My return to tournaments and Defend the North thoughts

[STB Shujinkydink]

How much can be forgiven for first time bloopers?

IMO the tourney scene as a whole needs a new genesis. The current setups have pushed it pretty much as far as it can go.

This is a great question.

I honestly think that noob mistakes happen. They really do, but what would impress me more is a TO being prompt and attentive to fixing the issue, and showing that he does care about the tournament and the players. If it could have been prevented easily then thats lack of knowledge and hopefully they can get a fix or at least make it up to the players, the important part is they try and are up front and honest about it. However its a two way street as well. I was at one event and they were streaming tekken and one of the TOs said it would be hype to get one of the local tekken players play jwong on stream and wong freaked out saying no one wants to see a SF player playing tekken on stream I got other games to play man why would you put me on stream?

Its important that we as players understand what the TOs have to do for us and be patient with them if we see theyre trying their best to make a great tournament experience. Flip of the coin though, say something if it seems out of place

 

[RM Jonnitti]

Stream station lag has nothing to do with the monitor settings or the converter.

Also what it will take is for people to start carrying themselves as players to a higher standard and stop going to every tournament that wants to call itself a major.

Mr. Aquaman to my knowledge was the only player not from ny, nj or pa. i can see why a lot of people would consider this a major because it had 200+ for both marvel and sf4.

anyways on another note i had a lot of fun at this event despite the who situation with arturo's stream being in the shittiest spot in the venue and not projected but i feel like a lot of that had to do with the fact that they decided to have one room for 1 marvel 3 setup and another marvel 2 setup. if they put injustice and arturo in there then things would have been a lot better I feel. also i felt that the venue was way too small but anything bigger than that would be way too expensive in nyc most likely.

as far as the stream setup i didnt have any problems with it really. i got most of my combos and my execution is pretty shitty. for the small things i dropped i would blame myself over the setup. maybe thats because jaxel's stream setup lags and i play on that all the time.

 

[Big Pampering]

atleast noone/bill stole your bracelet this time tho

so troll

 

[7L]

Big shout out to @R.E.O. for coming to DTN. Yes, I wasn't happy at all with the tournament or preparation of this. The power outage was embarrasing. I've never seen a hotel staff run around like a headless chicken like they did. I can safely say that they were not prepared.

I didn't expect greatness from this tournament but it could have been so much better. Nevertheless, they used the left side of the venue for around 120 seats to watch the KOF/anime stream. These seats were barely half used at all times and could have easily been used for more space for set ups.


The stream monitor was a little laggy, I only noticed it when I attempted to j3 over dragongod to finish his pixel health and it didn't come out and he turned that chip he had left into a body of 45% to me lol.


A big shout out to @Sabin. He got as many matches as he was able to streamed for us and was a very hype commentator! Might I add, he was doing all of this (running the brackets, stream and commentating) while being in top 16 of AE. He said nothing bad about injustice's low numbers but only that it was one of the hypest tournaments that he witnessed. Big props to Sabin.

Also, this tournament was NOT advertised enough. I saw it advertised once at NEC on the main stage (when i happened to turn away from the Injustice corner) and not until Revolver told me about it 2 weeks prior to the event. They could have done a lot more to preparing and setting up but it's in the past.


ONE MORE THING! There were 3 online registers for injustice and we were thrown into the bracket via Last name, First name. So help me God. Is it that hard to read the entry slip that read: First name, lastname, NICKNAME.

They were calling names and 2 of us didn't respond to mispronounced names. That was the beginning of a rough tournament XD.


GGs to everyone, shout outs to the now THIRD best aquaman, Tom Brady, for trolling me all weekend.

 

[Perfect Legend]

You know had I made a thread like this I would be told I was making excuses for losing. However Reo makes it and he gets hella praise.

Yesssssssssssssss politics yessssssssssssssssss

 

[Matix218]

You know had I made a thread like this I would be told I was making excuses for losing. However Reo makes it and he gets hella praise.

Yesssssssssssssss politics yessssssssssssssssss

Thats because you are a villain in this community. ..duh!

 

[Perfect Legend]

Thats because you are a villain in this community. ..duh!

The*

 

[RiBBz22]

What to say?

