Zatanna Vortex Options

[Pan1cMode]

This thread is to discuss all of Zatanna's vortex options.


MIDSCREEN

(overhead) b23, ji2, 223~bf3 (MB), ji2 (29%)

(low) b1u3, ji3, 112~bf3 (MB), ji2 (30%)

(overhead to low) b21~bf1 (MB), b3, dash, ji2, 223~bf3 (MB), ji2 (38%)

(overhead) j, db3 (MB), 223~bf3 (MB), ji2 (23%)

It should be noted that midscreen the only ender that will work is j2. 2 and j2, 2 and j2, etativel cancel 2 and j2, etativel cancel 2, 2 all cause the jump in attack of the b1u3 string to whiff.




CORNER


F21 RESET

Meterless
(overhead) b23, ji2, etativel cancel 3, d2, f21
(low) b1u3, ji3, etativel cancel 3 , d2, f21

Meter

(Overhead) b23, nj2, etativel cancel 3, 112~bf3 (MB), j2, etativel cancel 2, b1u3, f21
(Low) b1u3, nj3, etativel cancel 3, 11u2~bf3 (MB), j2, etativel cancel 2, b1u3, f21



Note: the f21 reaet leaves you at +18 (or more?) and your slowest starter (b2) comes out at 23 frames. Therefore, it cannot be poked out of, but it can be parried and supered through. Also moves which have armour starting on frame 1 might beat it.



TEPPUP RETSAM RESET

(overhead) b23, ji2, etativel cancel 3, 112~bf3 (MB), j2, etativel cancel 2, 2
(low) b1u3, ji3, etativel cancel 2, 112~bf3 (MB), j2, etativel cancel 2, 2



It should also be noted that after a MB bf3, you can teleport twice to build meter.

 

[EmInEnTShAdOw]

This thread is to discuss all of Zatanna's vortex options.

Note: the meter less option leaves you at +18 and your slowest starter (b2) comes out at 23 frames. Therefore, it cannot be poked out of, but it can be parried and supered through. Also moves which have armour starting on frame 1 might beat it.

EDIT: Aparantly this can be jumped out of . It's still nice right now as people don't know what to do against it but in reality, it's pretty useless

Chongo, Pan1cMode, AspyxiaDyslexia-

There's recently been discussion about B23 not working as a vortex off of corner F21. This is incorrect. It WORKS FINE GUYS, haha.

I just tested against a human playing as nightwing. I asked him to mash out, he was unable. I asked him to hold up to attempt a neutral jump out and he got hit with B23. I asked him to hold forward jump out as that is slightly quicker than neutral jump and he was unable to yet again. He'd be airborne just slightly and would take the hit and get reset. And no, you are unable to jump mash out either. So......what are guys talking about??? lol

EDIT: Also tested with F21, B1U3

EDIT2: No wait, I get it........ You can jump out of B23 Mwahahahaha.......

 

[Pan1cMode]

Chongo, Pan1cMode, AspyxiaDyslexia-

There's recently been discussion about B23 not working as a vortex off of corner F21. This is incorrect. It WORKS FINE GUYS, haha.

I just tested against a human playing as nightwing. I asked him to mash out, he was unable. I asked him to hold up to attempt a neutral jump out and he got hit with B23. I asked him to hold forward jump out as that is slightly quicker than neutral jump and he was unable to yet again. He'd be airborne just slightly and would take the hit and get reset. And no, you are unable to jump mash out either. So......what are guys talking about??? lol

EDIT: Also tested with F21, B1U3

EDIT2: No wait, I get it........ You can jump out of B23 Mwahahahaha.......

Yeah, b1u3 has 20 frames of startup while b23 has 23 frames. It's still kinda a vortex because if they mash jump they'll get hit by the low but if they block low they'll get hit by the overhead.

And you could also do instant air divekick to catch both mashing jump and low block (however it will require meter to combo).

In that case, I would still consider it a vortex....

So guys alls you gotta do is mash jump to get out

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

No, any move with higher start up frames than the advantage will hit! This can be neutral jumped or backdashed! :/
If you have a +16 frame advantage and your next his is 23 frames of start up it can be backdashed or neutral jumped

 

[EmInEnTShAdOw]

No, any move with higher start up frames than the advantage will hit! This can be neutral jumped or backdashed! :/
If you have a +16 frame advantage and your next his is 23 frames of start up it can be backdashed or neutral jumped

Well, in this case, F21 must be +19 or something because the opponent is unable to neutral or forward jump out of the corner when doing B23 or B1U3. We have a 19F advantage to act before the opponent can act, so in order to get out of reach of B21 or B23, the opponent would need several more frames to get higher in jump animation.

