Strategy We need to throw more often!

[Eddy Wang]

The power of Throw (free 11% damage)
We've been underestimating our grabs, i think we should grab more often after the blockstrings, specially when all they want to is crouch block. I was running some maths on damage with chip and i got this:

114~rd~slide = 6% chip (same as a blood ball, but build more meter)
EDC~F212,1+2~rd = 10% Chip (this we use on big hitbox characters out of 112 resets)
Grab = 11% Damage
114~EDC~F212,1+2~rd~slide = 16% Damage Chip (this is the red pain frame trap, succeeded only if they're jailed standing)

Why do we risk so much on blockstrings to get damage or spent meter to get this 10% chip when we can simply grab his ass between blockstrings? no meter drain, free 11% unbreakable, that can only be teched to escape.

The reason i go for chip blockstring damage is with the objective of build meter, take 16% extra in chip and avoid the opponent to build more meter, but sometimes, we use 2, or 3 blockstrings continuous to annoy them.

And i recently noticed, if we do:

41% reset + 14% chip + 11% throw = 66% damage, so dumb as cyrax resets.

if the opponent crouch block on the first F2, it won't matter anymore because if the opponent keeps guessing between overhead, slide or blockstring or crouch to end pressure, we should simply sacrifice the last 2% of the slide that would do 16% chip and feel already satisfied by 57% chip, meter rebuild and definitely the last hit should be more 11% free damage that can be accomplished by simply throwing the opponent and give you the opportunity to reverse their inputs on the wakeup.

So think about it for a sec and see for yourself if its not worth it?
The formula is (BnB w/ reset + red pain frame trap + grab = full damage)

F4 starter (no jiP)
36% +14% + 11% =61% Damage
36% + 14% + 11% = 61% Damage
37% + 14% + 11% = 62% Damage
39% + 14% + 11% = 65% Damage

BnBs that deals 36% Damage:
RedRaptor Combo: (F4~rd~ds, 2~rd~ds, 2~rd~ds, 112~rd) +13 to +12f
Fr Stack Variation: (F4~rd~ds, u3,2~rd~ds, 112~rd) +13f t0 +12f

BnBs that deals 37% Damage
LOTF preference: (F4~rd~ds, u3~aD, F4~rd~ds, 112~rd ) +11f to +10f
Eddy Wang Variation: (F4~rd~ds, U3, 2~rd~us, 2~DC, x, 112~rd) +12f to +11f

Combos that deals 39% Damage without jiP
aNinj's: (F4~rd~ds, u3,2~rd~ds, 2~DC~112~rd) +6f to +3f

jiP Starters that will deal great damage on resets
jiP, B2~rd~ds, U3, 2~rd~us, 2~DC, x, 112~rd (42% damage) +12 to +11f
Jip, F32~rd~ds, U3, 2~rd~us, 2~DC, x, 112~rd (41% damage) +12 to +11f


aNinj's Reset of 44% Damage w/jiP

Jip, B2~rd~ds, U3, 2~rd~ds, 2~DC x 112~rd (44%) +6 to +3f


Note: The ninj's variation is very damaging, but the chances of dropping the reset are very high, the cancel advantage isin't much, that is why in days like these we sacrifice damage on resets to get more frame advantage.

Ninj L0rdoftheFLY RedRaptor10 AssassiN[be] Johnny2d SaJa MITDJT @FCP/ EMP SCAR Mosp Prinz

 

[MashPotatoTower]

Ha!! I was just thinking the same thing! Like if there at -3 why not throw?

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

throws are never guaranteed. I get poked our of my throw attempts often as well as armored.

Throws also end pressure. I think it would be good to use only on characters we dont want next to us like cage or sonya. but it is good to use...just not on charaters like kenshi/freddy

 

[ryublaze]

The reason I don't throw a lot is because if they're going to stay there blocking then I'll do 1,1,4 (on high hitbox characters, which leads to EX Dagger on stand block) or b1,1,f4 on low hitbox characters to build more meter and put them into another guessing game, whereas throw only does 4% more but your opponent builds meter instead and it ends your pressure. Like Fly said, I use throws on Cage or Sonya cuz Skarlet's throw sends them midscreen away from you.

Another way to use throw is similar to Sub-Zero's b1,2,1 throw/21 mix-up. They either tech the throw or risk eating another combo.

 

[Seapeople]

I guess a throw could be guaranteed but it's so down to the frame that it will whiff against neutral crouch/pokes if your timing is off at all.
The different combos you listed here showing the amount of frame advantage after a reset will help me a lot for deciding which bnb to use. Thanks

Another thing I've wondered is why is it better to use 114 than 21 after the reset? If they don't block 21 you get a full combo, 21 can jail the opponent into EDC, and 212~rd is basically the same cancel advantage as 114~rd.
Do people normally use 114 because 21 is slower and harder to hit confirm into EDC?

