Question Wakeup-negating tech - where does it leave Sinestro?

[Ronald_A_Knox]

As you might know, Aris has found something in a Grundy thread and shared it with the world. This is a potential way to completely negate and punish wake-ups. This video explains it fully:

So i ask all Sinestro mains - where does it leave Sinestro? As a zoning character who struggles with pressure, having his wake-up negated is a major blow that might completely alter matchups. What characters can abuse it and what can be done about it?

I summon thee in particular, Pig Of The Hut

 

[JaredL]

>sinestro
>wakeup

lol

 

[Ronald_A_Knox]

>sinestro
>wakeup

lol

Y u hatin' on arachnid? XD

 

[JaredL]

Y u hatin' on arachnid? XD

Dat shit is -12
Has no invulnerability frames

 

[Ronald_A_Knox]

Dat shit is -12
Has no invulnerability frames

Huh. Strange.

 

[babalook]

i feel like grundy could heavily take advantage of this or anyone with a special with armor

 

[FrothyOmen]

This is less of a big deal than it was in MK. In MK, you could get armor for 1 bar of meter. In this game unless you're grundy or bane, you're gonna have to YOLO cancel your ghost hitbox normal into a 2 bar bounce cancel. At least it's (usually) + on block I guess.

I don't think this hurts Sinestro much, if at all.

 

[Swoops]

Yea, Sinestro doesn't really have "wake ups." Like...at all. He pretty much needs to rely on back dash and blocking until he gets trait.

Offensively he makes really good use of it though. F2d1 xx db1 is a really solid trap that works on a variety of wake ups.

 

[dittO]

This whiff-special-cancel option select does NOT only work in the wake up system of the game (although this is where it can be applied).
I have also noticed with Sinestro for example that If you jump with any button (1, 2 or 3) while you are far from the opponent and cancel your jump attack into axe of terror, then the axe will NOT come out. However, If by any chance you jump close to the opponent and If by any chance your jump attack whiffs (while the opponent is close to you) and you cancel into axe, then the axe WILL come out.
While this is a very special situation to occure, the uses of this technique can mostly be applied at the wake up of the opponent. I just wanted to point out that the game seems to "allow" whiff cancel into specials when the two characters are close to each other (?)

 

[Ronald_A_Knox]

Offensively he makes really good use of it though. F2d1 xx db1 is a really solid trap that works on a variety of wake ups.

Didn't really occur to me to use it. Usually if they are close to me after a hard knockdown - i am probably doing something terribly wrong.

While this is a very special situation to occure, the uses of this technique can mostly be applied at the wake up of the opponent. I just wanted to point out that the game seems to "allow" whiff cancel into specials when the two characters are close to each other (?)

This strikes me as a hit detection bug. Actual hit-damage detection and the hitbox detection seem to live in two different universes. When one doesn't occur but the other occurs - we get this. So you did hit them and you didn't hit them. Such a paradox is the easiest to occur on wakeup, where invincible frames cause it for you.

Tl;Dr: "Oh noes i am hit for X damage!" and "Oh, you hit, go do a special cancel now" are separate detectors. Should NRS fix it?

 

[dittO]

I can't say for sure If this needs fixing or not...
As a Sinestro player, where I don't think that I have the best wake up of the game, I don't mind leaving this as it is.
Certain "weaker" characters like Bane might get a benefit out of this...

 

[Swoops]

Didn't really occur to me to use it. Usually if they are close to me after a hard knockdown - i am probably doing something wrong

This is very true. In certain matches though, if he has trait, I like to make use of how strong and tricky his offense can get and keep the opponent close. For example Aquaman completely screws over the idea behind sinestros zoning, as he can punish everything you do with trident, but you can't punish him for using trident outside of a certain range. In that case I just like to do resets up close for as much damage as I can get and then hover outside of his sweet spot range.

This glitch happens with back dashes in reversal situations too. I was messing around with hawkgirl not too long ago and I was able to special cancel her f1,1 if the opponent back dashed between the string.