Question - Summoner Why Does Quan Chi Need This?

[M2Dave]

No not paranoid. Salty. I was never paranoid of quan because of his horribad defence. It was insulting to see a long list of buffs for quan who was already the best Zoner and had some of the best offense. But I never had any illusions about his defense being anywhere near good. His defense is garbage. But that was how he was designed. It is very poor design, but it was how he was designed non the less. You cannot convince me that quan chi needed more help than balanced kenshi. Balanced is a terrible Zoner, with no up close options. He cannot control space like he is supposed to. He just can't. So tell me. Who needed the buff more. A character that is already debatably top 10 with amazing offence with little to no defence, or a character that has nothing going for him. Yes it sucked that quan had a block infinite. But his zoning and mix up game made up for that some what at least. Kenshi needed buffs. Quan could have been put on the side burner for other characters that needed it more. I respect you Dave. You are an insightful player and an excellent Zoner. But I don't believe quan should have gotten this treatment before other characters that actually needed it. Kenshis treatment was a slap in the face. I would not mind these quan buffs IF kenshi got the treatment he deserves but instead he got half added "buffs" that they threw at kenshi not really knowing how bad they were hoping to stave off the kenshi community. It was insulting.

In this absurdly offensive minded game, I welcome buffs for all zoning characters. I am not going to be bitter because one zoning character received buffs over another. Cybernetic Kano remains offensively challenged, yet I am not complaining.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

In this absurdly offensive minded game, I welcome buffs for all zoning characters. I am not going to be bitter because one zoning character received buffs over another. Cybernetic Kano remains offensively challenged, yet I am not complaining.

I will do anything if you change your user title to "Offensively Challenged"

 

[GAV]

I figured, just wanted him to admit it.

I don't know what you're trying to say but you get an instant like for Rick and Morty.

Just figured it was time to lighten things up a bit.

 

[MrProfDrPepper]

In this absurdly offensive minded game, I welcome buffs for all zoning characters. I am not going to be bitter because one zoning character received buffs over another. Cybernetic Kano remains offensively challenged, yet I am not complaining.

That is fair the main reason for my bitterness is due to the details of tge balanced buffs. Taking off 10 recovery frames in telefury wasn't enough. And it was insulting and has made me bitter towards those characters that got useful buffs. I just want balanced to be viable since it is one of the few characters I connect with in this game. As of right now I main a scrub killer.

 

[legion666]

Tanya absolutely does not have a block infinite on anyone any more.

I still need to test but I am pretty sure Quan can get out of the Ronin blockstrings by instant NJPing after b21 2+4 blade drop. Ill test later.

The Kotal thing as you describe it is not a block infinite, if Quan can poke out it isnt one, even if the poke doesnt get him anything.

I dont think anyone block infinites Quan Chi anymore, bad defense or not.

I was answering the question "If Quan didn't receive a 6 frame d1", Kotal would absolutely lock him down when he has meter, and with close to 3 bars he would chip him to death because he would built the 4 th bar in the process, especially with that newly buffed b1 @Qwark28 has made a thread about it a while ago.

I am not sure why would you wanna try to get out of a blockstring with Instant NJP if Quan now has a 6 frame d1. I know that his NJP is 5 frames from the airborne state, but Instant NJP still takes more than 1 frame to get airborne so it is definitely slower than 6 frames.

 

[GAV]

I don't even understand this argument. At the game's highest levels, you do everything you can to win - or you probably don't win.

Calling someone a "tier whore"? The mindset behind this argument is a losing one.

How is picking the character that gives you the best chance to win any different from playing the character you chose in the best possible way to win?

When you're trying to win a tournament against great players, the only way to do that is to not only be better - but to be your best.

Choosing a character that gives you less chance of victory just makes no sense.

If you're playing for fun, then pick whomever you want - but if you gotta win, be single-minded in your quest to achieve that goal.

