out. The only thing I would be able to do is d1 smoke away (tho that isn't completely safe either). We going to have to Skype about this lol, I am still not understanding what u mean. A d1 is not safe and a d1 to special move cancel is risky as well.

 

[RM AtK!]

y

yeh i want people to level up . 16bit is confused with frame data and how it works it explains a lot about him. and me and chris dnt hit confirm just 1 poke we scold each other and/or apologise lolol

lmao yah chris says sorry to me all the time, but i always tell him not to be sorry because its not his fault i missed the punish. that's what makes the game interesting and tests everyone reactions

 

[16 Bit]

But u can hit her right after blocking a d1 tho. She may be able to get d1 to ass out but that is it. It being minus 15 makes it punishable. I have tried d1 smoke bomb on DJT and he just punishes me before I can get the smoke bomb out. The only thing I would be able to do is d1 smoke away (tho that isn't completely safe either). We going to have to Skype about this lol, I am still not understanding what u mean. A d1 is not safe and a d1 to special move cancel is risky as well.

Cage can b+3 inbetween d+1~ass.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Cage can b+3 inbetween d+1~ass.

Oh damn forgot that lol, good point.

 

[16 Bit]

no 16bit im sorry dude . i punish 90% of d1 cutters dude . your really making yourself look bad 16bit id stop if i was you now

 

[RM AtK!]

Cage can b+3 inbetween d+1~ass.

yah haha i done that to @BillStickers and @Biggs before

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

PS: The fallacy that has been thrown around here lately that you can "punish" pokes in the sense that you A) block a poke and then B) realize you blocked said poke and punish with a full combo is just that, a fallacy. This is 100% incorrect otherwise Kitana would never ever use her D1 otherwise she would get full combo punished every time. That's not how counterpoking in this game work. You can't react to it like that.

Even when you think you did, you probably didn't. What most likely happened is your opponent had to dial in whatever string after his poke and you caught him pressing buttons with a fast normal (say Cage's F3 or Jax's F4, etc...).

coolwhip rhis is NOT how mk9 frame data works lmao!!! , this is hilarious since start of this thread ive been saying how it works .if you poke d1 with kitana and cage blocks it putting her at minus 15 and she blocks straight away. your cage WILL full combo f33 np . this isnt a question of theory or maybe it's a deffinate . go on lan and practice it dude . youve been argueing with me since the beginning of this thread and been wrong the whole time. i love this

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

yet hes been right the whole time qwark......

This dude manages to sound unintelligent, ignorant, condescending, preachy and uneducated all in one thread.

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

Kitana's d+1 has virtually no block stun. You cannot see that you blocked a d+1 and then punish it. It's not as simple as the frame data being -15. Because you have to guess that the d+1 is coming the Kitana player can blow up the counter poke attempt by doing stuff other than the poke, such as throw or 2,1 into a combo. That is why world class counter poke guys like Dizzy and Cowboy are not punishing every d+1. If you are punishing every d+1 it is actually your scene that is behind on the meta because it means the guy doing the d+1 isn't mixing it up at all.

your banging your head im banging mine your going by what dizzy told you . maybe you guys reactions are slow but no offense 16bit its incorrect

 

[bettyswallaux]

Holy shi... What happened here :/

 

[16 Bit]

You're probably right. A side effect of my advanced age. I deserve props for being so successful with such a handicap.

 

[Dizzy]

But u can hit her right after blocking a d1 tho. She may be able to get d1 to ass out but that is it. It being minus 15 makes it punishable. I have tried d1 smoke bomb on DJT and he just punishes me before I can get the smoke bomb out. The only thing I would be able to do is d1 smoke away (tho that isn't completely safe either). We going to have to Skype about this lol, I am still not understanding what u mean. A d1 is not safe and a d1 to special move cancel is risky as well.

I think I can clarify a bit on this part.

Lets take the example of blocked f21 from kitana since it is fairly common and leaves you at point blank. If I decide to go for a counter poke, I have two options of approaching this.

1. React to anything, let go of block, do f3. This will beat d1, d1 xx cutter, d3 into something else. This loses to 21 and b33 (you will get hit by the second part of the string), throw, and d1 xx ass (f3 cannot hit her).

