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Trouble with the speed of the combo's.

PunisherAlive

Apprentice
I'm having trouble with Teleport B312, my oppenent always blocks it because it's too slow, what combo's do you use and how do you play Raiden?
 

DanableLector

UPR DanableLector
When B312 is blocked your left with 3 primary options.

1. teleport again immediately after noticing the 3rd hit in the sting is blocked and mix it up with raidens only low combo (22B4) or you could try your luck with B312 again.

2. you can cross them over with a jump punch immediately after your sting. so jump punch and use B312, 334, or 22B4.

3. after your string is blocked follow it up with a shocker. Lots of opponents you play against will be licking their chops waiting to hit you with a combo of their own after blocking your B312, and thats fine.. you will catch them with the shocker. after shocker id recommend either a straight super man, or a 334 to superman. whichever is most comfortable to you.
 

DanableLector

UPR DanableLector
I probably should have noted.. raidens low combo is only recommended as a means to keep you opponent honest.. because really anyone that fights raiden can simply stand and block his main 2 strings.. depsite this following method 1,2, and 3. to keep the pressure on non stop is enough to break an opponents block most of time. I am learning the ins and outs of raiden and this is what i have picked up so far. Good luck to you my friend.
 

Raiman

Mortal
When B312 is blocked your left with 3 primary options.

1. teleport again immediately after noticing the 3rd hit in the sting is blocked and mix it up with raidens only low combo (22B4) or you could try your luck with B312 again.

2. you can cross them over with a jump punch immediately after your sting. so jump punch and use B312, 334, or 22B4.

3. after your string is blocked follow it up with a shocker. Lots of opponents you play against will be licking their chops waiting to hit you with a combo of their own after blocking your B312, and thats fine.. you will catch them with the shocker. after shocker id recommend either a straight super man, or a 334 to superman. whichever is most comfortable to you.
id check them with a vicinity blast instead of shocker. even though it wiffs on some characters its still safer than a blcoked shocker and it will allow for a full commbo if they try to jump after a 334, and if they don't jump you can continue pressure if it hits them standing. if they start no block ducking the vicinity blast check them with a superman
 

shoshinsha

Apprentice
Raiden has a lot of options for breaking his opponent's guard. He's like one of those "Choose Your Own Adventure" books from when we were kids (if you were a kid in the 80s). I don't think I can even list them all, but here's a few that come to mind:

- Interrupt your poke string (b312 or 334) with teleport/vicinity blast at different stages (you can interrupt during any hit in the string) to throw your opponent's timing/predictions off.

- Use f24, which is very fast and leaves you at advantage. After a blocked f24, it's surprising how often you'll catch an opponent with a b312. I think it has to do with the pushback and advantage from from the blocked f24 making the reach and priority of b3 deceptive.

- Crossover jump punch.

- Throw.

- Go low with d3/d4, sweep, or 22b4.

- Ex lightning bolt--people underestimate how useful this can be if used SPARINGLY. People often forget about that second bolt coming up behind them, and even if they block it, you're at considerable advantage.

- 121--people often forget about this string, but it's really very fast and can occasionally be useful.

Those are just a few of the main ones off the top of my head.
 

DanableLector

UPR DanableLector
I listed the few that use most frequently, I use f24 a lot but cant say that i've tried to follow it up with b312, but it sounds like a great idea. When i have a lot of meter to spare Ill use ex lightning bolt to finish a match, its great because people often don't realize its the EX version and get caught by it, and thanks to the stun, you can hit them with an electric fly.
 

zaf

professor
if i am not mistaken, on characters except for the ninjas,quan chi and kabal, if you end a block string with vicinity blast this is a frame trap. i seen this in the living guide. I do use this as well and it works wonders. But if i am wrong sorry and please correct me.

If this is viable and does give ou advantage, id say do another block string to open them up and go for another trap. I would compare this to kung laos low hat loops in terms of usage
 

shoshinsha

Apprentice
The Vicinity Blast pressure is an excellent tactic. I basically just remember that I can't use it on ninjas who've never been Sub-Zero (it works on Sub-Zero, Cyber Sub, and Noob Saibot), as well as Kabal in the corner. It doesn't work on Quan Chi either, but Raiden destroys Quan Chi anyway.
 

zaf

professor
yes exactly shoshinsha. And if you want to use the frame trap on any character at all without a problem, just use EX-vicinity blast. This covers all the ninjas and kabal and quan chi anywhere on screen
 

DanableLector

UPR DanableLector
With the patch comming soon on raidens vicinity blast, is it even worth adapting that to my game? Im trying to level up my pressure game with raiden, ive never really used the Vblast frame trap.
 

shoshinsha

Apprentice
I'm not sure exactly how much the advantage on it is being reduced. That will tell a lot. At absolute worst, I wouldn't expect them to make it any less than even on block, which still makes it better than most of Raiden's other options for ending a block string. And it also gives the advantage of a high/low mixup in the sense that your opponent can try to duck and punish the VB, but if you instead choose to continue the block string into an overhead hit, they get opened up for combo.