 

[EmInEnTShAdOw]

Btw, I've taken some time to optimize vortex combos. Through my research, I believe the most reliable, best damaging vortex combos would be as follows:

B1U3>NJ3>levicancel>D2>F21=25%
B23>NJ2>levicancel>D3>F21=27%

Pop a meter and have fun with 40% and 41% as you revortex with F21. So here are the optimized MB options

B1U3>NJ3>levicancel>D2>112>MBtrance>J2>levicancel>D2>B1U3>F21=40%
B23>NJ2>levicancel>D3>112>MBtrance>J2>levicancel>D2>B1U3>F21=41%

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Well, in this case, F21 must be +19 or something because the opponent is unable to neutral or forward jump out of the corner when doing B23 or B1U3. We have a 19F advantage to act before the opponent can act, so in order to get out of reach of B21 or B23, the opponent would need several more frames to get higher in jump animation.

No, welli tried it! Just go to the lab & put the AI in jump..

 

[Pan1cMode]

Btw, I've taken some time to optimize vortex combos. Through my research, I believe the most reliable, best damaging vortex combos would be as follows:

B1U3>NJ3>levicancel>D2>F21=25%
B23>NJ2>levicancel>D3>F21=27%

Pop a meter and have fun with 40% and 41% as you revortex with F21. So here are the optimized MB options

B1U3>NJ3>levicancel>D2>112>MBtrance>J2>levicancel>D2>B1U3>F21=40%
B23>NJ2>levicancel>D3>112>MBtrance>J2>levicancel>D2>B1U3>F21=41%

Updated OP

 

[Pan1cMode]

No, welli tried it! Just go to the lab & put the AI in jump..

It don't matter if they can jump out of the overhead if they can't jump out of the low. The mix up still exists if that's the case.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

It don't matter if they can jump out of the overhead if they can't jump out of the low. The mix up still exists if that's the case.

They can jump both

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

In any case the real vortex would be standing 2 which puts you at +23 on hit!

 

[Pan1cMode]

They can jump both

Setting the AInto jump, it hasn't been able to jump and jump forward it hasnt been able to jump out...

However, the b23 string does catch them in the air so the extra gravity scaling screws over larger combos.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Setting the AInto jump, it hasn't been able to jump and jump forward it hasnt been able to jump out...

However, the b23 string does catch them in the air so the extra gravity scaling screws over larger combos.

Is this midscreen?

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I discovered a real vortex guys.... Well.. I gotta test if this can't be backdashed... First of all the overhead (B2,1) can be added but the timing is so weird & inconsistent.... So the next option is Dive kick, the thing in here is that it will be unsafe unless we MB it...

Wel... After a MB Master of puppets just get close & use a standing 2, this will put you at +23 on hit... This can't be neutral jumped, B1 will connect perfectly & dive kick also... There's no way for our opponent to react... & it's midscreen

 

[Pan1cMode]

Is this midscreen?

No it's corner... It's always been corner for f21.

 

[Pan1cMode]

I discovered a real vortex guys.... Well.. I gotta test if this can't be backdashed... First of all the overhead (B2,1) can be added but the timing is so weird & inconsistent.... So the next option is Dive kick, the thing in here is that it will be unsafe unless we MB it...

Wel... After a MB Master of puppets just get close & use a standing 2, this will put you at +23 on hit... This can't be neutral jumped, B1 will connect perfectly & dive kick also... There's no way for our opponent to react... & it's midscreen

Mid screen you have to j2. 2 pushes them too far for the b1u3 follow up jump in to connect

 

[badb]

Btw, I've taken some time to optimize vortex combos. Through my research, I believe the most reliable, best damaging vortex combos would be as follows:

B1U3>NJ3>levicancel>D2>F21=25%
B23>NJ2>levicancel>D3>F21=27%

Pop a meter and have fun with 40% and 41% as you revortex with F21. So here are the optimized MB options

B1U3>NJ3>levicancel>D2>112>MBtrance>J2>levicancel>D2>B1U3>F21=40%
B23>NJ2>levicancel>D3>112>MBtrance>J2>levicancel>D2>B1U3>F21=41%

One issue with using that B23 string is the best players will be able to block it on reaction, is slow and seeable, her slow glowing hand doesn't help. The other issue is on block that string is less safe than regular legs and most of the cast can punish it pretty hard because she is at point blank.