Major League Gaming has always been the golden standard for fighting game tournaments. So when fools ask "Why is MLG so important?", I can tell that they do not travel.

- large venue
- numerous set ups
- several clean bathrooms
- free drinks
- nearby food courts

How every tournament should be.

haha, yeah dude. MLG Columbus was my first ever tournament and boy was a spoiled after that...

 

[Eldriken]

So glad you're back man, but that experience sounded like fucking shit. Hopefully it will be better next time

Buckethead avatar = win.

 

[gpmoney]

Whens Marvel?

 

[CrimsonShadow]

You know had I made a thread like this I would be told I was making excuses for losing. However Reo makes it and he gets hella praise.

Yesssssssssssssss politics yessssssssssssssssss

That's because REO didn't actually talk about specific matches or matchups and doesn't post with a different reason after every tournament.

Let's be serious here

 

[REO]

You know had I made a thread like this I would be told I was making excuses for losing. However Reo makes it and he gets hella praise.

Yesssssssssssssss politics yessssssssssssssssss

My thread has nothing to do with losing. As a matter of fact, it has nothing to do with gameplay. There is no tier list talk, or match up talk, or game mechanic discussion. This thread was strictly made about the tournament and everything to do with it (venue, tvs, presentation, set up etc. etc.)



I'm on break right now so I'll respond later
to some of these posts when I get home.

 

[JDM]

I'm glad people are speaking about this bullshit. I'm sick of going to tournaments and having them ran terribly. I'm always forced to play while tired as hell cause of the disorganization, and there's rarely enough setups for casuals. It's a main reason why I don't feel like going out to majors anymore, I like hanging out with the people I've met in the FGC but the tournament is always ran so shittily. I used to make the tournament my number one priority, but at NEC I just said fuck it let me drink and have fun. It seems like the majority of people do this too. Maybe they are just sick of it and don't care cause they aren't good enough?

Good read.

 

[RNLDRGN]

OK, so this isn't going to be a thread about topics to do with anything in-game or any gameplay in general. This is just going to be a thread about me expressing my opinion of the current tournament scene, mainly Defend the North.

So I haven't been to a tournament since Summer Jam. This tournament was my re-entrance to the tournament scene in quite a while. (although it did help the tournament was 40 minutes from my house LOL) It felt almost like I was an online warrior making my first appearance. This tournament left a bad taste in my mouth, and let me explain why.


Warning: LONG READ AHEAD so here is the TL: DR version ,,|,,



The price of the tournament entry was a whopping $40 bucks for just the venue fee. Then add in Injustice which was $10 bucks and it came to a total of $50 dollars. $50 dollars? You would think this was Six Flags or some shit. But nope, it's a below average hotel with a ball room that stunk horrid and not much space to move from station to station. Basically it's $50 bucks to stand around and breath nauseous smells while your valuable SATURDAY time is ticking away. May I add that SATURDAY is far and beyond a day where you want time to be wasted doing absolutely nothing of great pleasure or satisfaction.

I get there and enter the ball room early for the sole intention of getting a ton of matches in. What do I see when I enter the ball room? Just four Injustice set ups. You would think we were at someone's house hosting a weekly casual. To make things more of a nuisance, two of the four systems didn't even have DLC and weren't patched. So I couldn't even practice on the two available stations because the character I play is a DLC. Great.

But wait, it gets better. The Injustice stations were put right in front of the entrance to the ball room. So when you're playing your matches or trying to spectate, there are people constantly walking or running past you while bumping into you or trampling over your chair. Might I add I was about TEN inches away from the table corner and even moved the monitor more towards the center of the table to prevent people slamming into my arm while I'm trying to play. Didn't help at all. It just gave these people more cushion for pushin'. I actually have a bruise on my left arm from some idiot who decided to leave the ball room at the speed of someone trying to finish for an olympic medal while carrying his bag that had something in it that mimicked the density of a brick. Yeah, it slammed me right in my arm and my entire arm went numb for three seconds. It was to the point where I was so close to getting out of my seat and chasing the dude down just to slam my duffel bag over his head.

