Using F+23 to get your damage

[Tom Brady]

ok, we all know that B+312 and 334 can be interrupted. For some reason this has people believing that Raiden has no way to hunt big damage in open space when opponents have meter for armor/x-ray/a parry character..

while this is true that if a character has a parry like CSZ or a character with armor has meter.x-ray it prevents Raiden from hunting his big damage in open space without some kind of mind game, Raiden can use F+23 to get combo damage.

F+23~shocker does not work BUT F+23~ex shocker works and can be hit confirmed. This allows Raiden to use his F+2 to hunt for combo damage without having to worry about being interrupted.

open space F+23~ex shocker, 334, dash F+2~electric fly = 33%

 

[UsedForGlue]

Glad your back posting man.

 

[REDRUM]

im glad you lied again about NEVER posting on here again


Good shit brah...

 

[Tom Brady]

I have no problem posting knowledge on the game to help. just wont ever help the sub-zero forum.

 

[TotteryManx]

When I use Raiden I mostly use f23 because it feels more safe, so its good to know I'm doing something right. Justin Wong was using that string a lot at mlg. Another thing raiden players need to do more is grab. For instance b3 grab every now and then. A lot of people will be looking to interrupt that string, so its good to keep them guessing since they might crouch to avoid a grab. In return that could open up 331. If that's the correct string?

 

[Tom Brady]

B+3 then throw can be interrupted the same way and timing as the string. if they are going to interrupt the string, they will interrupt the throw as well.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

The only issue with this is that its hard to use whiff punishing, cause at F23 max range the Ex shocker will miss, you can also do F23 Ex shocker, F2 VB 334 superman which is 35% and slightly easier to do. Other than that yeah it makes sense.

On the flipside, F23 is 0 on block and gives pushback allowing to use B3 as a whiff punish

 

[TotteryManx]

B+3 then throw can be interrupted the same way and timing as the string. if they are going to interrupt the string, they will interrupt the throw as well.

Oh, I was under the impression it can only be interrupted after b31, not after b3.

 

[KidDOJO]

This actually helped me to dash out a lot more damage.
I can't wait to try it on my friend who's playing Kung Lao.

Thanks man!

 

[Albo]

Tom, 22 also a great string only of a jump in punch though in open space. First of all 22 is the only string that jails the opponent of a jip and allows you to use vicinity blast on block without the opponent ducking which leaves you 0 on block and allows you to continue pressure if you wish. You can also finish the string with with 22b4 which high level players will block 99% of the time but it only leaves raiden at -2 anyway. Also when you cancel 22 into tele, it only leaves you at -3 so you can continue into pressuring.

The best thing about the string though imo, is that you can easily hit confirm of a jip and link into regular shocker for 37%. No need to use ex shocker as is the case with f23 but the downside is it has to be of a jip (or crossover) since this string can be ducked (while blocking also) and full combo or uppercut punished if you don't use it of a jip.

jip, 22, shocker, 1, vb, 334, superman-37%

22 itself on block leaves you at 0 so you can not link it into anything, trick your opponent, and go into grab, more pressure mind games and so on. Bottom line, this string is godlike and needs to be used more. What's your opinion on this string Tom?

 

[Wemfs]

I have no problem posting knowledge on the game to help. just wont ever help the sub-zero forum.

Sucks for all of you sub zero players. ;p I hope you stop by and say hello in the Noob forums sometime.

 

[Chaosphere]

Thanks for posting this. I've never thought to link ex-shocker after f23. I usually don't use f23 ever unless it's after a jip or during teleport pressure. I tried to use f23 a couple times while playing footsies and the f2 would hit and the follow-up 3 would miss so I stopped playing around with it. Looks like I need to play around with it more and get the exact spacing down.

 

[Peckapowa]

Tom, 22 also a great string only of a jump in punch though in open space. First of all 22 is the only string that jails the opponent of a jip and allows you to use vicinity blast on block without the opponent ducking which leaves you 0 on block and allows you to continue pressure if you wish. You can also finish the string with with 22b4 which high level players will block 99% of the time but it only leaves raiden at -2 anyway. Also when you cancel 22 into tele, it only leaves you at -3 so you can continue into pressuring.