In short: yes, probably still useful, though less so than previously.
 

zaf

professor
Kabals block sting and nomad dash cancel leave kabal and his opponent on neutral frames.Meaning both players can act at the same tme. From what tom brady has said, after the vblast trap it will be close to neutral frames(with raiden still on a slight advantage it seems). So this will still be very much usable in the future I believe.
 

shoshinsha

Apprentice
That's definitely true, zaf, though there's no denying that it's going to change how it's used. One problem Raiden has that Kabal doesn't is that Raiden's strings are generally quite slow, and his specials (aside from VB) are unsafe on block. So Raidens are going to have to adapt to this new situation, probably by making greater use of f24 and 121, as well as threatening with either superman or teleport more intelligently. Right now, VB gives such ridiculous advantage that you almost don't have to think about what you're going to follow up with, since most anything is likely to shake out in your favor.

That's ok, though. It wouldn't hurt for Raiden players to start having to work for their wins and gain a reputation as intelligent players.
 

DanableLector

UPR DanableLector
Well i hopped on the raiden bus a little late, so i didn't have knowledge of the trap. I use the hell out of f24.. what strings would be good to use Vblast after? 121? B312?
 

WhooFlungPoo

Apprentice
I don't think i've ever seen a raiden use vicinity blast trap. I know I have not unless i have no clue what it is. So I don't think this effects me, or alot of people.
 

DanableLector

UPR DanableLector
So should I be using the trap as a way to make unsafe strings safe on block (against the correct characters)? or is it an effective tool for relentless pressure? I feel like a noob or something because Ive never seen it in use .. although i was aware of it.
 

shoshinsha

Apprentice
Generally, you want to use VB (provided you're fighting an opponent it works on) in conjunction with the b312 and 334 strings. The reason for this, aside from just keeping you safe and giving you frame advantage, is that those strings are slow and don't give Raiden any particular advantage on block. Moreover, it creates a guessing game, since the only way your opponent can counter them aside from just taking the chip and waiting for an opening, is to guess and duck the VB and then punish (usually with uppercut). However, all hits of the strings can be special canceled, so you can insert the VB anywhere (or a teleport, or whatever, for mixup). So if you do b3~VB, b31~VB, 33~VB, etc., but then you actually finish the full string (which ends in overhead), your opponent has to guess when there'll be an opening to duck and when ducking will cost them 30%+ of their life bar.

Right now, you can do a lot after VB. f24 is the fastest, and usually safest option. In fact, I'm not sure if anything can interrupt it if you have good timing, but if so, it's only the very fastest stuff. 121 is also a good option, since it's very fast, but the first two hits are duckable, so you're taking a risk. You can also use b312 after VB, not because it's fast (it's not), but because it reaches a deceptively long distance, and if your spacing is good, you can catch your opponent that way. One of the series I use most often is to do some block string into VB and follow it with f24. If that hits (it often does), you can link in a superman (or a 40% combo in the corner). If it's blocked, I'll throw out a b31 (with or without 2 at the end), because the combination of blocked VB and blocked f24 pushes them quite a ways away, but not out of b3 range, which is very deceptive. Also, in general, b312 is a good follow up to f24, though it's not 100% safe.

Keep in mind that the main thing that makes the VB dangerous is the same thing that will still make it dangerous after much of the frame advantage on it is lost: the mixups. Don't just use the same sequences, like the one I listed above. Throw in teleports, throws, low pokes, and even armored ex moves if your opponent is poke-happy. If I have the meter and life to spare, sometimes I'll even end a string in an ex lightning bolt to bait out counters, since even if I take a hit, the second lightning bolt will come around and tag them in the back, allowing me to combo.

I should note that a good chunk of the above comes from stuff I learned from TomBrady's guide and then expanded through my own play experience, so major cred goes to him for being an innovator.