18 Tanyas in one tourney and 22 Predators in another tells you everything you need to know. Almost everyone good enough to compete at the highest levels chooses their character by who helps them win. This is part of the equation that gets you there.

 

[legion666]

In the corner ronin block infinites everyone? He's that plus?

I was referring to this:

b212+4 blade drop is +4
f12+4 and f122+4 (2nd hit) quick kall is +10

It block infinites any character with an 8 frame or slower move:
Takeda
Kenshi
Kitana
Johnny Cage
Jason
Erron Black

And Quan would have been on that list if he didn't have a 6 frame d1
And also this:

I was looking at this too holy shit lol. I KNEW he had a block infinite. You can actually do this in the corner to from F122+4 toss sword f122+4 recall F122+4 toss sword loop.
IF you time it perfectly only cassie and kung lao can get out of the sword toss without meter. But they HAVE to use meter to get out of the rekall. Takeda is dumb LOL

 

[Zoidberg747]

I was answering the question "If Quan didn't receive a 6 frame d1", Kotal would absolutely lock him down when he has meter, and with close to 3 bars he would chip him to death because he would built the 4 th bar in the process, especially with that newly buffed b1 @Qwark28 has made a thread about it a while ago.

I am not sure why would you wanna try to get out of a blockstring with Instant NJP if Quan now has a 6 frame d1. I know that his NJP is 5 frames from the airborne state, but Instant NJP still takes more than 1 frame to get airborne so it is definitely slower than 6 frames.

NJP out prioritzes a lot of moves though so I am pretty sure it would out prioritize f1.

And even without the 6f1 d1 he still would have been able to get out of the kotal stuff using throw reversals.

 

[Zoidberg747]

I was referring to this:

And Quan would have been on that list if he didn't have a 6 frame d1
And also this:

You have to have no usable armor moves in order for it to actually be a block infinite.

Im not saying it isnt dumb btw, it is and I hope they fix it soon.

 

[legion666]

You have to have no usable armor moves in order for it to actually be a block infinite.

Im not saying it isnt dumb btw, it is and I hope they fix it soon.

Well Summoner and Sorcerer don't have a usable armor move)))))they just have a 6 frame d1 now

 

[legion666]

NJP out prioritzes a lot of moves though so I am pretty sure it would out prioritize f1.

And even without the 6f1 d1 he still would have been able to get out of the kotal stuff using throw reversals.

First of all priority matters when the hitboxes of the moves collide and both moves are already active, if there isn't a window for the start up of the Instant NJP priority doesn't matter. How many frames are there before the next f1 comes out in Ronin pressure????
Second thing,I don't get the throw reversal stuff a lot of people are mentioning. Throws have a 10 frame start up, when you do it as a reversal it ignores the 1 frame it usually takes to get out of block animation - but the start up of the throw is still 10 frames. So how can Quan get out of something with a 10 frame throw , if he can't with a 8 frame normal (it isn't reversal so it is technically a 9 frame then)????

 

[Zoidberg747]

First of all priority matters when the hitboxes of the moves collide and both moves are already active, if there isn't a window for the start up of the Instant NJP priority doesn't matter. How many frames are there before the next f1 comes out in Ronin pressure????
Second thing,I don't get the throw reversal stuff a lot of people are mentioning. Throws have a 10 frame start up, when you do it as a reversal it ignores the 1 frame it usually takes to get out of block animation - but the start up of the throw is still 10 frames. So how can Quan get out of something with a 10 frame throw , if he can't with a 8 frame normal (it isn't reversal so it is technically a 9 frame then)????

Again, I havent had time to test so you might be right. But back throw is 9f so the back throw reversal is 8f. The reason this is so good is throw beats out a bunch of normals.

 

[legion666]

Again, I havent had time to test so you might be right. But back throw is 9f so the back throw reversal is 8f. The reason this is so good is throw beats out a bunch of normals.