The best part was the stream station. God, was it laggy on that thing. It felt just like playing online. I could barely hit my combos on that station and this was even during that huge button check I did before my opponent arrived. The button check consisted of 15 minutes of me not being able to do a combo that isn't even that hard. I warn the Zatanna player before we play. He sits down to try it and out and is baffled at how delayed the station is. The highlight of the day was when I constantly asked if I could please play my matches off stream on another station that wasn't being used. I was denied every time and told that I must play on stream. Guess it's more about the viewers rather than the players tournament experience, huh? Good to know.

I wake up next day (Sunday) early to go down to the venue and get some more casuals. Now there is just two of the four stations that were there yesterday. Whatever. There's not many people there but a few guys so it's not a huge deal. I try and get games with someone. We sit down and realize both set ups are randomly missing the HDMI cord. LOL. So after 20 minutes of waiting around for a TO who had anything to do with the current Injustice station situation, we say fuck it and borrow one of the nearby stations HDMI cords and proceed to play. The stations next to us were empty and not in use.

To close things, overall this weekend I spent around $200 factoring in food, hotel, parking, venue, game, etc. $200 bucks in just two days for something 40 minutes away from my house... I honestly don't know how I feel about that.Yeah, I understand it was their first tournament and everyone starts some where. So here is your time to start improving and listening to players.

And yes, I understand sometimes shit happens and it's out of control for the TO. But when shit happens don't expect us to just be like:

"Oh, the power randomly went out on all these stations and we all need to clear the room and replay the tournament matches that were in progress? No problem!" (TRUE STORY - It happened at this event)

Expect bitching and complaints. Lots of them. Because that is what you're most likely going to get when "shit happens".





I will be making a review for every tournament I go to from now on. You're damn right I will express my opinion on the satisfactory I receive as a customer to these events. If anything I said in this post really offended any of you, then get over it and realize life is too short for things to suck. Try to make things better next time or else don't volunteer to be staff or run these events if you can't take CRITICISM.


Really crossing my fingers and hoping Apex is a lot better next weekend.

Wow. Yo dude, why don't you just not come to tournaments anymore if it's just going to ruin your weekend? I get pointing out some problems and providing constructive criticism, but this is just plain whining bro. I was mad at a few of the things that happened this weekend too, but making a list of suggestions and tackling it constructively sounds much better than rampant complaining. I know a lot of the guys who worked hard to make this run smoothly and they were hella stressed out when stuff wasn't running correctly, too.

That said, yeah the stream setup was a little laggy. And the "no sound" was mega distracting. I guess I agree with a lot of what you said--just approach it better next time yo. Less whiney plz.

 

[RapZiLLa54]

@R.E.O. great post man. This is pretty much how I've felt about any of the tournaments I've gone to. Its the friends we make that make the tournament and not the overall experience. Its a big reason why @SwiftTomHanks and I teamed up and have been running our own monthlies with the help of @Shock and now Blu Planet Comics.

While I understand why the venue was $40 (I've looked into it, its pretty much a must unless you want to just lose money) but I will never understand how there seems to be a lax on prep. I remember my first tournament I was told to show up at 10 am and didn't end up playing my first match until 6 pm as the tournament ran 3 hours behind schedule. I just can't comprehend it and the most any of our tournaments have ran behind has been 15 minutes and even when that happened once it pissed me off because I felt like I failed.

Players should be the irresponsible ones, not the TOs but yet aside from a few times where TOs flipped out on "collusion" they rarely enforce any of the rules they set, like registration, time start, etc. Brackets seemed to be prepared the day of instead of an on going process. I separated the brackets for NEC for @Mikemetroid by state to make it very easy to plug and play the brackets with the pre-reg and door reg on excel, took me about 10 minutes.

Also doesn't help that any NRS game is a bastard child at these events and thrown into the corner.

I hope you'll be at our event next week, I want you to write a review and be as honest as possible.

 

[Sabin]

I actually felt really comfortable on the stream setup, i actually dropped combos based on too early of an input

That said, yeah the stream setup was a little laggy.

Like I said, this is a issue. Some players claim it lags. Others don't. It's also a NRS game so controls are a bit sluggish. In short, at least 4 or 5 different people including myself had diff opinions about the stream lag. And in this case, it's not so simple as the streamer not being a player/active tournament goer, like I said I got top 8 on my own stream setup in AE and I couldn't sense any issues.