May hit most people though.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Mid screen you have to j2. 2 pushes them too far for the b1u3 follow up jump in to connect

No, it doesn't

 

[Pan1cMode]

No, it doesn't

Really? I can't get it to connect at all no matter what timing I use.

In any case, j2 does more damage.

EDIT: it also provides more hit advantage. Computer can forward jump out of b23 string (it still hits but gravity scaling is much worse) after 2 but not after j2

 

[Pan1cMode]

One issue with using that B23 string is the best players will be able to block it on reaction, is slow and seeable, her slow glowing hand doesn't help. The other issue is on block that string is less safe than regular legs and most of the cast can punish it pretty hard because she is at point blank.

May hit most people though.

Yeah, the alternative is to instant air dive kick into full combo, but that requires two meter and does less damage.

 

[EmInEnTShAdOw]

Is this midscreen?

Ahh, there's the confusion amongst us. I'm referring to F21 corner

In any case the real vortex would be standing 2 which puts you at +23 on hit!

I swear that frame data is inaccurate for this as well. Standing 2 is not +23 because you can backdash out of a B23 done right after standing 2. J2 provides more hit stun allowing for the midscreen vortex

One issue with using that B23 string is the best players will be able to block it on reaction, is slow and seeable, her slow glowing hand doesn't help. The other issue is on block that string is less safe than regular legs and most of the cast can punish it pretty hard because she is at point blank.

May hit most people though.

I agree with you 100% on this. I was also thinking about the safety issues with using B23 when it gets blocked. As long as we have a meter, better to use either B1U3 or B21 vortex combo. I just made a B21 combo ending with F21, and it seems solid!!! Good damage, practical combo.

B21>MBtrance>J2>levicancel>D2>B1U3>NJ3>levicancel>D3>D2>F21=42%

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Yeah, the alternative is to instant air dive kick into full combo, but that requires two meter and does less damage.

Yes, that or master the timing of B2 would be ok

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Ahh, there's the confusion amongst us. I'm referring to F21 corner





I swear that frame data is inaccurate for this as well. Standing 2 is not +23 because you can backdash out of a B23 done right after standing 2. J2 provides more hit stun allowing for the vortex





I agree with you 100% on this. I was also thinking about the safety issues with using B23 when it gets blocked. As long as we have a meter, better to use either B13 or B21 vortex combo. I just made a B21 combo ending with F21, and it seems solid!!! Good damage, practical combo.

B21>MBtrance>J2>levicancel>D2>B1U3>NJ3>levicancel>D3>D2>F21=42%

Ohhh ok! In the corner this works... Some characters can poke but only a few imo... They can still neutral jump but B2 & B1 will catch them jumping tho

 

[EmInEnTShAdOw]

Pan1cMode

I found a way to increase damage slightly while still keeping the combo stable and practical.

nonmeter:
B1U3>NJ3>levicancel>D3>D2>F21=29% (that D2 really stabilizes them and makes this practical).

1 meter:
B1U3>NJ3>levicancel>D3>112>MBtrance>J2>levicancel>D2>B1U3>F21=42% (connecting 112 is easy off the D3 and you get extra damage.

EDIT:
Also nonmeter:
B23>NJ2>levicancel>D3>D2>F21=28% (That D2 just guarantees that F21, lovin it, lol. You will not drop that F21 at all with that D2)

 

[Pan1cMode]

Pan1cMode

I found a way to increase damage slightly while still keeping the combo stable and practical.

nonmeter:
B1U3>NJ3>levicancel>D3>D2>F21=29% (that D2 really stabilizes them and makes this practical).

1 meter:
B1U3>NJ3>levicancel>D3>112>MBtrance>J2>levicancel>D2>B1U3>F21=42% (connecting 112 is easy off the D3 and you get extra damage.

EDIT:
Also nonmeter:
B23>NJ2>levicancel>D3>D2>F21=28% (That D2 just guarantees that F21, lovin it, lol. You will not drop that F21 at all with that D2)

Updated again.

EDIT:

Added videos to OP.