Question - Gunslinger What is Your Gunslinger MU's?

[MadeOfMetal]

i was wondering if anyone had recent Matchup charts of Erron Blacks -
Gunslinger variation on Notepad handy?

Im curious what others MU's are with Gunslinger vs the rest of the cast?

here is what i got so far:

Liu Kang - Flame Fist = 3-7
Liu Kang - Dragons Fire = 4-6
Sub Zero - Grandmaster = 6-4
Sonya Covert Ops = 6-4
Sonya Demolition = 7-3
Cassie Brawler = 7-3
Cassie Hollywood = 5-5
Goro Kutan Warrior = ?
Mileena Ravenous = 5-5

to be continued...

 

[stamatis]

goro has super armour so he can get in easily,Now generally,tiers without teleport or reflect have real problem,i know johnny,kano,shinok,cassie and kotal kahn will d4 the mid 2 hit gun,but you need perfect timing,so it is not that easy since erron's zoning has become very difficult to deal with.
Also since erron black has a good corner carry,THE CHARS THAT THEY DO NOT HAVE AN ARMOUR COMBO STARTER OR A LONG RANGE ARMOR,will die in the corner,and if they don't they will fill his meter ,i think that it is hard to speak with numbers,but he is really powerful at the moment!

 

[carrion4worm]

Worse than my Outlaw matchups mostly.

 

[Big Pampering]

Can you explain why you think gunslinger beats grandmaster?

 

[stamatis]

Can you explain why you think gunslinger beats grandmaster?

he can slide the guns,but the clone does not exist since there are 2 hits,i do not knoww the match up very well,but grandmaster has to deal with a good zoning!

 

[The Celebrity]

I don't play Erron much, but I've theorized the Liu Kang matchup quite a bit and I 100% thought it would be the other way, 7-3 vs LK, in all variations.

It is difficult when he gets in, but anything cancelled after jazz hands (FBF4), EX slide reversal beats except EX DD1 + block low, which would be a sick read.

At full screen liu kang can't do anything.

• His low fireballs still get him tagged by SO4 (correct me if im wrong on this but im pretty sure he gets hit)
• his instant air fireballs get tagged by SO4 (because his feet hang down)
• his BF2 EX (what LK's love to use to get in) gets blown up by the double hitting SO4
• Once you have caltrops down it screws over his run in approach, which normally is an issue. But that only takes one SO4 to hit to get them down.
• His jump forward does not progress him far. He has a pretty mediocre jump distance.

I mean, yeah sure, if liu kang hits you, its really annoying to deal with. But you hit him once back, get him into a command grab, EX it and you're full screen and get to start up the zoning.

I'd like to hear your opinions OP on why you think this matchup is so bad...

 

[Big Pampering]

he can slide the guns,but the clone does not exist since there are 2 hits,i do not knoww the match up very well,but grandmaster has to deal with a good zoning!

It shouldn't be that hard to trade with his gunshots and its not like any decent subzero will just hide behind a clone in most matchups.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Cassie all 3 variations rape him trust me

 

[stamatis]

It shouldn't be that hard to trade with his gunshots and its not like any decent subzero will just hide behind a clone in most matchups.

1st.they spam the clone all day and they toss it
2.it is really decent zoning believe me!

 

[Dinosaur]

Blood god Kotal Kahn 7-3 in favor of Gunslinger
Id almost say 6-4 Against Hunter and warrior predator as well.

I'm basing these off my experiences in player match/ Ranked.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

I don't play Erron much, but I've theorized the Liu Kang matchup quite a bit and I 100% thought it would be the other way, 7-3 vs LK, in all variations.

It is difficult when he gets in, but anything cancelled after jazz hands (FBF4), EX slide reversal beats except EX DD1 + block low, which would be a sick read.

At full screen liu kang can't do anything.

• His low fireballs still get him tagged by SO4 (correct me if im wrong on this but im pretty sure he gets hit)
• his instant air fireballs get tagged by SO4 (because his feet hang down)
• his BF2 EX (what LK's love to use to get in) gets blown up by the double hitting SO4
• Once you have caltrops down it screws over his run in approach, which normally is an issue. But that only takes one SO4 to hit to get them down.
• His jump forward does not progress him far. He has a pretty mediocre jump distance.