This is why I want to get a lag tester for the stream setups so that there won't be any discussion or debate about this. I don't like being accused of laggy setups just like anyone else! Also, it's pretty obvious that I don't want to play on laggy setups. But how do I know if it lagfree or if it's just a salty top player complaining? What if I'm too used to my own setup from playing on stream for so long? I don't, so I have to purchase this.

People also need to mention if theyre using cronus converters or not. I know Reo uses a converter since he's not a xbox player. Just not sure if it's Cronus. Those cronus converters have lagged ports and grinded matches to a halt, several times at ECT. They also were making OTHER players drop their inputs as well (this all happened on my stream, recorded mind you.) If you guys are using Cronus then people need to find a alternative. They'll definitely be banned soon after this weekend.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/8586966/#Comment_8586966
small tech talk thread about the consensus of cronus.

Re: smaller games at majors, absolutely agree things could have been done better re: injustice/blazblue/guilty gear at this tourney, etc.

 

[RM Truth]

The way the FGC is we are far from being MLG status.

Most other FGCs don't even respect MLG.

 

[Matix218]

Most other FGCs don't even respect MLG.

Only because they have never been included in MLG.

I know Capcom itself wants nothing to do with MLG but I guarantee you that if MLG had street fighter/marvel/etc all of those Capcom players would be all over it. More prize money, better venue, more professional presentation... trust me, those players would respect MLG they just never will get the chance.

 

[RNLDRGN]

Like I said, this is a issue. Some players claim it lags. Others don't. It's also a NRS game so controls are a bit sluggish. In short, at least 4 or 5 different people including myself had diff opinions about the stream lag. And in this case, it's not so simple as the streamer not being a player/active tournament goer, like I said I got top 8 on my own stream setup in AE and I couldn't sense any issues.

This is why I want to get a lag tester for the stream setups so that there won't be any discussion or debate about this. I don't like being accused of laggy setups just like anyone else! Also, it's pretty obvious that I don't want to play on laggy setups. But how do I know if it lagfree or if it's just a salty top player complaining? What if I'm too used to my own setup from playing on stream for so long? I don't, so I have to purchase this.

People also need to mention if theyre using cronus converters or not. I know Reo uses a converter since he's not a xbox player. Just not sure if it's Cronus. Those cronus converters have lagged ports and grinded matches to a halt, several times at ECT. They also were making OTHER players drop their inputs as well (this all happened on my stream, recorded mind you.) If you guys are using Cronus then people need to find a alternative. They'll definitely be banned soon after this weekend.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/8586966/#Comment_8586966
small tech talk thread about the consensus of cronus.

Re: smaller games at majors, absolutely agree things could have been done better re: injustice/blazblue/guilty gear at this tourney, etc.

Like I said, this is a issue. Some players claim it lags. Others don't. It's also a NRS game so controls are a bit sluggish. In short, at least 4 or 5 different people including myself had diff opinions about the stream lag. And in this case, it's not so simple as the streamer not being a player/active tournament goer, like I said I got top 8 on my own stream setup in AE and I couldn't sense any issues.

This is why I want to get a lag tester for the stream setups so that there won't be any discussion or debate about this. I don't like being accused of laggy setups just like anyone else! Also, it's pretty obvious that I don't want to play on laggy setups. But how do I know if it lagfree or if it's just a salty top player complaining? What if I'm too used to my own setup from playing on stream for so long? I don't, so I have to purchase this.

People also need to mention if theyre using cronus converters or not. I know Reo uses a converter since he's not a xbox player. Just not sure if it's Cronus. Those cronus converters have lagged ports and grinded matches to a halt, several times at ECT. They also were making OTHER players drop their inputs as well (this all happened on my stream, recorded mind you.) If you guys are using Cronus then people need to find a alternative. They'll definitely be banned soon after this weekend.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/comment/8586966/#Comment_8586966
small tech talk thread about the consensus of cronus.

Re: smaller games at majors, absolutely agree things could have been done better re: injustice/blazblue/guilty gear at this tourney, etc.

