Up Fireballs

[kanaida]

Just wondering if anyone else uses all the fireballs, especially the up ones. Every time I fight a shang tsung they try to play him like johnny cage or kabal, just all kinds of little punches, dashes, the knee GS etc...

Personally I think they're not using him for 50% of his potential. The in front up skull is invaluable vs aggressive melee attackers (rg. johnny/jax/sonya), especially jumpers. I like to cUS, mGS, fGS, EX-fGS. Also if a player rolls on wakeup all the time, doing a combo that ends in fUS sends them right back into another combo.

I also constantly knock noob and kung lao out of their teleports before the go up on wakeup, and hit people trying to jump punch me from the back of the head at zero distance.

Also if you play tag, using his 3 fireballs opens up quite a bit of combo options.

Some people tend to call shangs spammers when we use the arsenal that was given to us, but we don't have the luxury of teleports or nasty hand to hand combos that move across the screen.

 

[Onilordasmodeus]

I love watching Woundcowboy play Shang, and he uses all the fireball variations as needed. Shang's zoning is very good over all, if you are handicapping yourself by not using his entire arsenal, then you are not playing Shang to the best of his ability,

 

[NKZero]

All of Shang Tsung's fireballs have some use.

Obviously the three different ground skulls have appropriate uses depending on opponent positioning etc. as well as for up close pressure since they're +2 on block.

Up skulls I wouldn't use unless for oki or if I can let them out safely from about 3/4 to full screen distance. In the neutral game I'll mix it up between above up skull and in front up skull. When they block an up skull I'll make them respect the ground skull follow-up, and once they respect it, I'll 'spam' up skulls to keep them guessing.

In terms of oki, I use in front up skull to beat out advancing wake-ups, above up skull for normal get up, and behind up skull for tech rolls.

Straight skull stops people advancing and can catch them by surprise. Not too bad as an AA either.

That being said, Shang has a very good up close game as well so I think he's effective anywhere on the screen. Soul steal is his best move though and at that range you can really dictate your offense.

 

[legion666]

cUp Skull is an excellent tool as well as his other Skulls. Plus Up Skulls play crucial role in his fantastic corner game. You should watch Wound Cowboy play - he uses almost all the skull and Soul Steal to zone the shit out of people or corner trap them to death. At the Soul Steal distance his Shang outzones Kenshis, and even outzones Kabals with his awesome Ground Skull usage. And his Shang is pretty godlike upclose!

 

[legion666]

Just wondering if anyone else uses all the fireballs, especially the up ones.
I also constantly knock noob and kung lao out of their teleports before the go up on wakeup, and hit people trying to jump punch me from the back of the head at zero distance.

I don't think you can knock Kung Lao out of wake up tele with an Up Skull as it is invincible on the way up. It only happens when they either fail to do a wake up properly and loose the invincibility frames or do a simple tele out of standing, ducking, jumping. Don't know about Noob though, but I think it implies to his tele as well if it is done as a wake up attack.

 

[kanaida]

I keep hearing woundcowboy but haven't seen his fireball use yet, but I use em all too, barely need any physical attacks lol. Id like to play him, worked up to 93rd spot on xbl ranked tag so far with shang and kano. Its awesome when you have a partner that can flow with you and seamlessly work with you like clockwork. 1vs1 is cool, and I know you guys love that, but for me its like 1/20th of all the possibilities and cool things you can do. Almost everyday we make up new tactics.

 

[kanaida]

I use the fUs now pretty often for fast little bastards who roll constantly to try and be smart. Its safe at the end of something else, but very costly outside of a combo etc..

 

[Element_]

I had great interest in Shang because of the up Fireball , I main Sektor and of course ..throw them up Missiles out , its not only a frame trap they have..them projectiles can make your opponent make huge mistakes or even just freeze and wonder what the hell is going on lol. I learned Shang easily compared to where others say he's one of the hardest to master.

 

[kanaida]

You can do plenty of interesting things with sektor + shang vs sektor lol, like 2 homing missles plus fireballs and teleports. Shangs main issue is the slow uppercut and the slowness, once you get the hang of evasion via fireballs its all good. Id say hes the master of capitalizing on peoples mistakes lol Overall though, it takes a few months to get his big combos into memory muscle at the right time, another few for escapes, juggles and fakeouts, some more months for learning all the other guys basics and morph timing/mixing, and then a few more to make up strange combos as you go along fluidly, like EXgs, then comboing or uppercutting backwards as he falls. The close up fireball is the funk though, no one can rush you down. Its the insurance chip. Its a free breaker that damages opponents.

 

[Element_]

You can do plenty of interesting things with sektor + shang vs sektor lol, like 2 homing missles plus fireballs and teleports. Shangs main issue is the slow uppercut and the slowness, once you get the hang of evasion via fireballs its all good. Id say hes the master of capitalizing on peoples mistakes lol Overall though, it takes a few months to get his big combos into memory muscle at the right time, another few for escapes, juggles and fakeouts, some more months for learning all the other guys basics and morph timing/mixing, and then a few more to make up strange combos as you go along fluidly, like EXgs, then comboing or uppercutting backwards as he falls. The close up fireball is the funk though, no one can rush you down. Its the insurance chip. Its a free breaker that damages opponents.

hmm I wouldn't say it takes a few months to get his combos in memory , but I do think you need a month to really get to grips with the character , yeah his d2 sucks...but his d3 is amazing for poking/counter-poking etc .also I think his combos look the most "swag" out of the entire cast , love using him in casuals .