2. Do counter poke b3 on read. This beats all of the above as well as d1 xx ass, but loses to 21 and b33 still, as well as being full combo vulnerable to jump over (OS b3 is a total myth btw)

To punish d1 canceled into cutter or smoke bomb, it is impossible to see the d1 is what 16 bit saying. You are reacting to the character doing an attack and presuming it will be a d1 or d3.

If you want to talk frame data, interrupting d1 xx cutter with b3 is a 2 frame window on player 2 side, giving you only 12 frames to react (6f of startup, 6 frames of blockstun). There is no one who can react to a move in 12f in time without incorporating a read into the equation.

That is my explanation of counter poking, as seen by me. If anyone here thinks they are seeing the d1 then reacting then go play tekken and win evo for free because you will never be able to hit by any mixup

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

wish 16bits last 3 pages of what he wrote could be front page. saying only reason people punish d1s is because they input something after the d1 and dint block that -13 doesnt mean its punishable . and that you cant react to d3 in time and active frames mean nothing then i guess ; ( :/

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

I think I can clarify a bit on this part.

Lets take the example of blocked f21 from kitana since it is fairly common and leaves you at point blank. If I decide to go for a counter poke, I have two options of approaching this.

1. React to anything, let go of block, do f3. This will beat d1, d1 xx cutter, d3 into something else. This loses to 21 and b33 (you will get hit by the second part of the string), throw, and d1 xx ass (f3 cannot hit her).

2. Do counter poke b3 on read. This beats all of the above as well as d1 xx ass, but loses to 21 and b33 still, as well as being full combo vulnerable to jump over (OS b3 is a total myth btw)

To punish d1 canceled into cutter or smoke bomb, it is impossible to see the d1 is what 16 bit saying. You are reacting to the character doing an attack and presuming it will be a d1 or d3.

If you want to talk frame data, interrupting d1 xx cutter with b3 is a 2 frame window on player 2 side, giving you only 12 frames to react (6f of startup, 6 frames of blockstun). There is no one who can react to a move in 12f in time without incorporating a read into the equation.

That is my explanation of counter poking, as seen by me. If anyone here thinks they are seeing the d1 then reacting then go play tekken and win evo for free because you will never be able to hit by any mixup

dizzy your not even taking into consideration of active frames ....... do they not exist to you ? , and explain what 16bit was saying about not being able to react to d3 on hit or block lol

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

your talkin about cancel advantage too lets start with what you think is basic fundamemtals and how it works im curious to hear what you guys think/know

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

I think I can clarify a bit on this part.

Lets take the example of blocked f21 from kitana since it is fairly common and leaves you at point blank. If I decide to go for a counter poke, I have two options of approaching this.

1. React to anything, let go of block, do f3. This will beat d1, d1 xx cutter, d3 into something else. This loses to 21 and b33 (you will get hit by the second part of the string), throw, and d1 xx ass (f3 cannot hit her).

2. Do counter poke b3 on read. This beats all of the above as well as d1 xx ass, but loses to 21 and b33 still, as well as being full combo vulnerable to jump over (OS b3 is a total myth btw)

To punish d1 canceled into cutter or smoke bomb, it is impossible to see the d1 is what 16 bit saying. You are reacting to the character doing an attack and presuming it will be a d1 or d3.

If you want to talk frame data, interrupting d1 xx cutter with b3 is a 2 frame window on player 2 side, giving you only 12 frames to react (6f of startup, 6 frames of blockstun). There is no one who can react to a move in 12f in time without incorporating a read into the equation.

That is my explanation of counter poking, as seen by me. If anyone here thinks they are seeing the d1 then reacting then go play tekken and win evo for free because you will never be able to hit by any mixup

Good explanation, but u dnt have to necessarily see the d1 to punish it. U can just block and if it is a d3 or d1 u react accordingly. DJT doesn't get it either, he said u dnt need to see the d1 u just have to block and react accordingly. I am not saying u guys are wrong, but it isn't adding up.
Edit: did u guys see how DJT was counter poking at evo? He would do stuff like 1,1 then block and wait. If they did a d1 he would block the counter it with d4 automatically and etc.
Edit 2: DJT always punishes d1 smoke bomb, I can't even get it off on him so isnt that a punish?