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I guess a throw could be guaranteed but it's so down to the frame that it will whiff against neutral crouch/pokes if your timing is off at all.
The different combos you listed here showing the amount of frame advantage after a reset will help me a lot for deciding which bnb to use. Thanks

Another thing I've wondered is why is it better to use 114 than 21 after the reset? If they don't block 21 you get a full combo, 21 can jail the opponent into EDC, and 212~rd is basically the same cancel advantage as 114~rd.
Do people normally use 114 because 21 is slower and harder to hit confirm into EDC?

on low hitbox i lessen my damage a little bit to get more advantage to use 21...on big hitbox characters i use 114 because no matter what the advantage they are forced to block f212 into string. 114 ill never whiff on them.

I notice low hitbox characters tend to not block and d3/d4 more often out of pressure. Meaning if you have the cancel advantage for it you can get 21 rd up slash for free.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

its preference really.

 

[ryublaze]

I guess a throw could be guaranteed but it's so down to the frame that it will whiff against neutral crouch/pokes if your timing is off at all.
The different combos you listed here showing the amount of frame advantage after a reset will help me a lot for deciding which bnb to use. Thanks

Another thing I've wondered is why is it better to use 114 than 21 after the reset? If they don't block 21 you get a full combo, 21 can jail the opponent into EDC, and 212~rd is basically the same cancel advantage as 114~rd.
Do people normally use 114 because 21 is slower and harder to hit confirm into EDC?

standing 2 is 2 frames slower than standing 1 so it can be armored out of easier depending on the combo. 1,1,4 is also easier to confirm into EX Dagger than 2,1.

 

[SaJa]

Throw's good in corner. What you want is a big BnB pusher (also called Farenheit BnB).
I guess, Skarlet could throw as well as Kabal so why not. Between 2 pressures, grabs pushes your opponent to react sooner or later which can brings him to the slash (damoclès' sword).

Same stuff for Rain. If the opponent keeps blocking too long on 4, 3, RHc, so just 4, 3, RHc, grab him twice and 4, 3, RH to the 3th. ;p

BnBs that deals 36% Damage:
RedRaptor Combo: (F4~rd~ds, 2~rd~ds, 2~rd~ds, 112~rd) +13 to +12f
Fr Stack Variation: (F4~rd~ds, u3,2~rd~ds, 112~rd) +13f t0 +12f

BnBs that deals 37% Damage
LOTF preference: (F4~rd~ds, u3~aD, F4~rd~ds, 112~rd ) +11f to +10f
Eddy Wang Variation: (F4~rd~ds, U3, 2~rd~us, 2~DC, x, 112~rd) +12f to +11f

Combos that deals 39% Damage without jiP
aNinj's: (F4~rd~ds, u3,2~rd~ds, 2~DC~112~rd) +6f to +3f

jiP Starters that will deal great damage on resets
jiP, B2~rd~ds, U3, 2~rd~us, 2~DC, x, 112~rd (42% damage) +12 to +11f
Jip, F32~rd~ds, U3, 2~rd~us, 2~DC, x, 112~rd (41% damage) +12 to +11f


aNinj's Reset of 44% Damage w/jiP

Jip, B2~rd~ds, U3, 2~rd~ds, 2~DC x 112~rd (44%) +6 to +3f

Damn Eddy, I still don't see my BnB up there T_T

 

[HGTV DrFlash44]

Free 11%. Pfft does anyone else here remember when Skarlet's towards grab was 18%?

 

[zaf]

I think that a lot of people need to throw with their characters in general.
The way the game works, kind of makes throws a turn off when you can get a lucky jump in and score 40%.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Eddy Wang, that's alot of information haha, but I'll take it into account and utilize it. I feel my skarlet is decent, but could be way better if I put time in with her, which I'm going to do, so thanks for tagging me into this, the more info the better.

 

[AssassiN]

I'm throwing more and more lately, I'm trying to stay away from doing it when I lose my last bar of meter.
Because that's just predictable and you don't gain any meter.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I get the point of not throwing because it may be predictable.
What i'm trying to get at, is that i wouldn't hurt to throw after a blockstring of F212 inconsistently, specially when they're expecting a late downslash, slide or another blockstring, the opponent generally will just keep fuzzy guarding until he finds a breach to do whatever he needs to.

So catching between the last frame of red dash and put a throw where you would put a standing 1 (Which are both 10f startup) it would give you a free throw%.

And how would you lose the advantage if in this case especially there is a high chance of giving you a life lead of 61% of cumulative damage?

And there is also a high chance of your next move actually hits when they think you're gonna throw them out

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I really only throw in order to switch positions.

 

[Espio]

I feel throws are underutilized in general, adds a nice mix up/guessing game, even if your character doesn't have built in high low mix ups, especially off of block strings, good stuff.

 

[SaJa]

I just throwed my pad after losing, it works ! *<8-D

 

[Illmatix]

depends what you want, that meter you build from blockstrings is just as good.