 

[kanaida]

Try this one that i made up, pretty useful:
up skull, JIP, f4,3,4, Ex straight fireballs, fGS, ExGS, [Add spices here]

Also, you can start air combos with up skulls:
When opponent jumps forward:
cUS,mGS,fGS,ExGS, Do whatever you want here

If you got the jumpers coming at you trying to avoid the fireballs an JIP you, just skip the last fireball and dash forward under them i've gotten this trained to the point now where it's comical lol

 

[Qwark28]

lol, as if online leaderboards mean anything...

 

[kanaida]

forgot to mention his d1 is actually very useful for when you'd normally do a d4 to get away but would get hit such as johnny's roundhouse, raiden's superman if right next to you.

Finally the most devastating poke is his elbow haha, b1. Do it over and over vs annoyingly fast people like raiden when he teleports to beat him to the punch and throw them after a block or 2, or poke low a little

 

[kanaida]

lol, as if online leaderboards mean anything...

It does, it means im playing waaay too much for having a full time job
Plus id say it teaches you new things when you fight uniquely different players. If you're not playing regularly or against the same player you're not going to advance diversity very well. That said I always play offline matches with my tag partner because hes the only person that knows how to play on the same level. The only other people i know that play in person are a few ladies, but we're not there to really fight

 

[Element_]

forgot to mention his d1 is actually very useful for when you'd normally do a d4 to get away but would get hit such as johnny's roundhouse, raiden's superman if right next to you.

Finally the most devastating poke is his elbow haha, b1. Do it over and over vs annoyingly fast people like raiden when he teleports to beat him to the punch and throw them after a block or 2, or poke low a little

i just wish his b1,2,1 string was O on block , i think its -6 or something..but then again his GS is +2 on block so its F4 Gs Ftw , i also think his fireballs should have a little faster cool down time , i get annoyed when trying to trade with a good zoning character . Whats your PSN tag kanaida? we can play some games if you want sometime .

 

[kanaida]

i got xbox sorry lol
b1,2,1 then up skull. collateral damage, frames are irrelevant lol that f4 gs is totally played out. its rare that i ever do that, id say only after a dash to surprise people here and there. when that up skull hits combo time, or chance to change momentum. I'll make a video soon. Totally re-thought the flow of things, and made new ways to just go with the flow rather than try to pin people with those kind of tactics.

 

[Element_]

And the last hit of that b1,2,1 string is overhead...i love it , and you can bet your bottom dollar that if you go online you will get away with it most of the time..unless you play someone that knows frame data , any Shang player that try's using that string on my Sektor for pressure gets 2,1,4 back lol

 

[kanaida]

Its a risk, I agree. But the payoff is at least 30%-51% damage depending on bars etc... If you miss. 1 bar gets me around 42%. The speed of the match and skill of opponent changes what I choose to do too so I may just do a b1,2,ex soul steal to push you, and block, then counter, or use sektor against you. Options are the best part. Im always in the dojo figuring out exactly how many hits out of combos and juggles will allow what particular fireballs to hit because shang has so many I can pressure continuously no matter where I am. At the cost of having to predict everything in advance nothing like ground skulling people out of teleports right into a combo.

 

[Roko1985]

i got xbox sorry lol
b1,2,1 then up skull. collateral damage, frames are irrelevant lol that f4 gs is totally played out. its rare that i ever do that, id say only after a dash to surprise people here and there. when that up skull hits combo time, or chance to change momentum. I'll make a video soon. Totally re-thought the flow of things, and made new ways to just go with the flow rather than try to pin people with those kind of tactics.

Isn't B121~ground skull better option?!? If hits then 41% combo. If blocked D1 or D3 into soul steal. It is not that hard to jump or poke-block the B121up skull.

 

[kanaida]

Yes it is, theoretically. But if you experiment in practice, youll see that people seem to forget that sky ball is coming back down lol, leading to even more damage. Basically anything you start with a sky fireball is worth taking a hit from a punch as a mistake because damage scaling works in your favor pretty well.

Take kitana for a sec.
a) f4,1 then f1,2
or
b) f1,2 then f4,1

same combos, different order. But 'A' does more damage. In shangs case, the more damaging single hits should always hit first when possible. the point of b1,2,1 up skull is for it NOT to be a combo until the up skull hits, then do your JIP combo. The timing just happens to be perfect for the ball to land as they get up, and you can hit them as they block either way. plain roundhouses are great in combos too.

 

[legion666]

I keep hearing woundcowboy but haven't seen his fireball use yet, but I use em all too, barely need any physical attacks lol. Id like to play him, worked up to 93rd spot on xbl ranked tag so far with shang and kano. Its awesome when you have a partner that can flow with you and seamlessly work with you like clockwork. 1vs1 is cool, and I know you guys love that, but for me its like 1/20th of all the possibilities and cool things you can do. Almost everyday we make up new tactics.

If you haven"t seen cowboy's use of fireballs than you haven't seen him play a serious tournament or at all. Of course he doesn't use all the possible options. But Shang still has a lot of unexplored tech I think. At least cowboy shows some of his stuff at serious tournaments. There are no other serious pro players who use him well. Cowboys placing top 8 at Evo only proves it.