Appreciated your setup for sure. Myself and a few others felt there was a little lag, but nothing match-breaking at all.

 

[Killphil]

PL isn't saying anything about the game or losing. He's saying if he had made a thread complaining about the accommodations or lack thereof at a tournament that people would be like "PL, you so funny hehe" "Stop complaining because you lost fgt" "Oh another thread where PL whines about anything besides the fact that he played like booty buttcheeks". Do I know this to be true? Not really. Just clarifying what he's getting at.

 

[DarthArma]

@R.E.O. didn't mention (not sure if he remembers me telling him) that I had to hunt down the T.O. after getting back to the venue sunday morning 2 hours early to get us monitors for our injustice table. There were 3 xboxes left there, and about 20-30 minutes later the TO comes back with 2 monitors and no speakers, drops them like they're hot, and walks away. Didn't even give me a chance to say thank you. I boot up the 360 and realize there are no HDMI cables to come with them. Had I not gotten there early to ask for a few set ups to warm up we wouldnt have had time to see through all this to get the very little practice we got.

I feel like this is what happens when Kombat Network isnt here to run brackets and supply ALL the NRS games their equipment. @Shock does too much for this scene, way more than himself or anyone else gives him credit for. This is what will continue to happen if no one speaks up.

Thank you REO for making the post.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

I found the read interesting and you know what, things like a game having only "4 setups" is unacceptable. This is why the MLG's I went too were so amazing while I've went to some crappy FGC/ Grassroots tournament (NCR, Revelations, UFGT). Can all tournaments improve? of course, but we'll have to see what TOs do overall to improve the tournaments they run. With that being said, I need to go to a tournament like CEO or Final Round, those tournaments I know for sure are good.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

The*

Let me introduce you to M2Dave and Playing To Win

 

[REO]

Hi REO, thank you for posting your thoughts on Defend the North. It is always good when players voice their opinions. As the consumers of these events it is important that your voice is heard! Although I empathize with what a TO has to go through to even try to run an event of this size and it seems the main TO of DTN has his eye on improvement, at the end of the day it matters what was delivered and whether the customer feels he got his money worth.

As a TO with my own tournament coming up, Kumite in Tennessee, I find this kind of feedback invaluable. I would absolutely love if you came to KiT and critiqued the performance of me and my crew like a food critic coming to a new restaurant. I hope you have at least heard of it by now - if not please pay attention to our stream and what people say about it. In fact I value feedback so much I am going to hand out surveys on top 8 day and offer a raffle prize to those who complete it. I want to be the best of both worlds - close enough to the community to know what it wants in the first place and professional enough to deliver the experience like MLG.

I believe if you bother to have a game at your tournament you should take care of it, and in the case of Injustice we are giving it top billing. Cash payouts equal to any other game ($1000 pot), top 8 3/5 on Sunday afternoon, plenty of setups, and a published schedule we will follow to the tee.

I really didn't want to give this away until we did our next KiT Cast, but since I am here and want to convince you to spend that hard earned money to come I might as well showcase it. This is a hand crafted custom doomsday trophy we will award to first place on top of the $700. It is not 100% ready as we dont have the plaque printed yet, but this is actually worth more than our first place cash prize:

First, I just want to say that that trophy is freaking AMAZING. I wish more TO's would go out of their way in making unique trophies that fit the theme of the game like that. Whoever wins first place there know that I will be jealous. LOL

What I highlighted in red shows true passion and dedication for the players who support events. It shows that you actually CARE and want players to come back to your events. It really makes me wish I could come to KiT but this month for me is tournament city with this upcoming weekend being Apex, and then the following weekend being When Worlds Collide. This tournament will be high on my list for attending next year, though!

Yep, not sure what to say here, as my splitter is this exact one right here - (using it with Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle) -
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=101&cp_id=10113&cs_id=1011307&p_id=7972&seq=1&format=2

Reo even asked me before if the monitor was on 1080p, to which I replied, no I cannot even capture at 1080p with that capture card since I do 60fps. It wont even display on any other resolution other than 720. I saw him dropping combos so I was wondering what the deal was?


