SimSim
Norwegian Lab-work Champion
I decided to make this in to a thread to gather the info on the subject.
How to execute the 4, 3 xx d4:
Question:
General considerations about resets, and when to go for them:
Colonel-Gilgamesh
More Information about this reset mechanic can be found in this video:When whiffing a normal, air normal, whiffing throw, use trait (for other characters than zod) or whiff certain special moves (Zod charge for zod), it will reset the opponent while he is in the trait grab. Meaning he can block while you attack him in the trait grab animation, but it also gives you the possibility to reset him. Look at the video and see how the combo stops and starts as a new combo after the whiffed j2
The thing is, a LOT of the cross ups you do with my set ups will only cross if the opponent does not block. What I mean is: The opponent can hold back and you will not cross up (The hurtbox of sinestro changes when holding back even when he is in the trait grab animation). What you need to do is this:
After the PS, do a slightly delayed 4 so that you have time to hit with f2. Then do 3 fast after hitting f2 (so that you hit with 3 when the opponent is high in the air close to your body) and cancel in to d4. If you hit with 3 further out on the limb, the opponent will fly further before getting grabbed and you will have problems crossing up the opponent (Even if it crosses when they don't block).
How to execute the 4, 3 xx d4:
I land 4, 3 xx d4 like 95% of the time, so clearly it is very possible to get consistently. I think the reason why you are not getting it is because of your lack of familiarity with the 4, f2 xx d4 set up (Which I seem to use more than you in my gamepplay). The 4, 3 xx d4 is easier though: You do f2, then 4 right away, then waith 0.1 sec for the 4 to knock them close to your body (But it doesn't really feel like a wait to me, I do it really fast, just not plinking fas), then cancel that 3 by pressing d4 as fast as possible after pressing the 3)
Question:
Answer:I think I'm missing something here. When we were talking about whiffs, I was assuming that ji2 was the whiff, in that instead of using the landed ji2 to combo, you just landed it and used it's large hitstun to setup a new string?
In that reset you won't be able to use an ambiguous j2 as a part of the mix up, which increases the mix up potential exponentially
General considerations about resets, and when to go for them:
AK Pig Of The HutWhat justifies a reset?
A reset is basically dropping a combo on purpose to potentially gain more unscaled damage. Great, so why do you not always go for reset then? More damage right? Well, for a reset to be "worth it", you should, first of all, have a strong mix up incoming, so that the probability of your opponent blocking that reset is as low as possible. If your mix up is weak, the opponent will block your reset attempt and you just threw away guaranteed damage on a reset, weak mix up and a dream.
The other factor is the "potential damage vs the guaranteed damage". If you do your reset after the first 2 hits of a combo, you are probably sacrificing guaranteed damage that would equate at least 60%-70% of the potential damage. Is this worth it? Should you be giving up 100 guaranteed damage by stopping after 20 damage, and potentially get 100-110 more damage (120-130 damage together)?
The rules that will tell you if your reset is worth going for is. If your mix up is strong AND you are gaining more than 50% more damage if succeeding with the mix up, you should probably do it (This is not an established rule, but it's something I think personally). These 2 factors will affect each other of course, so if the mix up is insanely strong, that might justify going for the reset even if you only gain 30% more damage by landing it. If the potential damage you can get is 100% more than the guaranteed damage, but your mix up is kind of weak, maybe it is still worth going for once in a while.
How does this relate to Zod:
Usually when landing a trait grab in the beginning of a combo, you have a 40-45% combo coming. If you decide to reset the opponent after dealing 10-15% and therefor sacrificing 25%-30% damage for a potential "new" combo that does 45%, you are basically placing your guaranteed 40-45% combo in a wager and hoping to win 50-60%. If you lose this bet, you will be left with 10-15% damage.
When I looked in to trait combo resets yesterday, I was doing 30-39% damage in to resets that had both ambiguous j2 and mix ups in the reset. Here you sacrifice 10-15% guaranteed damage for potential 70-80% damage from a stronger mix up. In my head this might be a risk that I would be willing to take.
At the end I would like to add a point that speaks towards the use of Zod's mix up: Zod's trait grab will throw the opponent to the ground at the end of the animation, usually leaving no room for a reset, while stuff like Frost's freeze and Superman's freeze will reset the opponent standing if they don't do anything. Because of this people might not expect a reset out of the trait grab at all, while they in frozen states are "on the look" for resets. This is kind of a gimmick though, as at a high level players will learn to recognise that the zod player has whiffed something in order for a reset.
Colonel-Gilgamesh