 

[Dizzy]

Good explanation, but u dnt have to necessarily see the d1 to punish it. U can just block and if it is a d3 or d1 u react accordingly. DJT doesn't get it either, he said u dnt need to see the d1 u just have to block and react accordingly. I am not saying u guys are wrong, but it isn't adding up.

The last bit was explaining why 21 or b33 will beat someone attempting counterpoking. If you could "see" the d1 specifically then you could never trick the opponent. The point of that statement is the action you take (example: letting go of block and performing a f3 as cage) does not change regardless of what move is performed by the opponent, as long as the animation is somewhat similar.

 

[coolwhip]

no that is wrong.. you can completly punish d1 with f3 or b3.. its -15 frames d1 by itself.

Yeah, obviously. Like, this is basic frame data. Except, what he's saying is, you can't punish it ON REACTION. You can't just block Kitana's D1, react to the fact that you blocked it, and then do B3. You do it basically on a read where you just react to the merest hint of movement. If he does say, standing 2 instead of D1, you're fucked, because you'd be letting go of block to counterpoke.

 

[coolwhip]

coolwhip rhis is NOT how mk9 frame data works lmao!!! , this is hilarious since start of this thread ive been saying how it works .if you poke d1 with kitana and cage blocks it putting her at minus 15 and she blocks straight away. your cage WILL full combo f33 np . this isnt a question of theory or maybe it's a deffinate . go on lan and practice it dude . youve been argueing with me since the beginning of this thread and been wrong the whole time. i love this

Jesus. Yeah if a move a is -15 on block, any move that is 15frames or below will punish it. Do you think we're all such big idiots that we don't get it? The point is, you don't do it on reaction. It's not like blocking Reptile's dash and punishing.

 

[Dizzy]

dizzy your not even taking into consideration of active frames ....... do they not exist to you ? , and explain what 16bit was saying about not being able to react to d3 on hit or block lol

Read somberness' explanation of frame data. The startup for his frame data is execution, meaning when it makes contact on the first possible frame. Bringing up active frames as a talking point is invalid as the situation listed is a point blank scenario where moves will make contact immediately. The frame data will be exactly what is listed by him.

Not sure what you mean about the second part, or why im responding tbh lol

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

The last bit was explaining why 21 or b33 will beat someone attempting counterpoking. If you could "see" the d1 specifically then you could never trick the opponent. The point of that statement is the action you take (example: letting go of block and performing a f3 as cage) does not change regardless of what move is performed by the opponent, as long as the animation is somewhat similar.

Well I could bring up sf, where I see them punish minus 3 moves with 3 frame normals (a dp is common to so this as well). If u do a d1 and it is blocked it can be punished always unless the opponent does d1 special (which only works in some situations) or if the punish is missed. D1s are six frames and can be reacted to on block since they have block stun and are negative on block. I am going to need a video to see what u guys are saying.

 

[PND_Ketchup]

Just tuned back into this thread. I don't even care if it's been cleared up.

@xarakamaka

Number of Perfect Legend's I've beat at EVO = 1

Number of anybody at all besides a rusty me you beat in tournament = 0

Your attack on me was completely uncalled for. You have a gigantic head for somebody that hasn't proven it where it counts, and I was trying to get you to see common sense. Seeing as you like to be so bent on "specifics", I hadn't played MK for months before that tiny tournament. And cared so little about it I broke my 3 years of character loyalty and just went Noob Saibot. Mustard's pad was also broken in that tournament, as I dropped it on the floor. He had to use a regular 360 pad in the Grand Finals. You shouldn't have brought a faulty pad with you.

If you're going to be pointlessly hostile, don't have gaping holes in your argument. You're beating the only people left that play online, and seem to have this massive ego. Utterly disappointed in your attitude about this. I was hoping to see you come out in full force with MK:X. You're a good player, but don't bring that attitude with you, for your own sake. The guys you're offending have proven time and time again that they can play, and you're not going to change their minds.