By the way, this is also the same exact setup that spooky uses for his capture, so I'm not sure what to exactly say?

Guilty Gear players as well as Blazblue players (GGXX for those that don't know, is a game with a small input window and really demanding execution.) They didn't have a problem landing 1frame cancels on the splitter at all. I even got top 8 in AE playing on that exact splitter myself. Also had a team tournament 5v5 for Street Fighter 4 (again, a game with 1 frame links) with no complaints about it.

I was talking about this on stream before, but there are lag testers for monitors. May have to look into investing into these.


This is not my monitor, just an example of a device that tests for displaylag on monitors:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=43846&sid=55b8a27134b4b1bd4ba35204e3e8dbe3

But yeah, not trying to blow up anyone, these kind of complaints about top players + stream lag is quite common these days

The main reason why I know it was definitely something to do with the stream and not my imagination was because I came straight off of casuals into my tournament match. I was already warmed up and had near maximum sync with my mind and the game. You can even ask numerous players who came straight off of casuals into their tournament match on stream like @rev0lver and they will tell you something was definitely up.

I'm also aware of the recent uproar with cronus converters. I've personally never experienced my cronus acting funky or making me drop inputs and I had mine since right before Injustice launched. Maybe it's because I'm using one of the older OG models and the new ones are a little buggy? I don't know. I just know I've used mine in numerous tournaments and play with it all the time and I have yet to have any issues. I'm talking about like 10 months of experience here with this device. But you never know so I'll just leave it at that.

@R.E.O. do you only sleep 4 hours...that's crazy is it. 6 hour there and back or 6 hour to get that's, if it's 6 hours to get there I would quit, fuck that.

Nah. It's just three hours to get there, and three hours to get home. It involves driving, taking train, walking, and subway, and then more walking. Rinse and repeat every day.

Wow. Yo dude, why don't you just not come to tournaments anymore if it's just going to ruin your weekend? I get pointing out some problems and providing constructive criticism, but this is just plain whining bro. I was mad at a few of the things that happened this weekend too, but making a list of suggestions and tackling it constructively sounds much better than rampant complaining. I know a lot of the guys who worked hard to make this run smoothly and they were hella stressed out when stuff wasn't running correctly, too.

That said, yeah the stream setup was a little laggy. And the "no sound" was mega distracting. I guess I agree with a lot of what you said--just approach it better next time yo. Less whiney plz.

That's one of the absolute worst ways to grow your scene. You don't just tell players to stop coming when they aren't satisfied. You're supposed to listen to why they aren't satisfied and work on making it better for next time. That's like someone just opening a new bagel shop and advertising their place like they make some of the best seasoned and gourmet bagels around (think of this like the "we're a major card" used for DFT). You go on and taste their bagels and they aren't good. If you as the business owner were to tell customers to just "don't come here and eat then bro", your place would run out of business. And yes, I will be outside telling nearby people that this place's bagels suck while whining as I finish my last bite of this stale, sloppy, and brittle bagel.

PL isn't saying anything about the game or losing. He's saying if he had made a thread complaining about the accommodations or lack thereof at a tournament that people would be like "PL, you so funny hehe" "Stop complaining because you lost fgt" "Oh another thread where PL whines about anything besides the fact that he played like booty buttcheeks". Do I know this to be true? Not really. Just clarifying what he's getting at.

Ah, I get it now. But that's because PL IS a complainer and usually whines about a certain character in almost every tournament. Anyone who knows him well knows this is usually true. How many times have we heard Kabal is not that good when he loses with him in MK9? Or countless other silly things he has said that I would rather not break into my memory banks for. Of course they are going to think he's trying to make excuses or tearing about some new broken character or tactic because THAT'S USUALLY WHAT HE DOES. LOL. I really don't want to get further into this because it's completely off topic and I just don't want to waste energy on it.

But I will say this, @Perfect Legend, if this "double standard" you created for yourself bothers you that much then just stop complaining about characters and in-game shit for a couple of years and you will gradually lose your title as a "sore loser".

Or you can just stop caring what others think. Either works.

 

[Big Pampering]

a lot of these tournament issues don't even require any extra money or time whatsoever, it's just common sense for people to do it the right way.