Even if back throws start up is 9 frames why would reversal be 8?!? I mean when the move isn't a reversal it gets an extra frame of start up not the other way around, if the start up is indeed 9 then reversal throw would be 9 frames:/
Or do you mean that back throw has an 8 frame start up and it is only 9 when it isn't reversal ??!?

 

[Zoidberg747]

Even if back throws start up is 9 frames why would reversal be 8?!? I mean when the move isn't a reversal it gets an extra frame of start up not the other way around, if the start up is indeed 9 then reversal throw would be 9 frames:/
Or do you mean that back throw has an 8 frame start up and it is only 9 when it isn't reversal ??!?

Its 8fs so it comes out in 8f, you're right that it is 9f if not reversaled.

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

It was 3 weeks ago lol. Exactly what has changed in the GM match up to make it suddenly go from one of QC's hardest, to an easy match up? GM wasn't even changed lol. Like I'm willing to hear it out, but wtf is the logic here :S

Also, the statements you are referring to being made about Quan chi by Tom Brady were made before the patch as well. Lol.



Actually, what you mean to say is I made this account on 4/20 this year, seeing as you have no idea how long I been browsing the site. But regardless, that is your rep, truth hurts, get more upset. And this is coming from one of the people who likes you.

 

[Rude]

Even if back throws start up is 9 frames why would reversal be 8?!? I mean when the move isn't a reversal it gets an extra frame of start up not the other way around, if the start up is indeed 9 then reversal throw would be 9 frames:/
Or do you mean that back throw has an 8 frame start up and it is only 9 when it isn't reversal ??!?

When you do a Reversal correctly, it gives you an extra frame. +1 frame.

So if you do a 9 frame Reversal throw, it comes out in 8.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Shujinkydink: .......








Explain to me again how GM was top 5 bad match-ups for QC 3 weeks ago but is now suddenly one of his easiest? I mean, these are your words, why don't you explain them instead of getting upset and trying to misdirect with memes

 

[Gustavness]

Let me get this straight...

Before the patch, quan had no way to get pressure off of him. Either quan cornered you, or you knocked him down, and it was pretty much a wrap with a bad guess or two. Now, he has a 6f D+1 that stops pressure, losing no options or damage in the tradeoff. and he's +3?

And now Quan players want it to guarantee vortex follow ups afterwards?

Any Quan main who has deluded themselves into thinking that Summoner is somehow mid tier and not top 1-2 variations in the game (or that he has bad matchups) is a fool. and not because of D+1, its because of skulls no longer triggering auto block. It only works in Summoner and allows stupid, stupid things to occur. the 40% midscreen unbreakables people are now posting is only the beginning.

Sorcerer was the slightly superior variation pre patch, but the skulls change has put summoner into a whole other category. I cant think of a single reason as to why NRS thought this would be a good idea unless they want to see 60% Puggles brutalities in tournaments. Hype, but broken.

(Also, anyone complaining about the absolutely useless charged B+2 change is a fool as well)

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

Explain to me again how GM was top 5 bad match-ups for QC 3 weeks ago but is now suddenly one of his easiest? I mean, these are your words, why don't you explain them instead of getting upset and trying to misdirect with memes

are you a quan main?

 

[legion666]

When you do a Reversal correctly, it gives you an extra frame. +1 frame.

So if you do a 9 frame Reversal throw, it comes out in 8.

Reversal doesn't give you an extra frame, it just does take an extra frame to get out of the block animation. So whatever the start up of the move that is exactly what you are getting. Normals can't be reversals, so if you do a 7 frame normal at the first possible frame after blocking it becomes 8 frames. So in order for reversal throw to come out at 8 frames it's initial start up had to be 8 frames and reversal guarantees that it doesn't become 9 frames after blocking.

 

[legion666]

Its 8fs so it comes out in 8f, you're right that it is 9f if not reversaled.

I honestly didn't know that, because in the move list both throws are said to be 10 frames. Is the in front throw still 10 frames? How did you find out about the backthrow being 8, just labbing???