The best thing about the string though imo, is that you can easily hit confirm of a jip and link into regular shocker for 37%. No need to use ex shocker as is the case with f23 but the downside is it has to be of a jip (or crossover) since this string can be ducked (while blocking also) and full combo or uppercut punished if you don't use it of a jip.

jip, 22, shocker, 1, vb, 334, superman-37%

22 itself on block leaves you at 0 so you can not link it into anything, trick your opponent, and go into grab, more pressure mind games and so on. Bottom line, this string is godlike and needs to be used more. What's your opinion on this string Tom?

back 2 f 1 is better if u want to cancel into tele and that also jails standing...

vicinity blast is decent for pressure because u can counter-teleport their poke, meaning its a guessing game, u can also try to back dash though some pokes might beat you, also if u do it quick enough u can beat them to the punch with a poke or jump over.

 

[Albo]

back 2 f 1 is better if u want to cancel into tele and that also jails standing...

vicinity blast is decent for pressure because u can counter-teleport their poke, meaning its a guessing game, u can also try to back dash though some pokes might beat you, also if u do it quick enough u can beat them to the punch with a poke or jump over.

They're both at -3 when cancelled into tele and both at 0 when cancelled into nothing on block. I guess another thing they share is that they both shouldn't only be used of a jip since it's very risky with b2f1 is slow as hell at 25f of startup and 22 can be crouched blocked and neutral crouched.

With b2f1 though, this can also be used as a non interruptable string mid screen for damage along with f23 but you're going to have to use ex shocker and in the corner you can use regular shocker and it'll connect. You can get an easy 38% midscreen with jip, b2f1, ex shocker, 1/f2, vb, 334, superman and around 36-38 ish in the corner without any meter. This string can be easily hit confirmed into shocker in the corner and ex shocker midscreen.

It's good to have these strings along with f23 as an option anyway when 334/b312 are getting interrupted although they all have there advantages and disadvantages. F23 would be the less riskier option then the other two since you don't have to risk jip and getting anti aired but it's trickier to anti air a crossover depending on which character your facing so doing those two of a crossover isn't such a bad idea.

Also Tom regarding the combo you mentioned in the op, why not just do f23, ex shocker, 1/f2/2, vb, 334 for 35% and that's 38% with a jip.

 

[lazybird123]

back 2 f 1 is better if u want to cancel into tele and that also jails standing...

Are you sure? I thought the B2 was too slow to jail after a JIP

 

[Albo]

Are you sure? I thought the B2 was too slow to jail after a JIP

According to Somberness (thanks for the info), jip cancel advantage is up to +18 and the startup of b2 is 25f so which means there is a 7f gap (25-18) to interrupt it, armour out, raiden tele, jump out and so on. It's still difficult to read that your opponent is going to do b2f1 after a jip though and react to it by escaping or interrupting unless you are a Jedi and guessing wrong and eating a full combo from 334 won't leave you a happy bunny.

 

[Rydog J]

.

open space F+23~ex shocker, 334, dash F+2~electric fly = 33%

after the f23~en shocker......do f2 vb dash 334 superman for 35%. Hey every last % counts

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

I started experimenting with this.Glad someone posted it so I could get an in-depth look at it.

 

[Altaire]

ok, we all know that B+312 and 334 can be interrupted. For some reason this has people believing that Raiden has no way to hunt big damage in open space when opponents have meter for armor/x-ray/a parry character..

while this is true that if a character has a parry like CSZ or a character with armor has meter.x-ray it prevents Raiden from hunting his big damage in open space without some kind of mind game, Raiden can use F+23 to get combo damage.

F+23~shocker does not work BUT F+23~ex shocker works and can be hit confirmed. This allows Raiden to use his F+2 to hunt for combo damage without having to worry about being interrupted.

open space F+23~ex shocker, 334, dash F+2~electric fly = 33%

Good shit, Menoutis.

I was actually experimenting with this earlier, so I came to check the Raiden forum and see if anyone else was experimenting with it. I did find out that he can get up to 35% off this with F2 3 EX shocker, F2 V blast, dash 3 3 4 superman, but that's not the best part: F2 3 jails into V blast. If the F2 3 catches your opponent standing, you can create a mixup between F2 3 and F2 3 V blast, similar to Shang's mixups with ground skull at the end of strings. Obviously, this isn't an option if your opponent is in crouch block when the string connects, but so long as they're in a stand block animation when you connect with F2, this is a great mixup option. There IS a bit of extra delay on a raw F2 3, meaning you can't recover quickly enough to make it a true attack/grab mixup, but it still slows your opponent's momentum by committing them to look for the V blast. IMO, this is huge. You're giving yourself a safe way to introduce a safe jump opportunity on a correct guess, and safe jumps should never be taken lightly if Cage, Cyrax and Kitana are any indication.

inb4 the inevitable "Wait, you play Raiden?"

