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Whiff Cancel Options to stuff wakeup tactics

TYM member doubleperfect seems to have made a discovery that could literally shake Injustice's meta-game to its very core! What is that tech, you may wonder? Please read his italicized post below and be sure to review the recording that comes after it. If this is something you were not initially aware of...you may want to hit the lab and run some experiments (may have to vary on a few things depending on your character of choice).

I call this new tech, "whiff cancel option select". Just like in Super Street Fighter 4 (if anybody has played it, you'll understand the reference), you have an option to do multiple setups depending on what your opponent is gonna do, something that we refer to as an "option select." In Injustice, this kind of function works the same, but under a SPECIAL condition. What makes it awesome too is that you don't get punished hard for guessing wrong on their wake up attack when they backdash (will explain more on this).

Best way to explain it is that any normal move can be canceled with a special/super if it whiffs the opponent but ONLY when they do a invincible attack on wake up. Pretty much do a meaty attack (that is cancellable) on your opponent. If the opponent backdashes, the special won't come out!

For example, let's say you are playing against Superman and you are Solomon Grundy. One way to find out easily that what I'm saying is true is to get close to Superman and hit d+3 (sweep) immediately dash in and do d+1 (crouch jab) as a meaty attack (doesn't have to be perfect timing). If Supes does his rising grab, d+1 misses due to his invincibility going right through your attack. Now, here's the CATCH. If you know Supes is going to do rising grab as a wake up attack, you can do d+1 and buffer d+f+1 (anti-air) which grabs him out of the air! Even though the d+1 missed, it still registers the special attack!

That is freakin' INSANE! And this doesn't work just with Grundy, either; I also tested it on a few other characters, meaning that this "whiff cancel option select" is UNIVERSAL to the whole cast.
I am certain this has not been discovered yet! :D Also, please NRS, don't get rid of this even if this was not intended! I think this will blossom the meta game at a level much greater then it already is, perhaps even changing some of the tier list already released by top players. (I think even low-tier characters might rise up from this)

In short, you can cancel normals into specials only when opponents do an invincible wake up attack! This does NOT work if whiffed from far away when this condition has not been met.

Want proof? Check out the link to this Twitch archive below.

http://www.twitch.tv/doubleperfect/b/408444336

Watch @ 2;50 , 6;00~6;10 11;10, 12;43, 13;35 and 14;10.

Execution is sloppy if anybody decides to watch the whole 18 minutes, lol (super tired when I made this recording). :)


Post updated with a straightforward recording of the aforementioned tech, which can be seen below.

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Article edited by GamerBlake90.
 

Attachments

AssassiN

Warrior
It was in MK9 as well, I thought they removed it in Injustice.
Good shit for discovering it again.

So pretty much if a meaty attack hits someone in his invincibility frames, you can cancel it. It was more viable in MK9 since you could input an armored special to counter the wake-up.
 

VGB Joe Kerr

Insane Brilliance
exactly how does this work against six frame punch you in the face wake up moves? armored attacks? most supers? is it character specific tech or will this work with say a level 3 venom bane hitting you with a wake up special?

Now that I think it about it, if it were a universal way to eliminate everyone's wake up options I highly doubt it'd be a mainstay.
 

DeathAndHealing

Apprentice
So you arent technically whiffing anything, its just going through the invincibility frames?

Can you test if you can cancel into the universal Armored Launcher? That would be good for the whole cast.
 
This will most likely lose to wake-up attacks.

EDIT:
OH SHIT! If you cancel into f3/b3/Super it punishes wake-up attacks!!!
For this to be done properly, you need it to be meaty and just cancel as per normal. If attack passes through, your special will come out. BUT if the opponent just wake-up and block, you might lose those bars since it activates too.

Shame it doesn't work on backdashes.
 

DeathAndHealing

Apprentice
I just spent a minute or two on this, with Batgirl you can negate Black Adams lightning cage and Superman Rising Grab and Low Scoop options if you time it correctly. There is also the threat of faking a Whiff Cancel OS and blocking their wakeup entirely for a punish.
 
It was in MK9 as well, I thought they removed it in Injustice.
Good shit for discovering it again.

So pretty much if a meaty attack hits someone in his invincibility frames, you can cancel it. It was more viable in MK9 since you could input an armored special to counter the wake-up.

unfortunately i didnt play mk9 due to nobody playing the game in the area that i live. i did enjoy high level play from the game though.

and its not that the meaty attack hits. the game somehow behaves like you are somehow hitting them when you are not. :)
 
Shame it doesn't work on backdashes.

GOOD. it shouldn't work on back dashes. to explain why that would be bad. as we all know all characters have a set of tools and ranges on their own specials. lets say it does work on back dashes and i decide to do a special that has a ton of recovery frames, and the lack of range, i now end up being punished for my attempt.

the concept that it doesnt come out from backdash is good, it would mean you wont get punished for guessing wrong. (;
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
This is a bit old, but glad to see everyone caught up.
Us banes do a similar thing using our b.1 cancelled because of its short animation and + on block/hit.
Its what makes him such an oki beast since all of his specials are armored with venom.
 

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
This is good and bad.

I don't think d1 will be the answer here for whiff cancelling.

That is not an option select, that is a commitment. There is a reason why Aris uses the D2 in his video, and that's because you cannot cancel a d2 normally. The only way it is going to get cancelled is IF the opponent wakes up.

If you try and do this off of a d1, if the opponent does not do a wakeup attack, you could very well get punished on block.

Problem is, the same applies to D2's. If the opponent blocks your d2, most of the cast is around -11 or -12.

Any meaty normals that are NOT special cancellable and are advantagous on block, are a wonderful option tho.

D2 and D1 or any normal that his already special cancellable will be risky for you.
 

shaowebb

Get your guns on. Sheriff is back.
This deserves some attention. Does it work the same with release check both on and off? Do MB moves work as well? I'm thinking I now have a good way to setup some GA damage with this.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
As I said, old trick but useful on Bane because of b.1 being cancelable and having such good advantage on block.
That and all of our attacks are mostly safe on block. And having armor.
 
Does that mean Grundy can option select WC for wake-up attacks all day?
potentially, i think grundy just got better as a character because you can WC for the Armour and cancel the grab to take the wake up hit(s) and punish for 50+% easily while your opponent is in recovery frames. but gotta know when you think your opponent will decide to wake up reversal you.

even though this was brought up in mk9 it doesnt mean it shouldnt be reposted again since injustice is a NEW game. especially since some things are not the same as mk9 itself, like interacterables, system changes, clash, etc
 

Mestizo3

Noob
I don't think you all understand the ramifications of this option select with grundy's Walking corpse cancel, the only special move that can be cancelled in the game. Opponent does a wake up attack, walking corpse absorbs the hit, is canceled, full combo punish. Opponent just blocks, walking corpse is canceled, you're right next to them and do whatever you want, probably a down+2 (grundy's fastest normal) canceled into trait because that grabs them on hit and block.
 

shaowebb

Get your guns on. Sheriff is back.
I am going to push this everywhere and see if I cant get it front paged. This is major. Green Arrow is about to go into the lab. If you thought corner was scary before...

Moving this to gameplay.