I mean, yeah sure, if liu kang hits you, its really annoying to deal with. But you hit him once back, get him into a command grab, EX it and you're full screen and get to start up the zoning.

I'd like to hear your opinions OP on why you think this matchup is so bad...

IME Erron Gunslinger SOS takes to long for DF liu kangs Low projectile if liu starts it, he will get them to hit you before you fire off. especially off reaction!
erron is great at zoning in gunslinger, but Mid projectile air projectile and a low... kinda covers the map.. and it can be quite the guessing game to avoid correctly without being caught... just in my experience.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Blood god Kotal Kahn 7-3 in favor of Gunslinger
Id almost say 6-4 Against Hunter and warrior predator as well.

I'm basing these off my experiences in player match/ Ranked.

i appreciate your reply, but i do not consider Online matches MU experience... Online is worlds apart from Locals.

i have confirmed that One player can be favored over the other in terms of Lag... played with @I Am The LK the other day and weboth used Kenshi Kenjitsu which we both did the same thing... BF3 then block right after performing that special... he would hit me on block and i would throw back then block immidiately then he owuld return BF3 and i would be unab;le to block after using BF3... he was safe doing it, and i was not... that was my Connection to host/Node... i had to have been 14 frames behind the entire time.

even though i have no doubt @I Am The LK can beat me most matches since his Johnny is very solid... most matches im in constant blockstun from -1 to -18 frame moves on block... im unable to reversal or counter poke let alone Meter through on times i know i can. i cant even armor after he does 113 withJohnny alist which im sure is -13 to -18 frame move on block.

lk can back me up on this... he knows my SALT towards my connection... despite that.. im a good enough player that i know he has me beat, because is reads, placement and quick reaction, that he would most likely come ahead more than 50% of the time..

Tell them how bad my connection with you is LK!

 

[MadeOfMetal]

It shouldn't be that hard to trade with his gunshots and its not like any decent subzero will just hide behind a clone in most matchups.

honestly i have no problem beating Sub Zero Grandmaster with Gunslinger Offline. mixup with PutEmUp into OH/Low Launcher/Tick throw.. 11B3 into OH/tickthrow/Lowlauncher(this string is very fast on startup unreactable) his Zoneing is beast in this variation.. ha has a faster projectile than Subs... and it will beat out his clone. i can go through clone with SOS3 and 4. great Poke with errons D4/D3/D1 so many mixups and ways to open GM up... and ways to control Spacing and dictate what Sub is capable of doing.

id say a good Sub would be 5-5 with him about even since his EX ice eats all projectiles and slide low profiles SOS4 but SOS3 stops metered SLide so theres that as well.

id say it could go either way!

 

[The Celebrity]

IME Erron Gunslinger SOS takes to long for DF liu kangs Low projectile if liu starts it, he will get them to hit you before you fire off. especially off reaction!
erron is great at zoning in gunslinger, but Mid projectile air projectile and a low... kinda covers the map.. and it can be quite the guessing game to avoid correctly without being caught... just in my experience.

I would say it goes both ways then. If Gunslinger gets 1 trade with LK. SO4 vs Low Fireball, EB will have the frame advantage because of SO4's knockdown. And at full screen, whoever has the frame advantage probably completely slaughters the other, considering what we both mentioned. imo though, its much easier to deal with Liu Kang's zoning as EB than it would be for Liu Kang to deal with EB's zoning. If you have frame advantage, he basically only has the option to at some point jump the shots, and like I said about his jump, its not that great. EB always has the option for an EX Slide through a fireball to get in, whereas Liu Kang has no options like that (SO4 blows up all of them)

Even though I get your point, I think its more of a problem of you being inexperienced/poor in the Liu Kang matchup than Erron Black himself. You could say that its hard for anyone to get in since he has a low, mid and instant air projectile, but it doesn't mean he has only winning matchups.