 

[NKZero]

Good shit, Menoutis.

I was actually experimenting with this earlier, so I came to check the Raiden forum and see if anyone else was experimenting with it. I did find out that he can get up to 35% off this with F2 3 EX shocker, F2 V blast, dash 3 3 4 superman, but that's not the best part: F2 3 jails into V blast. If the F2 3 catches your opponent standing, you can create a mixup between F2 3 and F2 3 V blast, similar to Shang's mixups with ground skull at the end of strings. Obviously, this isn't an option if your opponent is in crouch block when the string connects, but so long as they're in a stand block animation when you connect with F2, this is a great mixup option. There IS a bit of extra delay on a raw F2 3, meaning you can't recover quickly enough to make it a true attack/grab mixup, but it still slows your opponent's momentum by committing them to look for the V blast. IMO, this is huge. You're giving yourself a safe way to introduce a safe jump opportunity on a correct guess, and safe jumps should never be taken lightly if Cage, Cyrax and Kitana are any indication.

inb4 the inevitable "Wait, you play Raiden?"

Wait.....you play Raiden? Haha but good stuff man that does add something to Raiden's offense and then it opens up more of his game e.g. throw, F24 another F23 mix-up etc. Then run away with the life lead and you're golden!

So if you come in with a JIP, opponent must block standing and then they have no choice but to block the vicinity blast.

 

[Chaosphere]

Good shit, Menoutis.

I was actually experimenting with this earlier, so I came to check the Raiden forum and see if anyone else was experimenting with it. I did find out that he can get up to 35% off this with F2 3 EX shocker, F2 V blast, dash 3 3 4 superman, but that's not the best part: F2 3 jails into V blast. If the F2 3 catches your opponent standing, you can create a mixup between F2 3 and F2 3 V blast, similar to Shang's mixups with ground skull at the end of strings. Obviously, this isn't an option if your opponent is in crouch block when the string connects, but so long as they're in a stand block animation when you connect with F2, this is a great mixup option. There IS a bit of extra delay on a raw F2 3, meaning you can't recover quickly enough to make it a true attack/grab mixup, but it still slows your opponent's momentum by committing them to look for the V blast. IMO, this is huge. You're giving yourself a safe way to introduce a safe jump opportunity on a correct guess, and safe jumps should never be taken lightly if Cage, Cyrax and Kitana are any indication.

inb4 the inevitable "Wait, you play Raiden?"

Yep. All good stuff. f23 is 0 on block so that's lovely. Another great thing about f23~vb is that small hitbox characters like kitana and reptile can't avoid the vb like they can off of any other string. I've been using this for awhile, but I never thought to throw the ex-shocker at the end. Even though I made the blocked string gap chart I somehow overlooked it haha.

 

[Altaire]

Wait.....you play Raiden? Haha but good stuff man that does add something to Raiden's offense and then it opens up more of his game e.g. throw, F24 another F23 mix-up etc. Then run away with the life lead and you're golden!

So if you come in with a JIP, opponent must block standing and then they have no choice but to block the vicinity blast.

Well, off a JIP, I think the better mixup is just JIP throw and JIP 3 3 4, unless you're really worried about your opponent armoring through it. I guess you could go for F2 3 to add another layer to the mixup on block, but I'd sooner just go with the 3 3 4 to get better damage without spending meter. I feel this is mostly just good for grounded pressure.

 

[Chaosphere]

Well, off a JIP, I think the better mixup is just JIP throw and JIP 3 3 4, unless you're really worried about your opponent armoring through it. I guess you could go for F2 3 to add another layer to the mixup on block, but I'd sooner just go with the 3 3 4 to get better damage without spending meter. I feel this is mostly just good for grounded pressure.

Yeah that's what you want to do against characters without armor. People seem to be able to armor through it against me every time I try to use 334 or b312. Against characters with armor, jip throw like you said and I often catch people with jip, b3, throw.

Sometimes I'll go for jip, d4~teleport or jip, d4 into f24 shenanigans. Sometimes you can condition someone to block low after a jip if you're going into d4 off it it a lot. This can open up for f4 overhead after a jip... but it's not a 100% solid strategy. Just something to try out or do if you see an opening.