One thing I forgot to add... He has no armored launcher. I feel Gunslinger (should) mostly struggle from characters with armored launchers since SO3 can be armored through on the last shot, along with all his strings into EX Grenade having holes. Best Kang can do is BF2 EX of DB2 EX.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

Hollywood: Her iagun startup is very fast and the bullets travel super fast too. From full screen away it's very hard for EB to compete zoning with SO4 (he will be hit out of SO). He can't even slide under iagun on reaction. He must walk in (luckily iagun hits high). At close range SO3 can be blown up by ex nut punch (this move doesn't even have armor, just lots of invincible frame). It's not a launcher but it guarantees a jump in and she can do whatever she wants. Her wake up can't be stuffed.
This is true for 3 variations: she really overwhelms him with her B1. Her jabs and pokes are a lso faster than him (7 frame d3, 8 frame d4). She has a safe armored launcher. EB only has unsafe armors and she can always use her B124/332 to bait and punish them. Against Spec Ops if she knocks him down the round is done there. However Brawler and Spec ops must get in since they have no lightning fast projectile like Hollywood

 

[SaJa]

1st.they spam the clone all day and they toss it

If sub toss his clone you can slide on reaction under it to whiff punish.

EB vs Kenshi (balanced) is 7-3. You can outzone him with bf3 (EB win on trade against Kenshi's bf3 and if he reflect you can slide, EB won't get touched by his own bomb dunno really why).

 

[Infinite]

Hollywood: Her iagun startup is very fast and the bullets travel super fast too. From full screen away it's very hard for EB to compete zoning with SO4 (he will be hit out of SO). He can't even slide under iagun on reaction. He must walk in (luckily iagun hits high). At close range SO3 can be blown up by ex nut punch (this move doesn't even have armor, just lots of invincible frame). It's not a launcher but it guarantees a jump in and she can do whatever she wants. Her wake up can't be stuffed.
This is true for 3 variations: she really overwhelms him with her B1. Her jabs and pokes are a lso faster than him (7 frame d3, 8 frame d4). She has a safe armored launcher. EB only has unsafe armors and she can always use her B124/332 to bait and punish them. Against Spec Ops if she knocks him down the round is done there. However Brawler and Spec ops must get in since they have no lightning fast projectile like Hollywood

Does sand grenade low profile enough to contend with her meterless zoning? How do you feel about Jax and Tanya, I feel like they have a lot of the same advantages over Erron that you listed.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

I wonder if anyone has


Does sand grenade low profile enough to contend with her meterless zoning? How do you feel about Jax and Tanya, I feel like they have a lot of the same advantages over Erron that you listed.

Yes sand grenade can low profile him. EB can duck iagun to avoid chip damage (and react to third hit of ex iagun). However EB can't react to her iagun to throw a sand grenade, he must guess. Even if he dodges a iagun and throws back a sand grenade Cassie can just jump in and shoot on the way down.
Jax: his projectile is quite slow,Gunslinger can actually zone him for some meter/life advantage. His wakeups are not as godlike as Hollywood. And I don't play Tanya so no comment about her.

 

[Barrogh]

It is difficult when he gets in, but anything cancelled after jazz hands (FBF4), EX slide reversal beats except EX DD1 + block low, which would be a sick read.

What about flying kick? Like, it's sick read as well, but flame fist is all about windmill roulette anyway.

I haven't tested it with Erron, but I've noticed that for some other characters with low hitting armor FK can actually work. For example:

Tanya's drill will trade without really allowing for combo;
Shaper Shinnok's scoop will go under Liu while taking a hit with armor, but characters both end up on the ground near each other after that, allowing Liu to punish since he still recovers way faster.

Then there's an option to dd1~ex-windill, which is situationally applicable, and even ex-dd1~ex-windmill for faster stuff, but FF Liu builds meter like mad anyway...

 

[ienjoywinning]

honestly i have no problem beating Sub Zero Grandmaster with Gunslinger Offline. mixup with PutEmUp into OH/Low Launcher/Tick throw.. 11B3 into OH/tickthrow/Lowlauncher(this string is very fast on startup unreactable) his Zoneing is beast in this variation.. ha has a faster projectile than Subs... and it will beat out his clone. i can go through clone with SOS3 and 4. great Poke with errons D4/D3/D1 so many mixups and ways to open GM up... and ways to control Spacing and dictate what Sub is capable of doing.

id say a good Sub would be 5-5 with him about even since his EX ice eats all projectiles and slide low profiles SOS4 but SOS3 stops metered SLide so theres that as well.

id say it could go either way!

11b3 is a terrible move outside of punishing , you can jump out of ever option he does after 11b3 except slide which is very - only use it to punish which 21122 does better for the most part.